keeping the family home once they go to uni - when is a good/acceptable time to downsize?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

Dh and I would really like to move to a flat in the city. Slightly hampered by the fact we have 4 school-aged children (just about).

The eldest will finish school in June this year. He wants to have a "gap year" (probably best not to get me started on that one) and then (probably) go to university. (He has done NOTHING about what to do in his gap year, and nothing at all re investigating courses, despite my best efforts.

Ds 2 will finish school in June 2019. (He's 17)
DS 3 will finish school in June 2022. (He's 14)
Dd is 9 and will finish in June 2027 (She's 9)

Obviously, the dc need a base during uni holidays. At the moment they all have their own room. We would be looking to buy a 3 bed-flat.

I really want to move! Really a lot. How long should we wait? Until dc 2 has started uni/finished uni? Or later?

Why don't you rent a larger place in the city?

OP - I think it sounds like a move to the city when your DD is ready for secondary school sounds ideal. The older ones will be glad to be in the bustling city when they visit - if they move away - or will be close by if they stay in the city. As you say, there will be an extra room if any of them need a base. And if more than one of them need a base, then "where there's heart room, there's bum room". A move/less bedrooms doesn't in and of itself make a child feel unwelcome. My experience is having the family home sold in my first year of university and my parents separating. It took me years to realise how traumatic that had been but not because I lost my childhood bedroom but because both parents moved on very quickly to new partners where I felt (I was!) a visitor in someone else's home.Years later my DM got a place of her own and the spare room at hers still feels like a lovely homely place to be. And me and my Dsis have both spent time there in between living away. And had quite a laugh sharing for a few months in our twenties!

Ernest.. I understand and am quite shocked at how many people think life has to revolve around their children even when they are adults. I would also, if I was you, be frustrated with oldest child not actually doing anything towards organising his gap Yr or uni.
Though bring a parent is a lifetime commitment and role, I do not see it as my role to facilitate their lives for ever.
So many cite rent and living costs as such huge obstacles for our young adults so mummy and daddy must provide... How about these young people learn to live withing their means? If London is too costly then you can't live there, get a job in a cheaper area? A different city, go abroad... I also have seen with my dds and dsds and their friends that they want to move out but expect the same standard of accommodation that they have at home and when their flat share is not like in the movies they give up and want to live with us... Very snowflake ❄

My dp and I got together when Dd1 was finishing uni, dsd 1 was Yr 1 uni dd and dd2 just started a levels.
We bought a 2 bed flat in central London and a big house in Cornwall.
Our plan was always to live in Cornwall when retired. I could wfh so in uni holidays I was there with the girls and we variously stayed in flat with girls coming and going.

Could you do something like that when eldest two gone to uni or gap yearing?

When they are at uni they will be back A LOT.

I'd say the minimum you need is a bad (not sofa) for every child who is at university or younger. And remember that they could be back for up to 3 months in the summer.

Ideally a room for every child who is at university or younger.

It would not be unreasonable for them to be expected to live elsewhere once they have finished university.

Those beds/rooms don't have to be in the same place you are now, but they do (IMO) have to be available.

Relevant song

Also this: are you sure you want to live in the heart of a bustling city when you are retired?

When you're retired is the PERFECT time to be in the heart of a bustling city. You have lots of spare time, there's lots to do, if you're lucky retired people get free or discounted public transport.

Well I didn't get my much wanted lovely flat in the city either. Have just moved back to the UK after many years overseas and although quite close to the "Big Smoke" had to settle for a house in the subs. DD who has been working and living in the big city has decided to move 'home' as we are now within commuting distance (so there goes the spare room). DS will go to uni in October but as PP mentioned uni accommodation can be pretty dire so we will keep his room too. If your DC are close to you and DH and their siblings , they will still want to have a place where they can all chill out together.

We will probably hang around until the dcs have settled at Uni before taking off on world travels, we'll play it by ear, will hold onto the family home though - we will have room for them, wherever we go, they know they are always welcome and their flights to wherever we are will be funded by us...but they are also expected to develop a bit of independence. Doesn't seem to be a popular approach on here but we have travelled a lot with our kids and they have the wanderlust too, they wouldn't expect us to sit around waiting for them to come home.

Expat... Ummmm... Your dd was perfectly capable of living independently before you moved back, why did you not just buy your longed for flat and move in....and your dd would have carried on doing what she already was?

I love my dc and dsds but really am not going to spend my whole life making choices based around their 'wants,'

If they need a home with me, they will always have one, but I mean if have serious mh or physical health problems, or literally bankrupt etc...but as adults it is their responsibility to manage their lives including accommodation.

Some very different views then. Yesterday people were wondering why I bothered to have kids in the first place, if I dared to want to move to a smaller place (still with spare room for them to stay in) in 6 years time, after they have finished university!
Today, I'm not so evil after all. phew.

Dd starts secondary school already in September, so no way would we be moving anywhere at all until at the very earliest 2019, but I would be wary of moving so soon, because I understand they will want to come home during the holidays.

