Ungrateful teens, but with added complication

[avenueq]

Dd's are 17 and 15. I can honestly say that I do everything I can for them, while having tried not to spoil them. So they want for nothing materially, but they haven't got the latest or most expensive stuff. They don't have to do a lot around the house, but are expected to help here and there. If they want to go out, I will always try to facilitate this, but they don't have too much on. We have been on many holidays but nothing too fancy. Every school trip they wanted to go on they've been allowed to go on.
They have a younger brother who is 12 and is both physically disabled and on the spectrum. This means there are things we cannot do as a family, and his moods can affect the family dynamic. Again I have tried to mitigate this by whenever I could doing things with the dd's alone, or dh doing the same. I do ask them to help out with ds, but not on a regular basis at all and only eg "babysitting" him when they'd be home anyway.
Recently with the dd's growing up they have not spent as much time with ds as before and while I accept that to some extent as normal I have tried to say to the dd's that they should maybe make more of an effort with ds than they would with a "normal" sibling because his world is small, he doesn't have any friends and he loves them very much. We have now fallen out because they have again made it clear how much they resent me making them feel guilty when I say they should sometimes spend time ds, and how little effort I make to understand how hard it is for them to have a sibling like ds. For the first point - it annoys me because that is one of the only demands I ever make on them, for the second point it upsets me because I just don't get what hardship they are suffering. There has not been a single instant ever when ds has stopped them from doing anything they wanted. But still they say they have it uniquely tough. When I point out what other families have to endure they say it's unfair to make that comparison.
Tonight I lost my rag and told them to "check their privilege" and to finally appreciate how lucky they are, but then just stormed out. I am not getting the vibe that they are taking this on board in any way.
Where do I go from here - have I spoilt them after all or do I need to be more understanding?

One thing sticks out for me from your post - that their lives haven't been impacted but then you mention that there have been things that the family (as a whole) haven't done. Which to me means that there possibly ARE things they've missed? For example when you say that they've had holidays without their brother - were they with both parents or did one of you stay home? Has the choice of family holidays been impacted by your DS - for example, have you stayed in UK rather than go abroad? Some of this would impact on them.

I think the other point is (as the oldest of 3) I can't remember EVER being asked to do something with a sibling. Ever. Do you expect them to do things with each other at your request or just with their brother?

I'm asking for 20 to 30 minutes a fortnight - one dd per weekend

I don't think you are asking for too much. They should do it and at least pretend they're happy for 20 minutes to do so. What you can't ask is that they actually do feel happy to do so. Reward them for it, and make it a condition to get the reward they have to do the activity with good grace.

I think what your DDs are seeking is an acknowledgement from you that they do what they do because they want to make you happy. You however sound like you want them to do it because they are intrinsically motivated to do it because its 'the right thing/what good sisters do'. They don't appear to see it as you do and this in turn makes them feel they are letting you down because they aren't the people you believe they should be. Parental opinions count and hurt when they are disapproving. You risk creating an alliance of upset between your girls at a point when they naturally should be working out how they get ready to separate from parents anyway. Try and move away from the idea that one of you is wrong - there's no happy future in that. Focus on the value you each put on what one does for the other. Don't guilt them over the different life their brother is getting or the 'after all I've done for you' speech. Just ask for the help in your own right and offer an acknowledgement either in words or deeds when they do it. Of course my kids life in the same house as me and I shouldn't be the only one who picks up 8 bags of leaves but none of us really wants to do the job which I can see. If one of my kids falls in love with the latest whatever and it is in my reach to provide it - I do a deal I will get it for you in exchange for a job. Mostly they like that as they have a choice to do it or not. Try and protect all your relationships that means listening to what your kids are saying about how they feel about the way they are asked to do things or made to feel if they don't want to do it. Focus on that and explain the jobs still need to get done so how could it happen differently

You mention them baking cookies or playing chess with ds on Saturday or Sunday, out if gratitude to you, to give you a mental break.

You mention him having no friends and his world being small, and loving your DDs very much.

You say that they accuse you of making them feel guilty but that it isn't true.

Are you asking for at least an hour per week of taking the mental load, as your early posts suggest, or 20 minutes per fortnight as your latest ones do. Do your DDs know what you actually want?

If you're shouting at them to "check their privilege" and are unclear whether you want them to be his play workers/ in loco parentis laying on activities such as baking cookies or play chess or just watch TV with him for 20 minutes once a fortnight, perhaps your DDs think you are experiencing them to be his best friends/ play leaders and take emotional responsibility, rather than be siblings who occasionally slob on the sofa together.

