keeping the family home once they go to uni - when is a good/acceptable time to downsize?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

Dh and I would really like to move to a flat in the city. Slightly hampered by the fact we have 4 school-aged children (just about).

The eldest will finish school in June this year. He wants to have a "gap year" (probably best not to get me started on that one) and then (probably) go to university. (He has done NOTHING about what to do in his gap year, and nothing at all re investigating courses, despite my best efforts.

Ds 2 will finish school in June 2019. (He's 17)
DS 3 will finish school in June 2022. (He's 14)
Dd is 9 and will finish in June 2027 (She's 9)

Obviously, the dc need a base during uni holidays. At the moment they all have their own room. We would be looking to buy a 3 bed-flat.

I really want to move! Really a lot. How long should we wait? Until dc 2 has started uni/finished uni? Or later?

I think renting has totally changed beyond recognition in the UK. The Buy to Let market and lack of social housing coupled with the easing of legistion around evictions means that accommodation is not only much more expensive but it can often be of s much lower standard and also much less secure. Often accomodatiom doesn’t even meet basic safety standards.

We'll, that is definitely different and shit. I know tenants have a lot of rights here, and are very well protected by law. Most of my friends rent. These are not normal, everyday problems here. What a shame. Why has so much gone downhill then?

Renting can be awful - big fees upfront, frequent checks on you in your home, insecurity and lack of rights as well as high rents. I will do a lot to help my children to avoid being exploited in that way if I can.

Interesting questions Ernest! I think it is different now in that saving for a deposit to buy at 26, while renting, would be pretty much impossible these days for all but the mega salaried - in London and SE that is, not necessarily the same outside those areas. That is true even for a couple, let alone a single buyer.

That is the trap that 20s and 30s are in now - rents are so high that it is very difficult to save the vast amounts required as a deposit. And for a graduate to be FTBing at 26 in London without parental money would be quite unusual these days! (May be different for people who started work at 18 as they have had longer to save.)

I think maybe also some of the parents of adult dc are better off than most equivalents were 30 yrs ago - more two income families, and property price increases - so they are less inclined to downsize, so the opportunity is there.

So an interesting point is that fewer young people than you would expect are leaving London to live in cheaper places - it is being made possible by living at home with parents. Perhaps the London economic predominance is being perpetuated by that, whereas if that accommodation were not so available companies would have to move out of London to attract workers who couldn't afford to live there!

On the other hand it was I who observed upthread that adult dc seem to be emotionally much closer to their dparents than 30 yrs ago - some students keep in touch with their dparents much more while at university for instance. So I think it is not such a horrific thought to live at home for a while!

My 4 DC are same ages as OP's.
We are thinking to downsize in 2 yrs to 3 bed house.

There's an emphasis on 'property' as investment now. Lots of pensioners have a buy to let, which is a fairly new thing. Government are not interested in renters as they don't tend to vote conservative.

So this seems to be a big cultural difference. I don't think young people, or tenants are in a perilous position like it sounds it has become in UK. Renting is very protected and do-able - the norm in fact! the vast majority of people do it! So the replies are largely from people who understand the hardships young people in the UK now may suffer. But here, it seems to be very very different. Obviously, if my children were destined to a precarious future in insecure and unsafe housing that cost €€€€€, then I wouldn't be considering letting them go to certain misery at the tender age of 23/24. Like most parents, I want the best for my DC. But luckily, things don't seem so bleak here as you tell me they are there
interesting lljkk... So I can move that moving date forward after all!

I've found this really interesting. Actually I was pretty upset last night by some of the responses. But now I understand how tough it can be now for young people in the UK, I understand why people were so shocked or negative. But believe me, I would not turn my kids out to suffer! Things are definitely better for young people here.

Sothat... It really struck me what you said. Because weirdly, dh got quite emotional about that exact point last week. I was never close to my mum, and that remains so. Dh was very detached from his dad as a kid and adolescent but became closer and developed a relationship as an adult. We were away with our DC at Christmas. Again, neither of us would have gone on holiday with or parents aged 18. We went out to the pub a couple of times with our eldest 2, and dh was really moved (proper emotional) about how much he enjoyed socialising with our sons, and that it was something he had never had with his own father. Interesting.

