I think I've lost my son

[MrsGradyOldLady]

My 15 year old son moved to his Dad's a week ago. I'm absolutely heartbroken as (obviously ) I love him so much.

What started it all was that we were on holiday when his twin sister needed to find a toilet quickly as her tampon was leaking. I rushed on ahead with her to find one leaving the rest of the group behind - son, son's friend, daughters friend, my younger daughter, husband and another mother. My son came running up to me and shouted at me "Don't you think you show slow down since X can't walk very well?". I admit that I did snap back and said no - I needed to find a toilet for my daughter and I'm sure they could all cope without me for 5 minutes.

What followed was horrendous. We were all 8 of us sat at a picnic table with my son calling me a "fucking bitch" and a "fucking cunt" saying he hated me and was going to live with his Dad. I took him to one side, apologised for snapping and explained the urgency for the toilet. He continued with his angry and abusive language for the rest of the evening.

Since he got back he's started coming out with all sorts. I don't treat him equally to his sisters. I never listen to him. I bought his sister an I phone 6 but he got nothing (his Dad is responsible for his phone I'm responsible for his sisters and since he's lost at least 4 phones I can see his reluctance to get him a contract phone). He said (to his step mother) that whenever he asks to talk to me I say that I'm too tired. This has never happened - not once.

His father, rather than back next up has decided to "stay neutral".

My son has said he will only come home if I apologise for telling him off on holiday and agree to treat him equally to the girls and change my ways. How can I do this? He wants me to admit that he's my least favourite child which is simply not true. His stepmother told me I should be "the bigger person" and just apologise. I've already apologised for snapping but if I apologise for telling him off for swearing at me and not treating him equally it's just going to validate it in his own mind isn't it?

Son has agreed to go to one counselling session but has said if I try and manipulate the situation by lying then he'll walk straight out. He honestly believes his version of events despite the fact there were 7 other witnesses who all back my version of events.

I honestly think he's dug himself into a massive hole and is now trying to justify it by coming up with ridiculous claims over I phones and unfavourable treatment.

I have been struggling massively with my mental health since December. I admit that I've been spending too much time on my phone - this is something the others have also pulled me up on so I've agreed to stop this. I got to the point where I was having suicidal thoughts and have now been put on citalapram but it's not working yet and I just cry all the time over the slightest thing.

I can honestly hand on heart say I treat them equally. When I upgraded my daughters phone contract it cost an extra tenner a month so I increased his spending money by the same. I admit I've been a but "absent" from everyone due to the mental health issues and having been doing enough fun stuff with them such as days out etc so he does have a point there but none of this is directed solely at him. They've all 3 been affected.

His sister thinks he just wants to stay with his Dad because he can do what he wants there - stay in bed until 3pm, them play on his x box all day. No chores. No rules. I do wonder if he's depressed also as obviously it runs in the family.

I just don't know what to do.

Yes I think our relationship will end up stronger as we understand each other more now and we've still got the counselling sessions to go though.I had cbt years ago and it was so helpful. I just stopped practising the techniques though which is probably why I got ill again.

His twin sister is also struggling with anxiety - I think it started when she was doing her mocks so I'm going to take her to the same counsellor. I see it as giving the brain a bit of a service and very beneficial.

Just seen your update - sounds very encouraging, well done everyone!

Hmm counselling went shit. I've just paid someone 45 quid to remind my son why he hates everyone when we'd done such a good job of sweeping everything under the rug.

Son has told his twin that he's always hated her and always will so obviously she's not very happy. Has now said she wants nothing more to do with him.

Plus he's been deliberately goady to me regarding politics. He deliberately brought up subjects that he knew we disagreed on. I said it was perfectly normal to disagree with your parents on politics but apparently he never disagrees with his father on such things. The whole time we were together my ex knew jack shit about politics but apparently he's now found time (on top of his 100 hour a week job) to research all these subjects that me and my son disagree on. Which is quite admiral really. Or horse shit -one of the two.

And in no particular order these are the subjects we've argued about:
Capitalism
Feminism
Trans Rights
Overpopulation of the world
Socialism and the need to provide for weaker members of society

And apparently I'm wrong about all of it and know less than a 15 year old boy in all of these subjects.

Can I just scream? AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Reminds me of this picture 2.bp.blogspot.com/-UdirLCUb01M/Uv1FJ6K6sII/AAAAAAAARNk/54wK9Myxitc/s1600/teenagers.jpg

I would stop discussing stuff with him my dd and her dad drive me nuts with their debates and of course you know nothing about anything anyway

OP you have done nothing wrong, I must admit your post hit a nerve with me as my son who is older, texted me the exact same thing last night, called me a f'ing C@#t, I've never loved him, always palmed him off and his nan was his mum, etc, etc. Not true btw, I also am a single parent who had to work.