It sounds as though they don't actually know what you want, which is stressful in itself, and as though what you want is a specific selfless state of mind motivated by gratitude to you for parenting better than you think you absolutely had to, which is deeply unreasonable.

*expecting not experiencing

I'm one of the fortunate mums I think. I have ds 23 and dd 15 who have autism and my older ones who have left home go out of their way to be friends as well as siblings to the younger two. They always have made time for them and spent time with them tbh. I've never demanded that they did but would have been disappointed in them if they didn't have empathy and compassion.
Dd1 is only 21 months older than ds with autism but I remember when she was only five years old explaining to her friend who came for a playdate that they should be kind to ds and let him play because he can't do everything she can.
Older ds and dd have their own homes, relationships and social lives but they still come home weekly to spend time with the younger two, they invite them to their homes, they take them to football matches, cinema, out for food, whatever interests them because they love them, they enjoy their company and they know it helps me too. No neither work in caring professions, they'd hate it but they care deeply for their siblings.
OP I don't think you expect too much at all but I don't think you will change things. I'd probably concentrate on building a social life for your youngest and if that leaves you with fewer resources and time for your older ones then so be it tbh.

I have 4 DC (all adult now). My 3rd has ASD and PDA and has truly been a challenge from the beginning -still is-. There is 9 years between my eldest and youngest with a 5 year gap between the first two DDs and the second two DSs.

Age gap has never prevented them being very close, in fact my now 30 y/o DD and my 21 y/o DS are the closest friends despite him being at uni a few hundred miles away. They intend to go into business together.

My often aggressive and sometimes violent ASD son has always been included with play when they were all little and now with concerts, trips to London, family time and being fully included. He is a member of the family despite his additional and challenging needs and his siblings have never made him pay for being born with difficulties.

Your DS needs his family, your DDs are his family and you have permitted them to exclude him from their lives which is IMO wrong. I do understand that it is tough on siblings with a disability in the family however, THIS is their family and they need to get with the programme and you need to stop excusing their entitled behaviour.

No DC is always going to treat their siblings with love and respect and this seems a very high bar to expect because one of the siblings has a disability. There are many extra issues that siblings who have siblings with additional needs have without expecting perfect behaviour from them at all times. That doesn't mean that just like any other DC unkindness and rudeness shouldn't be challenged but they are likely to have more reasons to feel unhappy than most DC in sibling groups.
Emotional blackmail was used a lot in my family around sibling care, I didn't realise it at the time but it has certainly impacted my relationship with my DM as an adult.

I can also relate to this situation as I have a middle dc with extra needs. I completely understand where you are coming from however I think you need to play the long game . To be honest I suspect you are right when you say that the additional needs are an’extra’complication, in that actually very few 15 and 17 year old girls would be overtly expected to spend quality time with an NT 12 year old boy. So it is different and there is no point in pretending otherwise.

One of the things which I have learnt now that my eldest is 25 is just how much he felt the future burden of responsibility and at 16 how resentful of this he felt. Like you we had always said that there was no expectation of responsibility and hAd financially provided for all eventualities as much as we could, however as ds1 said recently the fact is that if anything were to happen to us then he is the next of kin. He and his younger sibling would end up with some level of de facto responsibility, both for emotional and practical support, he wouldn’t just want to or be able to disown his sibling, and at 16 this prayed on his mind . Now he has come to terms with it more but the fact is that it’s a lot to process at 16 and now .

If it’s any consolation ours now spend much more time together but the teenage years were difficult, I can see now that in lots of small and different ways our lives were governed by dc2’s needs . How often do your girls get to do something with both you and your dh for example, how often are you able to do something spontaneous?

Have you sat down and had a full and frank discussion with your older children about how they feel without judging them . They are not small and I think you need to acknowledge that just as sometimes we may feel frustrated at the way life has turned out , they are also entitled to feel that way . It doesn’t make them bad people because they wish things were different

I love my dc to bits but that does not mean that sometimes I haven’t wished that things had turned out differently , sometimes I just want to be like everyone else and teenagers feel this a lot, I have felt cross and railed against it. That doesn’t make me a bad person it makes me normal and that is also true for my other dc.

We have tried to let their relationship develop naturally and now they are much closer . It you make something a duty then it’s unlikely to be a pleasure.

I agree with you, OP. He is their brother and he has special needs - if they can't sit with him and chat or play a game occasionally then they are selfish. I feel for him - most younger brothers/sisters look up to their older siblings - the thought of them rejecting him like that is really horrible.

Thank you all for your opinions, I really appreciate them all and take them on board. Certainly feels that it is not an open and shut case!

Happy to say peace has been restored. We all had dinner together and it was nice.

Would paying them work? As for babysitting duty?