I would not consider moving before ds2 has finished school, because we are 5 minutes from his school so it wouldn't be fair. And I wouldn't bother moving in 2019/2020, when we could do the move to the city-flat in 2024. I've put up with it this long, I can manage an extra few years

And yes, why on earth would we not want to move to the city?! I 10 years' time, we will both still be working. The move would mean that all 3 of us (dd, if she goes ahead with her current-preferred school, dh and I), would cut our commute from 40/50 minutes to 10/15 minutes. We wouldn't have to rely on the car, we would be close the the theatres, bars, museums etc etc. Lovely city, lots of green. Being closer to 60 than 50 won't make me enjoy these any less, in fact, I rarely get to enjoy them as I'm too busy looking after my dc!

Oh, and dh is not at all unsympathetic. The issues with the house are mine, not his. I don't want to discuss them with him, because there's nothing to discuss. I regret enormously 2 houses I could have had instead of this one. I get over it. Then something triggers it, and I torture myself all over again. But that's my issue. Like I said, I wouldn't move house when the dc are doing " A-Levels", and then it would only be a matter of 3 or 4 years (while they are at uni) until we could actually move. So I just need to stop myself torturing myself, suck it up, and try to look forwards.

Ernest.. I love living in the city so much.
Two dc who are doing a levels come and go, dsd lives pt with her mother who lives in London suburb where dsd had lived when her parents were together. My dd is away at boarding school so appears randomly for weekends. We made the biggest bedroom the 'spare' girls room, and have put a double and a single bed in there... So even older dsd is here too they do have a proper bed. I am lucky that girls all get on.
My oldest dd would have happily moved into the flat with us, but firstly she is in her 20's and had up to the point we bought the flat been flat sharing happily. Second I don't want kidults living with me thanks...
Her flat is not as nice as ours but when I was her age and starting out I didn't have a luxury en suite bedroom in a large garden flat in zone 1...

We chose our current location to benefit the kids - great schools, safe, lots of greenery, a really great place to bring up kids and while dh and I like it, we'd much prefer to live in a city - a few spring immediately to mind - we will move, they know that, they understand that.

I really hope we won't have brought them up to think even when they are adults we have to continue to put them first! I really hope they will be more independent than that!

Pollydolly, simple answer $$$$$$$

Trills, loved it! I'm having to control myself from sending it to my ds1 (evil) He really is a p-taker atm. Difficult 18 year old, desperate to finish school and explore the world, but doesn't want to actually work towards anything. And assumes everything will magically happen and work out well, with zero effort. A healthy dose of reality will do him the world of good! I bet he would then come back and appreciate Germany more.

Redjellybean, you're making me all jealous and wistful!

Pinkie, that was a lovely and thoughtful post. No, it really is just the house. I love my dh, my dc, my dog, my job. I'm happy in the area, I have a generally happy, comfortable life, with the usual stresses and strains, but on the whole I really have got nothing to complain about, and my adult life now is very happy and settled, compared to the miserable earlier years I had.

I am also happy that I have been able to bring up my 4 dc in a comfortable, loving, stable and happy home, where they know they are loved and supported. They have a good education, friends, freedom, travel, lots of international experience. We stopped moving once they started school, so even though the have moved, and are not in their home country, they have been in a stable place for years now.

I just messed up with this house. Dh doesn't feel the same. He's happy with it. I am prepared to wait all those years till I can feel happy and settled again, even though it seems unusual to you or maybe others. Despite what some posters think, or despite the impression I gave, I don't want to move / mess my dc about, unsettle them, or leave them without a home to come back to! I am prepared to wait till the time is right for them. I was just wondering how long the wait would be... My lovely dh is a city boy at heart (from London) so ultimately, when the timing is right, would love to move back to the city. He also is trying to carefully weigh up the best timing vis a vis the kids leaving home, needing to come back, coming to visit, grandkids (eek!) etc

And that's why I started this thread. When is the timing right? I've got lots of differing views, and actually, I'm really glad about that, even the ones which are so different. It has been really interesting.

Thank you all!

ps I do love my kids loads really!

Interesting thread. I was talking about a similar thing yesterday with my teen DDs (17).

We are in south London and I think it's much much harder for their generation to become independent. My DDs were stunned to hear that DH and I bought a beautiful flat when we were 22 and went on holiday to America that same year. On very average wages (printer and secretary at the time).

Their generation simply can't do that, it's very different.

Ernest... I know I am incredibly lucky, my dp does have a very well paid job (mine is well well above average but his is city level) plus he had a lot of equity so we were able to buy the flat and what will be our long-term home in Cornwall. We let out the Cornwall house some of the year to pay the mortgage on it.
Though I do not think I will ever give up having a crash pad in the city.
Your plans sound just right, when you youngest is older, she might prefer the city too

Dd has set her heart on a secondary school in the city. We practise the commute a couple of times. She's prepared to do that over the local school 5 minutes away that her brothers attend. She loves the buzz of the city. I think location has largely swung it for her, so you, she'd definitely be made up. Many of her friends also live in the city already, thought they are unlikely to go to the same secondary school so will probably fall by the wayside.