I can't deny it bloody hurt, but I just txt him back, and I know that I should have been the bigger person, before I get flamed, can I just add this is not the first time he has called me all the names under the sun, and kicked off because things don't go "his" way. I just txt him and said "Fine if you feel that way, why don't you fuck off!!" I then refused to answer anymore of his messages, and I thought he would come home and start smashing the place up like he does, but no not this time, I think I frightened him, because I don't normally do that. I have also told him that anymore of his outbursts, and he's out and I mean it, I've had enough.

So take back the power from your son, and let him go, he'll soon change his mind, staying at dad's he may feel like he won't have to do anything, however if it's permanent I can't see his dad putting up with that behaviour for long.

I have to say I think some of this is completely normal.. I assumed my parents new nothing because they were old..The difference been your son and myself is he has an opt out..He can go and live with his Dad.

I think you need a whole new approach to this..He is on the edge of been an adult ( though lots still to learn) . As adults we know people who we completely disagree on whether it is to be parenting, politics, lifestyle choices..We have to find a way to work round them. With your Ds you have to let him develop his own opinions.. Don't bother to challenge him.. He will also not enjoy goading you if he doesn't get the response he is looking for.

I think the fact you use terms sweeping under the capret do suggest there are issue to be dealt with.

Therapy takes time, it intentionally stirs things up, and can leave people feeling very emotional or vulnerable.

What happened between the session and him seeing his sister again?

I have to agree some adults are pig headed and argumentative never mind a 15yr old who is a know it all

After the therapy we went to get him new school trousers and shirts. I told him to try them on (they were from asda as we passed on the way but the changing room was closed) and then if they fit I'd buy him more online.

His TV has broke so I asked his sister to help him swap his TV over with the one in the kitchen which she did. Then he came back down to say everything fit and for me to buy more. Which is when they started arguing. She was winding him up and he was losing his temper so I told his sister to leave so we could order the clothes which is when he started goading me on feminism. I think in future I'll just say "yes you're probably right dear" because I can't be arsed having the same arguments again and again.

After we'd sorted the order out he went back upstairs which is when he told his sister how much he hated her. She was really upset (obviously ) and told him he needed to grow up as his behaviour was affecting all of us especially me. He kept telling her it was none of her business but she wouldn'tback down because it IS her business as it's her family.

Apparently none of this happens at his Dad's because his sister doesn't goad him there and he and his perfect father have identical views on every subject in the whole world. He's still saying I need to change and start treating him better and he wants to spend more time at his Dad's than with me. Yet this week for example I'm actually having MORE contact than usual.

I think he just can't be bothered catching the bus. And I'm not convinced about the therapy. I'll give it a go but it's going to be difficult as my son is never ever wrong.

I love that picture Peggy! I think I'll send it to him. Or not.

But therapy isn't about getting him to admit he's wrong and you're right. Perhaps your own therapist could give you some guidance on what to expect from him and how to support him?

You sound angry about his father, but don't you think it's telling that he feels he can fight you and not him? Who do you think is his safe space?

"She was winding him up" is telling. Do you think she could be jealous of the attention he's getting now?

Also, instead of saying "yes dear you're right", why not a few calming phrases over and over until he listens? "I'm not engaging with this. We have differing viewpoints right now but we're not going to argue. We're here to do X." And repeat?

I was more thinking the therapist was to get us both to admit to our faults. I might be wrong in my expectations though. I went to relate years ago with ex and that's how it was then but obviously a marriage is different.

I'm not really angry with my ex. Just sick of being told how everything is soooo much better there.

She could be feeling pushed out yes. She didn't set out to wind him up - she started by asking him how the therapy had gone and he was being "prickly" towards her so she started using phrases that she knew he'd react to such as saying "anger issues" in a sing song voice. So it was both their fault really but she carried it on for her own amusement.

I'm absolutely not going to engage on anything at all to do with politics, current events or feminism.

The first argument actually started in the car on the way to the therapist when we passed a housing development that's been built on greenbelt. My son said "sister thinks this development shouldn't be here, what do you think" . So a fairly innocent question really but when I agreed with his sister that I felt the same it then became about where housing should be built. And all my answers were wrong. There's nothing wrong with building on flood planes. Brownfield sites not an option. Taxing people who own more than one house is selfish and anti capitalism (because capitalism is the greatest thing in the world ever) and on and on. And there's no solution to overpopulation of the world. The UK is not the second most densely populated country in the EU and it isn't more densely populated than France or Spain. I should have just said "no I don't agree with the houses being built there without the infrastructure to support them" and just left it at that really.

