I think I've lost my son

[MrsGradyOldLady]

My 15 year old son moved to his Dad's a week ago. I'm absolutely heartbroken as (obviously ) I love him so much.

What started it all was that we were on holiday when his twin sister needed to find a toilet quickly as her tampon was leaking. I rushed on ahead with her to find one leaving the rest of the group behind - son, son's friend, daughters friend, my younger daughter, husband and another mother. My son came running up to me and shouted at me "Don't you think you show slow down since X can't walk very well?". I admit that I did snap back and said no - I needed to find a toilet for my daughter and I'm sure they could all cope without me for 5 minutes.

What followed was horrendous. We were all 8 of us sat at a picnic table with my son calling me a "fucking bitch" and a "fucking cunt" saying he hated me and was going to live with his Dad. I took him to one side, apologised for snapping and explained the urgency for the toilet. He continued with his angry and abusive language for the rest of the evening.

Since he got back he's started coming out with all sorts. I don't treat him equally to his sisters. I never listen to him. I bought his sister an I phone 6 but he got nothing (his Dad is responsible for his phone I'm responsible for his sisters and since he's lost at least 4 phones I can see his reluctance to get him a contract phone). He said (to his step mother) that whenever he asks to talk to me I say that I'm too tired. This has never happened - not once.

His father, rather than back next up has decided to "stay neutral".

My son has said he will only come home if I apologise for telling him off on holiday and agree to treat him equally to the girls and change my ways. How can I do this? He wants me to admit that he's my least favourite child which is simply not true. His stepmother told me I should be "the bigger person" and just apologise. I've already apologised for snapping but if I apologise for telling him off for swearing at me and not treating him equally it's just going to validate it in his own mind isn't it?

Son has agreed to go to one counselling session but has said if I try and manipulate the situation by lying then he'll walk straight out. He honestly believes his version of events despite the fact there were 7 other witnesses who all back my version of events.

I honestly think he's dug himself into a massive hole and is now trying to justify it by coming up with ridiculous claims over I phones and unfavourable treatment.

I have been struggling massively with my mental health since December. I admit that I've been spending too much time on my phone - this is something the others have also pulled me up on so I've agreed to stop this. I got to the point where I was having suicidal thoughts and have now been put on citalapram but it's not working yet and I just cry all the time over the slightest thing.

I can honestly hand on heart say I treat them equally. When I upgraded my daughters phone contract it cost an extra tenner a month so I increased his spending money by the same. I admit I've been a but "absent" from everyone due to the mental health issues and having been doing enough fun stuff with them such as days out etc so he does have a point there but none of this is directed solely at him. They've all 3 been affected.

His sister thinks he just wants to stay with his Dad because he can do what he wants there - stay in bed until 3pm, them play on his x box all day. No chores. No rules. I do wonder if he's depressed also as obviously it runs in the family.

I just don't know what to do.

I didn't know family therapy was hard. In what way was it a disaster for you?

I don't feel any anger at all. I'm just desperately sad. I don't think my son's angry anymore either. I think he's sad too. We both cried a lot.

You feel what you feel it's allowed and understandable. We all do our best for our children but we don't always have to be OK with it

Maybe a few 1to1 times with your son will help you both without dads and sisters around it can sometimes be a lonely place stuck in the middle of family he is maybe just needing a breather that doesn't mean you are to blame though

Thank you

I know he loves me and he knows I love him. He just can't cope in this house at the moment. He wants to be somewhere where he can just shut off and be left to himself. Whether or not this is good for him I don't know. I have to accept that I can't force him though. And u suppose as hard as it was to hear, Friday's conversation has opened the lines of communication.

I'm just gutted that me and the others are causing him to be unhappy because we all love him so much.

I think we could do with more family time. More things like going to snow zone or the cinema. Or even just playing board games or watching a film. I've allowed this to slip as I just didn't realise the extent of his feelings. It's hard though because I just get the shit times during the week when we're all too busy for anything so it's hard to find the time. I'm going to insist on more weekend time though. I'm pretty sure that he WILL come as long as I arrange something light that we can all enjoy together.

I so wish we'd had this conversation before it got so bad. At least I know now though so I can hopefully turn things around.

You know I read your meeting totally differently. I think it went well. I think the fact that you think it was as bad as it possibly could have been and that you don't think he's 'normal' (for want of a better word), speaks volumes.

He was open and honest with you - BIG pluses from a teenage boy. He cried in front of you - wow massive - he really showed you his vulnerability. Again this is MASSIVE for a teen.

I think most of the issues between you are actually the mismatch between what you want from your relationship with him (a friend basically someone to share things with) and what he wants, and he's feeling that expectation massively. He doesn't want a friend, rightly so - you're his mum not his mate!

