Ungrateful teens, but with added complication

[avenueq]

Dd's are 17 and 15. I can honestly say that I do everything I can for them, while having tried not to spoil them. So they want for nothing materially, but they haven't got the latest or most expensive stuff. They don't have to do a lot around the house, but are expected to help here and there. If they want to go out, I will always try to facilitate this, but they don't have too much on. We have been on many holidays but nothing too fancy. Every school trip they wanted to go on they've been allowed to go on.
They have a younger brother who is 12 and is both physically disabled and on the spectrum. This means there are things we cannot do as a family, and his moods can affect the family dynamic. Again I have tried to mitigate this by whenever I could doing things with the dd's alone, or dh doing the same. I do ask them to help out with ds, but not on a regular basis at all and only eg "babysitting" him when they'd be home anyway.
Recently with the dd's growing up they have not spent as much time with ds as before and while I accept that to some extent as normal I have tried to say to the dd's that they should maybe make more of an effort with ds than they would with a "normal" sibling because his world is small, he doesn't have any friends and he loves them very much. We have now fallen out because they have again made it clear how much they resent me making them feel guilty when I say they should sometimes spend time ds, and how little effort I make to understand how hard it is for them to have a sibling like ds. For the first point - it annoys me because that is one of the only demands I ever make on them, for the second point it upsets me because I just don't get what hardship they are suffering. There has not been a single instant ever when ds has stopped them from doing anything they wanted. But still they say they have it uniquely tough. When I point out what other families have to endure they say it's unfair to make that comparison.
Tonight I lost my rag and told them to "check their privilege" and to finally appreciate how lucky they are, but then just stormed out. I am not getting the vibe that they are taking this on board in any way.
Where do I go from here - have I spoilt them after all or do I need to be more understanding?

Yes and they get lots of that. Trips into town, café visits, even holidays without ds, all the time.

If you tell me that is too much fine I'll have to rethink OP I think you have been told it's too much quite a few times but you don't want to accept that or rethink.

I am listening and I am rethinking, though reading the thread it's not been unanimous.

avenueq in your OP you describe asking them to take on responsibility for your DS's emotional well-being and quality of life because his world is small. You are backpedaling in your last post, but in your openning post you describe how they say you make them feel guilty.

It does seem that you are asking them to shoulder a lot of emotional responsibility, which is more stressful for most people than physical care.

OP it's hard to see things for someone else's point of view and it feels like for so long you felt like you have played your part and done all the right things and you have blamed your dds for being selfish and ungrateful that you are finding it hard to see that you might be expecting too much from them - sure they can sit with him once a week but the quality of their reluctant engagement will be poor and possibly do more harm than good. You are trying to push water up a stream.

Half an hour is to much, yes. And baking cookies and chess take way more than half an hour anyway. If you are worried about ds why don't you take him out to an activity? There must be some activity, meeting or support group you could go to.

op i dont mean trips or holidays - just listening, attention

They accuse me of it but I don't think they are right, though I do think they can be encouraged to appreciate that while it's not easy for them, which I acknowledge frequently, it's not a patch on how tough life is and will be for ds.

Expecting your DDs to do household tasks (such as loading dishwasher) is perfectly reasonable. Asking them to babysit DS occasionally is reasonable (provided it is an ask, not demand, and agreed in advance).

Insisting that they spend their free time with DS is really unfair. You can't insist they act as his friends, and forced socialising with emotional blackmail thrown in will completely backfire.

LittleBook again, lots of that

you can't force it op, special needs or not

though I do think they can be encouraged to appreciate that while it's not easy for them, which I acknowledge frequently, it's not a patch on how tough life is and will be for ds.

This is a huge problem! You aren't actually simply acknowledging their difficulties, you are comparing their lives to DS. They will never be deserving of sympathy, because DS has it worse.

Personally, i would up their list of responsibilities in the home. More regular, higher expectations and some chores that are specifically theirs. In the extra time you gain, take your ds on more social opportunities. In time, you mght want to offer to let you dd take ds to the social event or to do the list of ‘wednesday night chores’.

countdrac has a great idea, they can bond with each other while you take ds out

We have now fallen out because they have again made it clear how much they resent me making them feel guilty when I say they should sometimes spend time ds, and how little effort I make to understand how hard it is for them to have a sibling like ds

From all you’ve said here I think they’re justified in saying you haven’t really understood how hard it is for them to have a sibling with his disabilities. They’re dealing with it every single day. It’s difficult every day. The kind of disabilities he has dominate family life. On top of that you want them to share in the care and emotional burden too. And you are trying to guilt them into it.

I read a statistic once that disabled people have about 20-30 connections in their life. NT people have several hundred - their friends, teacher's, classmates, neighbours.... he will be more isolated. And I think we all agree his sisters' are not entirely responsible for his happiness, but a little kindness would go a long way.