When we got home he deliberately picked feminism to get a reaction. I don't want equality as women already have it. I want domination over men. And my views on trans men are offensive. And my views on the misogynist nature of the main religions are racist. It's very difficult not to react to all that really. I'm going to have to try harder though because it's absolutely pointless.

I think he does ask me some of these questions because his Dad won't know the answers. I read a lot so I'm more interested in the complexity of the world.

But my choice of newspapers is wrong. I read the Guardian (that's too left wing) the Telegraph (too right wing) the Daily Mail (gutter press) Huffington Post (he'd not heard of that one so couldn't comment.

His views on capitalism is just like listening to his father though. Everyone should just get off their backside and build their own company or climb the corporate ladder and earn 200k a year. Those that don't are just plain lazy. And we shouldn't have any immigration at all because the capitalist model does not actually need growth in order to sustain it.

The elderly should just carry on working and take out private health care and the sick and disabled should really have the foresight not to get sick or be born disabled.

I need to just smile and nod through gritted teeth. I know I disagreed with my own parents but I wasn't so interested in these things so it didn't come up as much.

I know it's incredibly frustrating but 15 year kids are allowed their own opinion. it may be the opposite of everything you believe in but that doesn't mean he isn't allowed it. You keep talking about whose right and whose wrong and I really think you need to stop these "arguments"

The discussions about building on green belt, yes he started the discussion, but if I were you I'd have said "I know we all disagree on this, let's not talk about it and get into an argument".
I really don't see the point in getting involved in discussions which you know will end up in arguments

The way he will see last night is that it was noisy and argumentative so he's completely right about wanting to stay at his dads.

I think there is far too much of who is right and wrong..

You don't need to say Yes you are right...Some of this sounds like he is looking for a response.. The we don't agree , lets agree to disagree, this subject only ends up in an argument seem a far better response..

He tells you his Dad is perfect as he knows you hate to hear it.. He is trying to make you feel bad.

the sibling stuff sounds like they wind each other up and maybe distance between them would help. Rather than can she help him. Putting them together..If he is trying to separate his twin sister will be someone he wants to separate from too.

If he thinks it is more peaceful at his Dad's does he need more solitary down time at yours..Playing computer games , watching TV, chilling out however he does.

I genuinely didn't think a discussion on building on greenbelt would end up also covering capitalism, world overpopulation and feminism. I'm clearly an amateur

He didn't want to go to his room and play games last night. He wanted to argue the toss with me. I did keep saying "can we concentrate on the issue in hand - do you want these shirts or these?" I think it was because he'd started offloading in counselling but he felt he hadn't quite offloaded enough. We've agreed to keep these type of discussions to our Tuesday therapy sessions.

Everything was fine again this morning and we were back to laughing and joking with each other.

It's just so bloody hard. I thought I'd nailed it when they went to high school and then hormones started. Nicely timed with my menopause.

Glad everything was calmer this morning.

Dd goes to counselling, when she first started she could be quite upset and grumpy afterwards. It stirs up so many emotions, it might be an idea to tell his sisters to be mindful that he could be a bit tetchy after these sessions, so to leave the teasing.

Yeah I think you're right - I will in future. I wasn't really expecting it this time. Especially since we'd had such a good day on Sunday, then he came home. I thought he'd got it all out of his system and we could just move on. I was wrong though. He thinks we need LOADS of sessions..

He must have found it useful then, that's great

Yes that's a more positive way of looking at it 😀

They're all back to being lovely again. Laughing and joking with each other and me. No politics. There was a hairy moment when I told my eldest daughter (who has food issues) that she MUST eat before going to the gym or her body would burn muscle instead if fat and my son corrected me. I admitted it was just something I'd overheard at work and couldn't remember exactly what happened but just that you need to eat. So argument averted quite nicely.

And now he's asked if we can download music together when the girls are in bed.

Why are people so complicated? He's so like me it's like having my own personality reflected back at me. Which rather than being helpful and insightful can actually come across more as being a "know all" 😀

Just been looking for the vac. OMG it was in the last place I would have ever thought to look. In my son's room as he's decided to actually clean his room.

What the hell is going on here? I think he's developed some kind of intermittent fault. Do you think if I leave him in "down" mode long enough he will reset? Or do I need to go for "restore factory settings " mode?

LOL at finding the Vac..
Sounds like a much better place today.. long may it continue

He must feel something in that way, because nothing comes from nothing.

Theres two sides to every story and maybe you need to take a step back and look at what's going on. Theres no way of knowing what he is thinking, but he is clearly angry at something. I would suggest leaving him until he wants to talk.