I think I've lost my son

[MrsGradyOldLady]

My 15 year old son moved to his Dad's a week ago. I'm absolutely heartbroken as (obviously ) I love him so much.

What started it all was that we were on holiday when his twin sister needed to find a toilet quickly as her tampon was leaking. I rushed on ahead with her to find one leaving the rest of the group behind - son, son's friend, daughters friend, my younger daughter, husband and another mother. My son came running up to me and shouted at me "Don't you think you show slow down since X can't walk very well?". I admit that I did snap back and said no - I needed to find a toilet for my daughter and I'm sure they could all cope without me for 5 minutes.

What followed was horrendous. We were all 8 of us sat at a picnic table with my son calling me a "fucking bitch" and a "fucking cunt" saying he hated me and was going to live with his Dad. I took him to one side, apologised for snapping and explained the urgency for the toilet. He continued with his angry and abusive language for the rest of the evening.

Since he got back he's started coming out with all sorts. I don't treat him equally to his sisters. I never listen to him. I bought his sister an I phone 6 but he got nothing (his Dad is responsible for his phone I'm responsible for his sisters and since he's lost at least 4 phones I can see his reluctance to get him a contract phone). He said (to his step mother) that whenever he asks to talk to me I say that I'm too tired. This has never happened - not once.

His father, rather than back next up has decided to "stay neutral".

My son has said he will only come home if I apologise for telling him off on holiday and agree to treat him equally to the girls and change my ways. How can I do this? He wants me to admit that he's my least favourite child which is simply not true. His stepmother told me I should be "the bigger person" and just apologise. I've already apologised for snapping but if I apologise for telling him off for swearing at me and not treating him equally it's just going to validate it in his own mind isn't it?

Son has agreed to go to one counselling session but has said if I try and manipulate the situation by lying then he'll walk straight out. He honestly believes his version of events despite the fact there were 7 other witnesses who all back my version of events.

I honestly think he's dug himself into a massive hole and is now trying to justify it by coming up with ridiculous claims over I phones and unfavourable treatment.

I have been struggling massively with my mental health since December. I admit that I've been spending too much time on my phone - this is something the others have also pulled me up on so I've agreed to stop this. I got to the point where I was having suicidal thoughts and have now been put on citalapram but it's not working yet and I just cry all the time over the slightest thing.

I can honestly hand on heart say I treat them equally. When I upgraded my daughters phone contract it cost an extra tenner a month so I increased his spending money by the same. I admit I've been a but "absent" from everyone due to the mental health issues and having been doing enough fun stuff with them such as days out etc so he does have a point there but none of this is directed solely at him. They've all 3 been affected.

His sister thinks he just wants to stay with his Dad because he can do what he wants there - stay in bed until 3pm, them play on his x box all day. No chores. No rules. I do wonder if he's depressed also as obviously it runs in the family.

I just don't know what to do.

All you can do is be there and tell him that you love him but there are certain behaviours that are not on, and until he learns that, he is better off staying at his dad's.

If you let him carry on like this he will turn into a really nasty, misogynistic piece of work.

This. He may not be being EA at the moment but these behaviours in a grown man would be, 100%. So he needs to learn now that you won't stand for it, otherwise he will go into adulthood thinking he can treat his girlfriends this way.

Stop apologising. Let him stay with his dad for a while. You can guarantee that the boundary-less Easy Street life he thinks he has there will be over within a week or two, as stepmother gets irritated by his bolshiness and the reality starts to sink in that getting the bus to school is a pain and Dad's almost never around. At that point you can remind him that the door is open and you love him very much, but certain kinds of behaviour are unacceptable and he needs to know that.

Don't let him come back if it's all on his terms.
My DS who is 14 had a weird episode the other day which coincided with a big influx of hormones (evidenced by the usual signs) I had to calm him down by telling him the chemicals in his body were playing tricks on him and it was all normal. Puberty is tough for parents. You think you know your dc inside out and the boundaries are set between you and then everything changes. You have my complete sympathy.

You are right manatee we've had many many discussions about why it's unacceptable to ever hit a woman. I've said that of course a woman shouldn't hit a man either, but if that happens the absolute MOST he should do is restrain her. He thinks this is sexist. I've explained until I'm blue in the face that the fact is, a man is considerably stronger. It is a huge worry I admit. I know his sister winds him up but all I can hear is his voice bellowing at her calling her "fucking" this and that and he does sound aggressive. She does annoy him but she's just not aggressive at all.

When I've spoken to him this week he's still using foul language. When I asked him to stop swearing he said "I'm not fucking swearing AT you - I'm not calling you a fucking bitch or anything I'm just saying that you're being fucking unreasonable ". So that's OK then.

His father will have heard all this so obviously this is a totally acceptable way to talk to your mother.