Even him going to his dad's - he's still happy to see you, he doesn't hate you, he just wants peace and quiet that he doesn't get at home. But you've interpreted it as him rejecting you, and you losing him.

I think you've put a lot of the responsibility for your happiness on his shoulders. No wonder he wants a break!

Mainly came back to say sorry for mis-reading your earlier comment!

But I agree with Titchy above.

Right now you need to separate your feelings a bit, detach and let him be his own person without weighing down your need to be liked on him. Work on yourself and liking yourself a bit more - that validation shouldn't be coming from your kids, and sadly the more we "need" to be liked, the more that neediness can be offputting.

The "living next door to each other" sort of joke that isn't really a joke - that makes me cringe a bit. A friend broke off from her fiancé because his mum was like this and he hadn't ever dared to pull away or become independent.

Give him some space, a chance to connect with his dad - he's safe, he's communicating, he's not exactly going off the rails with drugs or something - things aren't catastrophically bad, really.

You desperately need to stop feeling so resentful and angry and bitter at his dad - easier said than done I know, but that poisonous feeling is only hurting you, not him, and if your son's picked up on that then he'll feel put in the middle (if he doesn't feel that way already).

Incidentally my DH has a stepdad who his mum thinks he likes, he doesn't - he also has a sibling he's not close too at all. He personally has some issues but overall he's a happy person in a stable life. You'll probably find that from many people and it's just one of those things I'm afraid.

All that might sound like a bit of a kicking but it's 100% not meant that way: I'm trying to say focus on YOU for a bit. On your health and wellbeing. That way when kids have a period of rebellion and pull away for a while, you won't feel so utterly cut to the core, and you'll be there when they return (and they usually do).

Mrs Grady - I just want to say I am thinking of you. There is lots and lots of good advice and unfortunately not a simple right or wrong way forward.

My main focus would be to try and detach a little bit. Try and look after yourself and your girls. I know it hurts.

I have a DS 15 who dreams of the day he is 16 and he thinks he can just walk out of school and walk out of here. To gain independence, peace and quiet is all he wants. He is seriously looking into moving out. He won't find anywhere or afford anything, but I'm letting him have his dream.

With mine, the stress is making him angry. He has called me every horrible word under the sun in the past during his anger outbursts.It has calmed down now. I have learnt to not react and walk away, as soon as he starts getting snappy now.

Mine has also been in tears breaking down, saying it is all too much. Maybe it is an age/hormonal thing as well, which will make it somehow overwhelming and scary for them as they can't cope. I recommend reading the Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Greene, because it explains their reactive behaviour from their point of view.

I give mine plenty of space. I let him self-regulate. However at times I do need to pick him up on things, which he takes into account at times and other times he gets angry. Mine also needs counselling, but refuses to engage. He believes he can sort things out himself - 'I know myself better than anyone else and I know best what I need'....

Please take care OP and don't despair. I actually think making him the shepherds pie was a great idea. I also would recommend acknowledging that his version of the 'story' is real for him. We all see things differently, and as children we may grow up with some misconceptions, such as 'Mum favours my sister', which can stay with us all through life. These ingrained thought patterns are hard to shift, but the first step is acknowledging them. I'm sure he is hurting too. And I am sure he loves you. He maybe just needs a bit of time to sort his head out. I would offer an open door, a forgiving heart and lots of his favourite foods. Despite him having behaved badly, the issue now is rather to form a new, more mature relationship, that can work for you both.

So painful, OP.

But this:
"I know he loves me and he knows I love him. He just can't cope in this house at the moment. He wants to be somewhere where he can just shut off and be left to himself. Whether or not this is good for him I don't know. I have to accept that I can't force him though. And u suppose as hard as it was to hear, Friday's conversation has opened the lines of communication."

Sounds strong.

The Friday Night Chat could have gone a LOT worse. He could have reverted tohis behaviour on hol! However, he is open with you, and sharing.

For you, is the only good outcome that he comes straight back to live with you? I can't hand on heart say that I think DS would choose to live with me should his father and I split up, and I don't think that either is us parents have more 'right' to him than the other. - he loves us both, he finds us both irritating and embarrassing.

There is a lot going on in your life and your home. He sounds angry and confused, and maybe he is (however consciously or unconsciously / reasonably / unreasonably) punishing you.

It doesn't sound as if there is anything bad or unhealthy about his life with his Dad. It might do him some good to get to grips with buses and being a bit more independent.

I think having counselling to see YOU through this is a v good idea, and it is good that your DS has someone to talk to at school.