What do they have in common/do together? Are there games he likes that they will play with him? Does he like to go for a walk with them, read with them etc?

Have you tried suggesting a specific task - can you read with Johnie for 15 mins, can you play a game of uno. I would have a chat with the girls and ask they each think of one thing they can do with him a day, just in respect of how limited his opportunities are - but they can plan when to do it... not spring it on them as they are settling into book.

Have you read the book "siblings without rivalry" it's very good and includes the issue of having a disabled sibling.

You seem to be very focused on how they feel about their brother. You can't dictate how they feel, plus as has been mentioned they are typical self-centred teenagers with the added complication of a disabled sibling.

They cannot make the connection between the lives that they have now and the life of their brother in the way that you can as their mother. That is ok and normal to an extent in their situation. There is no connection in their mind between their material/social advantages and the amount of time they spend with their brother, nor should there be.

They sound like they need guidance on how to spend time with their DB - focus on practical things they can do together. The empathy and emotional connection will come.

I totally get where the OP is coming from and it’s ridiculous to read from this thread that she is trying to get the teenagers to take on responsibility for their younger brother. I think all she is wanting (forgive me if I’ve got this wrong OP) is for just occasionally the teenagers to show a little kindness to their brother.
I feel sad when my own teenager is unkind or unthoughtful and I know everyone keeps saying ‘it’s just how teenagers are blah blah blah’ but I do understand it is just very disappointing.
But, sadly, I have no idea what the solution is.
Not all teenagers are like this, my own niece has a sibling with severe additional needs, she has always been incredibly kind and helpful towards him, it hasn’t held her back in life at all, just got into a top class uni with outstanding A level results, and managed a full and exciting social life, travel, part time job etc etc

I get that it’s not always easy to have a sibling with SN, but they’re laying it on very thick there.

I have a DD with SN and I’m part of a parent support group for families of kids with additional needs. We often talk about the impact of a sibling with disabilities on an NT child, with respect to parents’ time etc., so we all endeavour to spend quality time with our SN and NT kids individually, as well as together.

You’re already on that page.

Without exception though, our NT kids treat their siblings with love and respect, and if they do slip up, they are reminded.

It isn’t easy, but you aren’t asking a lot of them if you’re only asking for 20-30 minutes each a day.

It isn’t easy, but you aren’t asking a lot of them if you’re only asking for 20-30 minutes each a day. I think that is an awful lot each day!

Really? In perhaps 16-18 waking hours?

DS is 18 and has always spent time chatting or playing with his sister, who has SLD. Sometimes it’s as easy as just sitting and watching her favourite programme or film together. Once his girlfriend became an almost permanent fixture, they progressed to baking.

If they treat it as a chore, it will feel like one.

Perhaps they feel sad or guilty or sorry for DS that he has the life he has. You could dwell on this as a family member and be sad permanently or you could not dwell on it and feel selfish. Saying thei should help improve his life is a bit unfair. I think once they are more mature and left home they will see things differently.
If you grudge the lack of gratitude for all you do perhaps rearrange your life and priorities a bit.

It’s perfectly normal for older siblings to not want to spend time with younger children. I think you need to untangle a few different things here.

1. the older two should be doing normal household chores - dishwasher, washing up, laundry, cooking a meal each once a week. That is a perfectly normal thing to require of them. If you don’t already then you should set up some kind of chores rota.

2. your son and his lack of friends. Don’t address this by trying to get his older sisters involved. It won’t work and it is unfair to ask it of them. Instead you need to focus on your son, taking him out to activities, inviting people over and so on. Put the time and energy that you save by getting the girls to do some chores into building up your son’s social life.

3. I’m sorry but you do sound a bit like a martyr and you also don’t sound as though you want to hear that forcing your daughters to spend time with your son is a bad idea. Let them have their lives. It’s hard enough being an older sibling and having responsibilities for siblings dumped onto you in the first place - I can’t imagine how much more frustrating it is when your younger sibling is disabled. They’ve only got a few more years at home, try and focus on giving them some space and not guilt tripping them about family activities. Normally kids need to spend some time forging their own way, they will reengage with the family as they get older again, it doesn’t mean you’ve lost them forever and I’m sure they will be there for their brother when he’s older and you’re not around anymore but you’d make that a lot more likely if you didn’t set up this oppositional approach to things where they’re forced into seeing him as an unwanted burden.

Teens are not the most understanding of people. They are selfish and self absorbed.
I'm not saying bad people just it's a difficult time in life to think about others and how it makes other people feel.
Some friends came with their 2 girls 12 and 2. Our son it's 12 too.
The older ones are best friends and refused to have the little one at any point in the evening. They didn't want to use any of their time to play with the baby.
I don't think you can persuade your dd's to spend time with their db. Younger siblings are seen as annoying and a burden and totally uncool.
Give them the choice house chores or time with their brother.
I know you don't want to think of your son as a chore for them but that's the way it is even with a able younger sibling.