I'm just going to leave them all to it. My son can continue his massive teenage tantrum until we've had however many counselling sessions it's going to take. And his father and step mother can quite frankly go and fuck themselves because I'm sick of the lot of them. And when he starts effing and blinding at them (which he will once they actually have to start interacting with him) I'll take great pleasure in saying that perhaps "they should be the bigger person and apologise".

In fact no I won't say that. I'll get my husband to ring my ex and he can give them parenting advice. I'm sure that will go down well.

Good plan. This does call for 'tough love', otherwise he's going to keep throwing his weight around. It's not unreasonable to ask him to not swear or hit. Stick to your guns. Reassure him that you love him, but that you don't love his behaviour. His dad doesn't get to always be 'good cop'.

I think that's the right decision OP.

I'm sure things will look different in a couple of weeks. You haven't 'lost' your son. Take a bit of a break and some breathing space and I'm sure he will come round as will your exH when he realises what your DS is like to live with 24/7.

I'd leave him there. At some point he's going to start on his dad and step mum and then perhaps their attitude may change a little.

His behaviour is not acceptable. If that was a partner acting like that everyone would be telling you to get him out permanently. He's your son but he's 15 and quite honestly is acting like a complete knob. He wants an apology from you for your behaviour? You snapped, you said sorry. That's normal behaviour in this hour, I've got a teen and a pre-teen and it's not all fun and games but mostly we get over it pretty quickly. Your son is holding you to ransom because he knows you want him home but the problem is that if you did give in and he did come home, this would escalate until he was pretty much running the house by kicking off every time something doesn't go his way.

Let him stay with his dad. Let him call his step mum a fucking cunt. Let him call his dad a wanker or whatever. Let them deal with all the day to day shit you've been dealing with and then let them come back to you and apologise for being completely unreasonable.

You haven't lost him, of course not, but he's being extremely difficult and I agree with lots of posters that leaving him where he is is the way ahead right now. You just need to keep the door open with the 'I love you, but swearing at me and hitting people is not acceptable. Come home whenever you're ready to respect that.' stuff. I guarantee that ex H and his stepmother will start to get hugely fed up once they see the reality of his behaviour in their house the whole time. There will come a day when you get to play nice cop! I can't believe - well I can, but FFS - they haven't been more supportive of you over this. In the meantime, concentrate on looking after yourself and your girls.

Oh I hope so!

It's just that I know 2 people who's sons have never returned (similar behaviour really) and someone else who's daughter took 6 months to return. So it's a dangerous tactic.

You're all right though. I have no choice really. I can't have him speaking to me like this as if that's how he speaks to his mother he probably also speaks to others the same way.

Very frustrated that I wasn't backed up. What if it had been drugs? Or theft? I should be allowed to discipline my own son, and if it had been the other way round I would have backed his Dad and taken him back home. All this pandering to him has made him more stubborn and has done him absolutely no favours whatsoever.

I'm not so sure. Ex is VERY stubborn and he would NEVER EVER admit that I'm right now he's actually told me I'm wrong.

My best hope really is that my son gets sick of catching the bus and that the counselling helps. If my son starts displaying this behaviour at his Dad's there is no way I'll get to hear about it. Not unless my daughter tells me - which she probably wouldn't as she's very loyal to both of us.

I did think we were all friends. I actually counted him amongst one of my best friends and he was one of the first people I confided in when my depression got really bad. So he knows how close to the edge I was and he's just basically kicked me while I was down.

I'm so sorry, OP. I Don't have teens (yet), and don't have any practical advice, but I do think you are a very good, level headed, loving mother.

Try and give yourself a break here. Your son is safe, warm and looked after by people who care about him. It's not great, but it's okay. Keep talking/emailing, whether he wants you to or not. It will get better.

Do school know what's going on? Might be worth an email to the head, just to fill them in.

No his wife is very very submissive. She's actually a good person and means well but she was horrible to me on the phone. I don't think she actually meant to be though. Just was very insensitive. I don't think the word "no" is in her vocabulary.

They will massively struggle as they both work long hours (her from home) and she doesn't drive. But there's no way they will admit that. At most they'll say that my son needs his mother but there's not a chance in hell they'll admit they're struggling to cope.

Yes I spoke to the head of year who takes care of pastoral care. They gave a school counsellor but it's a drop in service so unlikely my son will go. He said they could refer to cahms but pretty pointless as the waiting list is 18 months and he wouldn't fit the criteria anyway and would be almost an adult.

I said I'd arranged private counselling and he thought that the best bet given NHS waiting lists. He said he noticed he's been scruffy - tie not on properly and shirt not tucked in etc. A few comments for lateness and homework not handed in on time but nothing out of the ordinary.

He said he'd keep an eye on things though and let me know if anything changes.

