I think I've lost my son

[MrsGradyOldLady]

My 15 year old son moved to his Dad's a week ago. I'm absolutely heartbroken as (obviously ) I love him so much.

What started it all was that we were on holiday when his twin sister needed to find a toilet quickly as her tampon was leaking. I rushed on ahead with her to find one leaving the rest of the group behind - son, son's friend, daughters friend, my younger daughter, husband and another mother. My son came running up to me and shouted at me "Don't you think you show slow down since X can't walk very well?". I admit that I did snap back and said no - I needed to find a toilet for my daughter and I'm sure they could all cope without me for 5 minutes.

What followed was horrendous. We were all 8 of us sat at a picnic table with my son calling me a "fucking bitch" and a "fucking cunt" saying he hated me and was going to live with his Dad. I took him to one side, apologised for snapping and explained the urgency for the toilet. He continued with his angry and abusive language for the rest of the evening.

Since he got back he's started coming out with all sorts. I don't treat him equally to his sisters. I never listen to him. I bought his sister an I phone 6 but he got nothing (his Dad is responsible for his phone I'm responsible for his sisters and since he's lost at least 4 phones I can see his reluctance to get him a contract phone). He said (to his step mother) that whenever he asks to talk to me I say that I'm too tired. This has never happened - not once.

His father, rather than back next up has decided to "stay neutral".

My son has said he will only come home if I apologise for telling him off on holiday and agree to treat him equally to the girls and change my ways. How can I do this? He wants me to admit that he's my least favourite child which is simply not true. His stepmother told me I should be "the bigger person" and just apologise. I've already apologised for snapping but if I apologise for telling him off for swearing at me and not treating him equally it's just going to validate it in his own mind isn't it?

Son has agreed to go to one counselling session but has said if I try and manipulate the situation by lying then he'll walk straight out. He honestly believes his version of events despite the fact there were 7 other witnesses who all back my version of events.

I honestly think he's dug himself into a massive hole and is now trying to justify it by coming up with ridiculous claims over I phones and unfavourable treatment.

I have been struggling massively with my mental health since December. I admit that I've been spending too much time on my phone - this is something the others have also pulled me up on so I've agreed to stop this. I got to the point where I was having suicidal thoughts and have now been put on citalapram but it's not working yet and I just cry all the time over the slightest thing.

I can honestly hand on heart say I treat them equally. When I upgraded my daughters phone contract it cost an extra tenner a month so I increased his spending money by the same. I admit I've been a but "absent" from everyone due to the mental health issues and having been doing enough fun stuff with them such as days out etc so he does have a point there but none of this is directed solely at him. They've all 3 been affected.

His sister thinks he just wants to stay with his Dad because he can do what he wants there - stay in bed until 3pm, them play on his x box all day. No chores. No rules. I do wonder if he's depressed also as obviously it runs in the family.

I just don't know what to do.

i think you need to let go of your ex and his life. your over invested in what he does, what he thinks, what he says, what goes in HIS house - none of it is any of your business. you don't need to be friends with him and you don't need to contact him unless there is some emergency you need to contact him about.

I don't believe he should be backing you up because what goes on between you and your son is nothing to do with him just the same as things that go on between your DS and his dad are nothing to do with you - both of you can parent however you like.

your DS wants to get the bus - good - its independence for him
your DS wants to like in bed - that's what most teenagers do
if he wants something specific to eat no doubt he will tell his dad
if he speaks back to his step mum - no doubt she will deal with it

you need to stop worrying about everything and take a BIG step back - you don't need to be worrying or thinking about any of the above things - worry about your own health and concentrate on that instead of worrying about other people.

Your DS is 15 - he needs to be taking responsibility for his dentist appointments and doctor appointments etc. - they are not your responsibility. How will your DS manage himself if you do everything for him?

Yes that's a good plan hesterton. And I'll make shepherds pie because despite his stepmother being a much better cook than me (restaurant standard food) my shepherds pie is definitely the best

I know I'm being childish and should be glad that my son has such a good relationship with her and his Dad but I can't help feeling very jealous.

You're right Peggy. I think that's how things will be going forward. We don't have the relationship I thought we had and we don't need to be friends. I guess he's an ex for a reason. We fundamentally disagree on this so there's no point anymore keeping up the pretence of "joint parenting".

Stop pandering t this boy who called you a cunt and thinks you should say sorry.

If I came on mn and said

Oh a bit has just called me a fucking cunt shall I cook hima fabulous meal!

What do you think the consensus would be?

Yeah I know He's my son though - I made him what he is so it's up to me to sort it out.

And I really don't think my tablets are helping at all. I'm on citalapram and I can't think straight at all. I'm constantly yawning and feel like my heads full of cotton wool. I'm struggling to remember what day it is to be honest.