Sorry only time for quick post but family therapy disaster for us . few main reasons
Poorly facilitated, counselor not good at managing and got involved
My mum was just recovering from breakdown that had required in hospital stay we were all too scared to be honest in case made her down again
We didn't really know what to expect either..
Unreasonable expectations... Mum and counselor seemed to think honesty was the answer.... So kept pushing.... It wasn't so in the end lots of explosions as some "home" truths came out...but we all knew them already really and no solutions...
So disengagement...and positions got entrenched (lots stubborn people)
my mum and step dad are keen on quick solutions and family therapy is not that..

Which is why I recommend you cut yourself some slack and take your time it requires energy,focus and buy in from all participants.. I think what you're doing now seems better at this stage... Removing the heat from the situation and allowing him to talk whilst being yourself.... Hth

I'm pretty sure that he WILL come as long as I arrange something light that we can all enjoy together.

this

do this

then do it some more

(also- sorry, have only skimmed the recent part of the thread, so you might have considered already- how about meeting up with just ds every now and then? I used to do this with my ds when he was about the same age and having sort of similar struggles- nothing pressure-y, cinema, that sort of thing. I know this is so hard when you have a lot of constraints on your time, but I think it really helps)

(I've had a little sniffle reading your thread, thinking how hard things were. It will get better. You have so many positive signs here, I think)

He sounds like a very normal teenager from a divorced family with step parents trying to push the boundrys and thinking in a self centred way. By that last statement I mean he has worked out living with sisters is a PITA and his step mum he doesn't dislike as much as his step dad so factually this means dads place may be a better bet for now.

The thing is teens don't realise thier self centred ways hurt and watering the grass where you are is better than leaving for greener grass in another home. As the other home will also have irritations....

Op concentrate on yourself, your own life and other dc. When your son visits just be normal, be normal but don't make it a special time or your other dc will see this as the prodical son and emulate his behaviour or resent him.

I don't know. Maybe I have been a shit parent and too clingy and needy. I guess that will be addressed in counselling.

I know I'm not a perfect parent but I love my son and I want him home. I know I've made mistakes but I'm willing to go through in therapy.

I just love my son and want him here with me.

I know I've made a lot of mistakes - the fact my son took 2 years to tell me is a testimonial to that. We've arranged to go to see a film together as a family tomorrow and go to Tgi's after. I don't particularly like there but the kids have all had fun when they've been there before. Taking selfies on the motorbike and such. We went there about a month ago so I hope it will remind my son of the good times.

I know I sound clingy. My friends and family have all reminded me about the fact they'll be leaving to go to university in 3 years.

And to the poster who said it was creepy about me saying about them living in a granny flat. You're probably right. It's treated as a joke. But I would secretly like that happen.

I'm sure you are not a shit parent, MrsGrady.

I'm also sure that being a good parent doesn't always get you what you want.

And that loving someone doesn't mean they always have to be with you - and vice versa.

Just 'be'. Go put to TGI and have a good time for what it is, there and then, whatever it is.

Yes that's the conclusion I've come to. I've spent the day with a couple of very good friends who know me and my son well.

I'm desperately hurt that my òwn son doesn't want to live me, of course. My mum used cheesy phrase "if you love someone set them free". I suppose the best thing for him at the moment is for him to be at his Dad's.

I am worried about his mental health though. Being mental myself I do see signs. He's isolating himself and focusing on negative thought patterns.

I didn't say you were a shit parent but I can see you're reading everything in a certain way. Will bow out now - I really hope the counselling helps you feel better over time.

Spending time with his Dad may not be a permanent choice, and it doesn't sound as if it is all personal about you either. It may be a pressure valve thing for him.

He wants to keep his relationship with you!

There could be all sorts of angles: in a female oriented house, he may feel disloyal to his Dad if your DH is his in-house male role model.

Does his Dad know to watch out for his mental health?

No his Dad disagrees that he's depressed. He thinks I'm projecting. Which I might be. The counsellor is trained I'm cbt technique so she'll know if he is or not.

For now I'm going to just try and take a step back. We're spending this afternoon as a family and then he's got counselling on Tuesday. I realise I'm frustrated because I can't control the situation but I just have to accept that I can only control my own behaviour.

He may be at his Dad's for months. Years even. I don't want this but I've just got to let go. I can't keep them tied to me forever - as much as I want to. They're going to be going to Uni in a couple of years anyway so I've got to start seeing them as almost adults. I think in my own mind I still think of them as my babies but they're not. They're almost adults and I know I need to realise this.

I think you sound like a great mum and agree with others you need to let him go. I'm sure the stuff he says about not caring about his siblings isn't true - he sounds a bit like my Aspergersy dd who also says stuff like this but I don't think means it.

I also think your meeting actually went quite well. He needs to understand where the boundaries are - you can't expect him to like it or show he likes it, but he needs to know they're there. I'm sure he knows you care already and that hasn't changed.