Thanks Nancy just feel like such a bloody failure. At least the other 2 still like me 😀

Let him go, let him kick around a bit, let them start to properly co-parent.

You say you're worried you're losing him - but him being in the house isn't exactly a win when he's like this is it - it's draining you all, including him. Maybe being away and having some more focused attention from his dad will help him too?

Make it clear you love him of course but draw a line on all the apologies now ... Remember you're training him in how he handles future fights too and learning that he can just threaten and shout to get his way won't help him in the end.

Also (and god I hate to say this so if I'm wrong I hope someone will be quick to slap me down) - treating kids as best friends as you say you have can sometimes screw things up. Is there any chance he may be feeling angry or pressured or vulnerable over what you've been going through too? That's NOT to try and make you feel shit or to say you're a failure - just to put another perspective on it.

You just seem to talk about being liked a lot, and that's sort of natural but also suggests self-esteem problems which your kids not responsible for fixing ... Being liked by them is great of course, and being friends in the long run is the goal - but part of being a parent or any kind of family means putting up with being disliked too, however irrational that dislike is.

Urgh, sorry if those ramblings weren't helpful...

No sorry I wasn't clear - I was referring to my ex and his wife when I said that I thought we were all friends.

Obviously, the older kids do know about my mental health issues as I've not been the usual person I am - I normally arrange lots if stuff to do and we go and meet people etc but I've been quite solitary for the past few months. I've tried to keep things away from them but when I'm crying because the cat litter needs changing it's kinda obvious somethings not quite right with Mum.

I do try and be a parent first and a friend second. I think it's their Dad who just wants to be "mates". I'm fairly laid back so I'm not always on their case but I do expect certain things:respect, homework, chores, no smoking or drinking etc.

But yeah you're right about the self esteem issues. I can't bear it when people don't like me. Even if I don't particularly like them!

I think the thing with separated kids is they have this opt out.. I am going to live with the other parent.

I do find it concerning when people say they are my best friend ( with their children) with mates you can advise but you can't then tell them what to do.

I think you as hard as it is need to give him a break from ..I wonder how much he is enjoying all of this..

I agree with the poster who says it is all on his terms..

No no it's my ex I was saying was one of my best friends. Not the children. We're not even friends on Facebook 😀

I would never tell my son how bad my depression was - sorry for the confusion!

Agree with AF

I've been thinking about this. It's about time your ex H (and his wife, as far as appropriate) started to do some proper parenting here. Surely the oh so cool, no rules environment won't last once they're stuck with his behaviour 24/7 and have him messing up their house. Parenting a teenage boy is meant to be bloody hard work, and your ex is about to find that out the hard way.

Also, OP, being a parent is not about being liked or being best mates. Your job first and foremost is to be a parent, which you are being. Sometimes it's all about making yourself unpopular in order to do a good job, unfortunately. Do you think ex H and his wife will want him there full time? I'm guessing not.

I think you maybe need to stop going round there every day, and give him (and them) a bit of space to experience the consequences of his actions and behaviour. I guarantee they start strategising about ways to get rid of him again, within a week! He's getting so much attention from you over this that it's probably perpetuating the situation. This is all new and exciting at the moment, but the inconvenience etc will start to grate on everyone over time. Step mum could obviously do without it, given that she 'thinks you should apologise'. Do not apologise for perfectly reasonable behaviour! This is a massive storm in a teacup, you've done nothing wrong, and if you grovel this time then you're setting a bad precedent. This will not be the last argument that you have with your 15 year old, and if you pander to his ridiculousness now then I bet he'll go flouncing off to his dad's every time you have a minor disagreement. In fact, I bet that's a common tactic for teenagers with divorced parents.

It sounds to me like a teenage version of the toddler tantrum. In a toddler, the advice would be ignore the bad behaviour, reward the good. Both your son and ex H seem to be desperately trying to dig themselves into an unhelpfully entrenched position, with all this 'you must apologise' stuff. I think your best bet is to try and avoid becoming entrenched, so that your son has got somewhere to go with it. You could say you're sorry he's so upset, for eg, but you can't apologise for treating them unequally if you haven't. If you did, he'd be using that one against you for ever. Tell him you love him, that you all miss him, that he's welcome to come home whenever he likes, but you can't apologise for something that isn't true, because you love them all equally.

I don't think the set up with the phones being different parents' responsibilities for different children is a good idea, actually - makes it more likely that they will be treated differently, and perceive unfairness. Given that you were careful to increase his pocket money, though, the argument over it is a nonsense.

Basically, I know it must be so hard, but I think taking a step back is in order for you at the moment. Focus on your girls at home, keep the channels of communication open and maybe pop and see him every few days. I'm sorry you're going through all this, it sounds really tough. Fwiw, my mum, who used to work with teenagers, always says they all tend to go off at this age, but that by the time they're 18, they come round and are lovely again! :-/