So you think that he's going to think if I call another person a fucking cunt then your actions - cooking him a wonderful meal are going to reaffirm that his actions are fine and dandy

Yeah so he gets with a girl and calls her a barrage of abusive expletives and that's fine and normal as he could do that to his mum and she kept saying sorry and did nice things for him....

What are you teaching him?

That his bad behaviour is fine, it's acceptable

Hmm not thought of it like that.

I'll get us to make something together. Or tell him to make himself a pot noodle.

Why not just have a cup of tea and let him know that his behaviour is not acceptable and you don't want it repeated ever

^^ this you dont need to be making nice dinners to make up to him his behaviour is out of order by all means listen to him about his out burst and how he thinks he is treated different but he is 15 not a little boy

Why not just have a cup of tea and let him know that his behaviour is not acceptable and you don't want it repeated ever

^ this

You need to sit him down and explain to him that to be treat like an adult he has to behave like an adult and that doesn't mean being verbally or physically abusive to his own mother, sisters or anyone else in or not in his family.

Reiterate to him that your sorry for snapping at him when on holiday but unfortunately you was dealing with a situation that needed dealt with and him coming and trying to berate you as if you were the child and he the adult was not warranted nor needed so yes you was wrong to snap but he was equally wrong for the way he spoke to you at that time and more so wrong the way he continued to talk to you and verbally abuse you so you deserve and are expecting an unreserved, genuine apology for his behaviour too.

Ask him in what way he feels he is being treated differently to his sisters. Be ready to give examples of how you treat them fairly-ie giving him the money to make up the increased difference in your dd phone contract.

Explain to him that being treated fairly doesn't equate being treat exactly equal all the time (an example of this is his father upgrading his phone to one which was better than his sisters as if it was equal he would have got them both the same phone).

Tell him that each of your children including him are treated according to what they need at the time and you will continue to do so (if you can back this up with examples of when you've been doing more for him then his siblings for a short time even better) and that you won't apologise for this. Part of being an adult is realising that people's needs differ and if at anytime he feels he is being sidelined then he is more than welcome to speak to you about it and point it out, civiliy by using words and sentences not berating and abusing.

Tell him you understand it has been difficult for everyone whilst you have been ill and that you are sorry for that you are now getting help, unfortunately you can't being ill and you will continue to try and minimise the impact it has on others although you can't always promise that it won't as that is impossible pretty much the same as when he or any of his siblings are ill they can't promise not to impact on you. Regardless though that doesn't give him the right to behave towards his family and you as he is.

Tell him your sad that he has chosen to live with his father but you completely respect his decision and see that at the moment it may be for the best. Tell him your door is always open to him to return but if he does you expect him to follow the same house rules that you all follow and the main one of these is being respectful to each other and that no abuse towards you, his siblings or anyone will be tolerated-verbal, physical or otherwise and that if he does choose to move come back at anytime the rules and chores will still stand as your a family living together and part of doing that harmoniously is all pitching in and helping.

Oh and after the chat I would ask him if he would like to stay for tea and if he replies that he would then say okay fab, can you help me make it please.

Now is the time to set the precedent for how it will going forwards. If he wants to be treat like an adult he needs to act like one and you have to be strong in setting your boundaries otherwise you will have a hell of a time going forwards.

I think that's absolutely perfect advice minnie and I'm going to do exactly that. Thank you for taking the time to post.

No worries, I forgot to say make sure to tell him that he wouldn't speak to anyone at school the way he has been to you, nor would he attack any of the other pupils because he knows to do so would be wrong and school would punish him as such therefore you also know he is making a conscious choice to treat you and his siblings the way he is and as with school it's unacceptable.

Be prepared for it to possibly get worse before it gets better but you do need to stand your ground whilst being available to him as and when his behaviour dictates. If you roll over now he'll do this every time you say no and he'll have you over a barrel for years to come, which would be a disservice to him, you and your other family members.

Yes I know. It's because I'm refusing to back down that he's being like this anyway. There's no way I'm going to give in over this. I know it's important that he apologises. My husbands said the same - I shouldn't let him back until I get a proper apology.

Well the chat couldn't possibly have been any worse.

He says that he's very stressed living here and things are a lot more peaceful at his Dad's. He's only angry and aggressive when he's here as he feels on edge all the time.

He says we argue all the time. I said I thought we had a great relationship and I didn't think we argued much at all. He said that we argue "at least every 3 months". I said I thought that was pretty good going for a mum and a teenager but apparently he never argues with his Dad.

In addition it's not just me. He also feels his younger sister hates him as she's much closer to his sister and his best friend. His sister adores him.

He also hates his twin and always has. And he can't stand his step dad and has no relationship at all with him. He doesn't really like his step mother either but dislikes her less than his step dad.

He wasn't saying ant of this to hurt me. This is how he feels. He does want a relationship with me but only a couple of days a week. His Dad has said that nothing would make him happier than him going to live there full time but he must do it because that's what he wants not just to please his Dad.