Luckily, for now at least, it doesn't seem to be so difficult for young people here in Germany. Like I said, many of my colleagues are late twenties, I have know them for about 5 years, so since early twenties, and none of them live at home. They all have their own flat or flat-share, mostly in the city. Like I said, renting is the norm here.

But then I don't know people with kids who are 18 - 26.

We got our first flat (also south London) when we were about 26. But my dh earned loads more than me. No way I could have afforded it on my salary, or if dh's salary was the same as mine.

Why not just get a house you like more where you are?
Uni accommodation is not "home" for DC.I've just dropped DC2 back at his uni house after 5 weeks at home and while he was keen to return to friends and studies he admits he hates the hovel house share. DC1 did three years away at uni and is now doing a masters at a uni nearer to home so is back here commuting.

I would like to think there will always be a home for them if they need it even if we moved house.

Is there really no option to make an interim move more locally? Do you own or rent?

I'd move to the flat when only DD is left at school, making it clear to the boys that they have a welcoming home base there too, always, even though it is smaller. The chances are, they'll do a lot of their holidays socialising with old schoolfriends in the city centre bars and restaurants anyway, so it'll be more convenient than suburbia even if it is a bit of a squash. The key is making it feel like "home" and clarifying that as long as you're alive it's always their refuge in the unlikely event of illness, redundancy etc.

Meanwhile, maybe the guys on the Property and DIY board can help you find ways to enjoy your current home more.

therejellybean I get it...however having been of 'no fixed abode' for most of their lives my DC played the emotional card of never having had a fixed home or school...and DH wanted a 'garage'....didn't quit get that one either. I just wanted somewhere ground floor for me and the cats

Haha... Expat... Cats wouldn't appreciate city centre... Museums and theatre wasted on them, except maybe the Andrew Lloyd webber musical!

My kids would always be welcome to come to me if they needed to. But I would also expect them to aim to be independent adults. I would like to think there will always be a home for them if they need it even if we moved house. I guess my kids would always have a home. I don't think they should always have the possibility of their own bedroom indefinitely, forever. There has to be a cut off point thought surely? Why should parents of adult children maintain a much bigger house than they need, also with the associated costs and work? Especially if the dc aren't actually there, but maybe one day something might happen... But maybe it won't. I don't want the hassle of cleaning and maintaining a 5 bedroom house forever.

They would always be able to come to me. But I don't think that at the age of eg 70 I would want to be buggaring about with 5 bedrooms just in case. And if they were in a difficult situation/life suddenly changed, meaning they needed to come back to me, I'd hope they'd understand that it would be a bit much to expect their own room and all creature comforts of their childhood, 10 years after they've left.

I reckon having their own room until they've finished FT education, then a comfortable bedroom and warm welcome available if necessary (till they can live like independent adults) is not too bad a deal?

And even though I am not happy in this house, I cannot see the logic in disrupting the entire family (when everyone else is OK with the house), plus the cost and logistics etc of moving 2 minutes down the road, for the sake of one person, for a few years.

It's different today than when we left home though. Me and my siblings all moved out at 18 and never really went back. But my nieces and nephews who are in their early 20s moved back after uni. Accommodation costs have gone up so much in relation to wages. Staying at home is the only way to save a deposit. My sisters eldest had just bought her own place at 25.

This is a genuine question. I don't live in UK, so don't know how it is there now. I also don't know people with kids that age.

But, real question, interested to hear opinions.

Is it really that different? Or is it, as someone already said, dc are maybe emotionally closer to parents, therefore more happy to /comfortable with staying around? Or maybe young people are used to comfortable living, and unwilling to experience a drop in living standards, and want to stay in the comfort of family home, possibly paying a fraction, if anything towards their living costs?

Was is so different 20/30 years ago? Or is it just our expectations were different (more realistic?) I didn't expect to be able to walk into a nice property that I owned. It wasn't possible for me or my peers to buy when we left school or university. It took us a few years, at the very least. And these years were spent in rented /shared accommodation, probably not that dissimilar to crappy student accommodation.

I didn't live at home until I could afford to actually buy. I lived in loads of crap shared accommodation. I, as with everyone that one I knew, didn't expect to move back home for x years until we could afford it. I was 26 when I was able to buy my first flat. So actually older than your niece, heateallthebuns. So I'm not sure it is so different? But like I said, I don't live in the UK, so don't know if life really is so hard for young people there. But I do live in Germany, where people do not expect to buy their home, and renting is the cultural norm, so in that respect, our perspectives are definitely totally different, regardless of how tough life is, or is perceived to be, for young people now, compared with 20/30 years ago,

It's very expensive to rent now and many jobs are rolling contract or uncertain hours. You can only get a mortgage with a huge deposit.
I lived in crap flats and houseshares in my 20s and had money left over to save, at today's rents I wouldn't have been able to do that.
Also student loans tend to hang over people and make them wary of taking risks now.