Good news for you then Ernest. You are making me consider moving to Germany now. Which city is it you want to live in - Munich?

It is really tough Ernest, I guess that's why the culture is shifting here in the UK. My brother, in his mid 20s, is paying £900 for a "bedroom" in a flatshare in an ex-council block London - in fact it's the lounge so there is no communal area apart from the kitchen so 4 young adults are paying that. His job only exists in London and he still has to spend c £9 a day on travel. He is on well above the average salary but it's still a struggle. He isn't a graduate but if he was he'd be repaying 9% of his income over £18k in student loan, as well as the usual taxes.

I wonder if allowing kids to live at home in the UK is because parents often don't save a lump sum in cash or fund DC all expenses paid through uni in the same way (although certainly a hefty contribution can be required) as other countries so it's a way of givit a leg-up without having the cash upfront?

Just outside. Munich is great! Brilliant city. I love Germany. I'm going for my citizenship test tomorrow.

Fingers crossed. I'm up studying. Really nervous. All our DC want us to do it. I was just back in UK over Christmas. England will always have a special place in my heart of course. All of our decisions whether to stay here or go back were based on the best interests of the kids. And (unlike my house choices) have all been spot on. We made the right choice staying here.

Lovely. You lucky thing. I had a very exciting adventure in the woods near Thalkirchen a long time ago!
Good luck with the test.

Yes, good luck with the test!

It is interesting hearing about young people in Germany and how renting is quite ok for them there. I'd say your approach to adult dc is how I imagine parents in the UK approached things 30, 20, even 15 yrs ago - when life was much easier here for young 20s in terms of housing costs! There used to be an acronym for it I think - adult dc who would not leave home - but I can't remember what it was. It isn't used these days, because we all understand why they won't/can't!

We haven't downsized from our 4 bed house and both our daughters left home years ago and are now in early 30s. I do not want to worry the OP but from experience it is my friends with boys who never leave home until either pushed or they get married unless they have to for work. My daughters could not wait to get their own places. We have turned the bedroom of our daughter who is local into a nursery/playroom for grandchildren now and our other daughter lives 100 miles away so still stays with us in her old bedroom.

I do think though that if you want to live in the city then once they are finished with school and away at Uni there should be nothing to stop you moving so long as they have a bed to come back to occasionally. There is such a thing as making life too comfortable for adult children.

I always wonder how people pay for their rented properties once they retire, in countries where most rent. People buy here partly to be sure of the security of a roof over their heads regardless of reduced income or one partner dying, and thus income halved.
Can you explain this Ernest ?

On the subject of closeness with adult DC.
I never went on holiday with my parents after age 13. I got the distinct impression that by 16 they thought job done now shoo. DH left home for uni at 17 and never went back.

Our DC at 20 and 22 still come along on holiday with us once a year (we pay of course ). We sometimes go out for meals as a family or to the odd pub quiz or day out. We love their company and they don't seem to mind ours.
I imagine they will both end up living a long way from "home" because we live in an area with limited employment prospects. So realistically I don't think they will call our house home much beyond their early 20s.

ErnestTheBavarian if you love your children and spending time with them then make sure you have the room to put them up, otherwise they won't want to visit because they won't feel welcome.

Staying in the same house isn't crucial, but making space so they're always welcome is important. Also what happens when they finally move in with other people and start to have kids? Would you like to have them come and stay with the grandchildren?

Fad your relationship with your DC sounds like mine with my parents. I'm now 30s and have moved away and have a lovely home but still LOVE going 'home' to my parents' house because we've always been so welcome. It's lovely taking DD too as she feels like it's a second home.

I think a lot of kids hang around home for longer because parents are a lot more liberal than they used to be. I wanted my freedom, as did many of my peers and life at home while not the strictest, still required me to live with a set of rules I found too restrictive.
Parents I know who have adult children allow them to come and go as they please, girlfriends and boyfriends are allowed to sleep in the same bed, they provide a laundry, cleaning and meals service - why would adult dcs ever feel the need to move out, they can have a great lifestyle while living with their parents well into their late twenties. That seems to be the intention of lots of parents I know - to keep their dcs at home for as long as possible.

Why don't you all move into the 3 bedroom flat now. You only have 4 kids. They can share bedrooms surely.