While he's away, enjoy focusing on your lovely dds instead.

I treated my brother like your DS speaks about his twin. My brother used to stay in if I was ill, give me stuff all the time but I never done any of that for him. I was slightly older and mum says he used to hang on my every word when we were young and he wouldn't go anywhere without me but if he was ill I went out, I wouldn't give him my stuff, I could tell you loads of other things about me ignoring him or getting him into trouble or blaming him - it's just the way I was. Tbh we aren't that close now - we get along ok and I do like him now but it's never going to be the best relationship in the world but he's my brother.

I think you do sound a bit clingy and possibly trying to over compensate for your relationship breaking down. It sounds like he feels smothered a little - I can imagine it's hard to let go once they get to that age so they can spread their wings. Long ago I could never understand my mum at times and the way she said she felt but now I have kids of my own I do understand her and how she felt and know I will feel the same.

Your DH will change with time as he grows and sees things differently. I'm sure he does love you.

At 15 your son is taking the first steps towards becoming an independent adult. The more you cling to him the more he will feel that he has to push you away in order to achieve that independence. It's hard, but you need to start letting go a little.

Yes I think I'm starting to realise I need to loosen the apron strings. We had a really good day yesterday - we went to see Jungle Book and then went for dinner. My youngest daughter ran straight up to him when she saw him and sat next to him at the cinema and when I glanced over he looked really happy.

Dinner was great. Just like it used to be with us all laughing and talking as normal. At the end of it we were walking back to the car with everyone else ahead and just me and son. He said he'd like to come home for a few days but still spend more time at his dad's. He said he knows it's not my fault but it's much quieter at his dad's - mornings are a bit busy here with 5 people all trying to get ready and out the door at the same time. He wants to spend every Sunday with us though as a family. Which sounds great to me as weekends are better anyway.

He does want to see the counsellor as he thinks maybe he is stressed and thinks cbt may help.

When I dropped him at his Dad's he gave me a hug and a kiss and said "just so you know I never kiss anyone". I said yeah you do you kiss your Mum.

The way it's been left is that he's spending Tuesday and Wednesday night here and then coming home Sunday for the day so that we can all do something together. I said I just want him to be happy - whether that's with me or his Dad and he said "thanks".

My son's the older twin too peggy. He did everything before his sister too so I think she did always follow him around a lot when they were younger. They got on really well with each other yesterday. Teasing each other - hiding each other's cutlery etc so I really don't think deep down he "hates" her. I just always imagined twins would be super close but I suppose it's their relationship and I can't really interfere. They are very different people though so I can see they don't have much in common at the moment. Maybe they will when they're older.

When we were in the restaurant they were talking about living abroad and I really had to grit my teeth as I was thinking "what's wrong with living in the same town as me forever and ever" but instead I said "that sounds great and I'll come and visit "

That all sounds very positive, MrsGrady.
It is good that he is being so open and is voluntarily spending tome with you and the others and enjoying it.

It is all very well having an idea of how our children will and 'should' be -but as well as being close, twins are also in the situation that they have never had a space to be 'the only one' at anything - the oldest, the youngest, the only one getting attention because they are weaning / starting school / starting secondary school. It seems to me that there is just as much chance of feeling constant competition as feeling close.

Carry on letting him decompress.

Our success as parents is as well measured in how well we equip them to be independent and manage without us as it is in how close they stay.

Yes I know. His friends all called for him this morning so he's obviously told them he's coming back home.

I think his plans after this week are to have an extra week night at his Dad's but then spend every Sunday here. Which I'm more than happy with us as one of our problems was that we never got the time to do much as a family as weeknights are too busy. I was supposed to have them every other Saturday night until Thursday morning but over time he started bringing them back later and later. I guess now the contact arrangements have been "set aside" I'll actually get to spend more quality time with them now anyway.

I know quite often they'll be out with friends anyway but Sundays are a lot more relaxed so we'll still get time together - even if it's just for a few board games before bed. I think this is what we've been missing. It's so busy during the week with work, after school activities, housework and my husband working away a lot that there's just not enough of me to go around. So it's the one who shouts loudest who gets my attention and not necessarily the one who needs it.

He is so like me though and I can see he's just got down about things and just shut himself away and bottled it all up. And them inevitably it's all blown up. I got to the stage on Friday and Saturday where I just couldn't stop crying. I had a really good sob and I feel so much better now. I think he's done the same. He's so much calmer now.

Sounds really good, hopefully the counsellor will help him with some tools to manage before getting into lockdown/explosion mode..

There will be wobbles and may happen again ...he is a teenager but you both now know it just takes a step back deep breath and bit of time....