Oh and he disagrees with my views on politics, feminism, wealth distribution and organised religion. Aren't teenagers supposed to disagree with their parents views on things like this?

I couldn't help crying. I feel absolutely destroyed. He's just focussing on all the negative rather than the good times we've all had as a family.

I think he's a really troubled boy and I'm hoping the counselling helps.

I really think there's something wrong with him. Something more than the usual teenage hormones.

His twin sister asked him if he'd cry if she died and he said No he wouldn't but he'd be sad. They'd apparently been talking about what their relationship would be like in the future and my son said he honestly didn't think they'd ever see each other when they were grown up.

Last night when we were talking I said that both of the girls had missed him and he said he knew because they'd told him but he just didn't feel the same way. He said he's always hated his twin. I do believe him. He's never once done one loving thing towards her. When they were little she'd save her pocket money and buy him presents. If she was off school sick she'd miss him and keep asking when it was time to pick him up from school. If I told him off unfairly she would always back him up. None of this has ever been reciprocal.

I know it's normal to fall out with your family and especially siblings but he's just so cold about it all.

Thats a shame he seems an angry young man what do you think the problem is ?

I'm sorry that it didn't go well. Could it be he's put up a shutter to stop himself being hurt? I just don't know what to suggest.

I don't think he's angry. It's more stress and frustration.

I'm not sure what I think the problem is. These frustrations of his seem to have been building up for years. I don't know if he's inherited my mental health issues or if it could be something like aspergers (which also runs in the family and I guess I have traits of it ).

I should have arranged family therapy years ago but I just didn't realise how deep this ran. I know he's not close to his step dad but step dad taught him to play chess and they used to enjoy playing this together plus card games. I thought things were OK. Not brilliant bit 'ok'.

I've just got so much going on at the moment . My youngest daughter has some kind of unexplained sickness that we're currently undergoing test after test with.I've got loads to sort out at home - finances, car to sell, my grandma's will to sort out, another car needs exhaust fixing, I need to get the house ready for the decorator. My tablets aren't working and I can barely remember what day it is so I can't properly function at work either.

And I can't stop crying. It's as though my face has sprung a leak as it's constant.

Aww no so much going on atm could you contact school speak to his guidance teacher.

I already have and there's not much they can do. He has a counselling session on Tuesday and they said that was probably the best route to go down. They do have a drop in service at school but my son won't engage.

I'm pinning everything on the counselling because I don't know what else to do.

honestly I think that chat was ok for where you are now....at least you're talking...
I was a very angry teen but could never actually say it or even come up with stuff that it could be about so couldn't /wouldn't articulate to anyone......
Possibly what he's saying is not all true or factually accurate and maybe different tomorrow it's hard to tell as the teenage brain is changing so much in such a short period of time...
I think being a twin must be extra hard esp when they'll be at different states/stages awareness/puberty /maturity... Much easier for girls to appear "grown up" earlier....and that might be part of his resentment of his twin..

However your view/dreams /worldview of their relationships in the future are just that yours.... My mum always wanted my brother and I to get on as she was an only but actually we are civil but not really much in contact maybe annually? But that is up to us if we wanted to change it we would but we don't... There is nothing she can do about it...but her trying to make us did not help esp when we were teenagers.... It is his choice who he has relationships with in the future...
For now he needs to be polite and not horrible ..the future is just that

Keep talking, but keep your boundaries as well.... Well done for being able to have the chat ....it's less about the content and more about it keeping it going.... I never could talk honestly to my mum as a teenager and it took us a long time to have a good adult relationship...

Sorry cross post... Streets and frustration can manifest as anger ...yes counsellor may help but from your huge list of stress factors sounds like as family you have had lots and lots of serious things going on please cut yourself some slack....
Time may help with a lot of this...... Don't rush into family therapy it can be v hard (was a disaster for us..there was too much anger around) ..... Possibly some support for you as you seem to have a huge burden at the moment and for him so he has an outlet that is neutral....and then maybe some therapy when it's calmed down a bit....

That is very true and positive least he is talking about how he feels you dont like what he is saying but you csnt make him like his sister let him stay atdads for a while see how it goes. My friends dd went to her dad at 14 friend was hurt but the dd was struggiling with the busy house and preferred the peace at dads house

I know you're probably right. It's just that I thought I was the person he was closest to in the whole world. when he was younger I was the only person in the world that he would kiss or cuddle. Including his Dad. But I know I'm being selfish here so I try to put this to one side and focus on what's best for him. But it's so damn hard. Especially when I think what's best for him is to be with me and his sisters.

I saw the counsellor on my own on Friday and she said she may bring in other family members as things progress which I think is a good idea. As long as it doesn't include his fucking father. I know this isn't a healthy emotion but right now I hate him. I think he's manipulated this situation to his own benefit. Maybe I'm being irrational but that's the way I feel at the moment.