DD's friends staying over mealtimes when not eating with us

[fessmess]

Just want to check what you guys think of this. My dd (15) thinks it's perfectly fine for friends who aren't staying for dinner (either we don't have enough or they're having dinner at home) to sit in our lounge or even at the table with us whilst we eat. Now, to me this is the height of bad manners and this would NEVER have happened when I was a kid. My dd says "nowadays people don't worry about this."

Am I alone in this? To clarify I am not about to change my rules and non-dinner guests will have to leave.

It must be upbringing.
I'm surprised that some people don't know these rules, to me they are just second nature

I think this boils down to etiquette dictating that you should aim to respect your host. If your invited to stay great, stay join us, if not go because then you are inadvertently putting pressure on the host, have I got enough food to stretch? Are they okay in there whilst we're eating? Are they just trying to be polite and refuse the meal but secretly sitting there salivating as we eat?

So you dont put the host in that position, you join in or your politely leave.

Fessmess, I think it is fine to say that you aren't comfortable with people floating in and out of your house all the time - plenty of people wouldn't be comfortable with this and it is your house too.

However, I'm sure it's possible to protect family meals (if not every night) and allow your children to have friends over casually. They won't become social pariahs just because a few nights a week you like to eat more formally.

Sorry OP, didn't mean to be rude. I was just having a 'boggle' moment because have never heard of this.

Saying that, my mum was always very strict about family meals and no friends (with three kids close together I guess it was hard to 'rustle up' for potentially multiple extras). I was always embarrassed about our house being uninviting and used to spend a lot of time at more relaxed friends houses, just having a drink at table with them while they ate (because I always had to eat at home). So my mums idea of us learning perfect table manners backfired somewhat because of all the time spent elsewhere.

I loved the welcoming atmosphere of those friends houses and we are still very close now. Their parents know me so much better than mine know them, and looking back I think they viewed being hospitable as a great way to get a feel for the friends (which are to be encouraged, which are bad news, etc). Don't know where I'm going with this really just rambling!

See JackieO I think that is part of the problem, these friends of hers can be very rude and sullen and tbh they just put my back up. It turns me into the uptight cow I always vowed I'd never become. (Ie like my extremely uptight mum.)

We have set meal times and all sit down at the table for dinner. If my dd's teenage friends were round I would always offer to feed them. If u couldn't stretch it I would make beans on toast etc.
If they didn't want to eat they would have a drink and sit with us. If they wanted to watch tv instead of sitting at the table I really wouldn't mind.

I do realise I have to move with the times but I surprise myself how difficult I find it at times. For eg I can't go down the eat in your room at your convenience route but will not have devices at the table. My dd and her friends live a very moment to moment life, no firm plans, no dates and times, no dinner times (for them anyway) and they just "drift." I put that all down to them having mobiles.

Mobiles?

If that was sarcasm I didn't get it

I think being welcoming is more important than strict adherence to etiquette.

I had three pissed teens in my front room after prom last week. I made them bacon sarnies, stopped them shaving the eyebrows off the lad who fell asleep, and offered them beds to sleep it off. For me, that's part of supporting ds3 and enabling his friendships.

I am glad he has got good friends who look after eachother - I would rather make compromises to ensure this continues than worry about standards of etiquette that are, I'm afraid, somewhat outmoded and outdated.

I should say, though, that ds3's friends have always been polite and a pleasure to play host to - I can absolutely understand how you'd be a whole lot less willing to be welcoming to teens who are rude and sullen - I would probably feel the same way!

I am with you OP, I would always leave if food was being served and I either wasn't invited to eat or had declined the invite. Whilst it's nice for your daughter's friends to feel welcome you shouldn't feel that you have to make every meal stretch and if you would like a family dinner around the table then that needs to be respected.

I do think it is a bit rude to interrupt someone's tea - if they are starting to eat/serve up and you are not eating with them then yes, it's time to go!

When they arrived, I would offer them tea and then say we'll be eating at x time - give advance warning - and they should certainly leave if asked, especially for homework reasons!

Like SD said, perhaps you can come to a compromise - give her some tea on a plate when her friends are round but that they go when it's time for homework. Or you could try plating it up and getting her to microwave it later like her friends do, I bet the novelty would wear off pretty quickly!

I'd have a problem I'd dd's friends were rude and sullen, but they aren't so far.

I don't think it is so much about etiquette as different people wanting to establish boundaries in different places. That will vary depending on the personalities involved. Never mind parents, I think many siblings would be uncomfortable about always having an open house. On the other hand the world will not come to an end if 2 or 3 nights a week dinner is more free flowing.

There is a lot of middle ground between having a formal sit down family dinner at 7.30 every night and having a completely open house. If either party feels that they have been completely rail roared, there is likely to be resentment.

I'm mid thirties and would always leave if not eating at someone's house.
When my son is old enough I would offer dinner but then expect his friends to do the same, but i won't turf them out if they don't. It will seem weird though.

it is bad manners to stay in someone's house at a meal time if they have not invited you to share the meal. It is bad manners to accept a meal in someone else's house if you have not been invited in advance because you have in effect forced your host to feed you. You should politely decline but should accept a drink. If invited to sit at the table you can but it's awkward and you shouldn't put yourself or your host in that position.

Anyone asked to leave my house who refused to go would not be welcome again, that is beyond the pale even for teenagers and would justify a call to their parents.

Having said that I would feel obliged to offer to feed them something - probably throw on some extra rice or pasta and veg or say we're having ... and I don't have enough for the rest of you, do you want a sandwich/pizza/ tin of beans. Polite young people understand that as they should leave.

I have had rude youngsters complain about what they were offered to eat when they haven't been invited - I no longer expect good manners from any generation, certainly not from teenagers.

This thread is like kate Fox's 'watching the English' in a soap opera format.

I'm like you OP. DD is like your DD. I always invite friends to stay to eat, I find it v odd when they are at my house but don't eat. To me a family meal where you are not eating is time to leave that house . But I'm quite relaxed and don't insist. It is strange though, how awkward it feels isn't it ?

I find people have chaotic routines these days - otherwise why aren't they hungry enough to eat at what I consider to be a meal time ?

If it's you, it's me too, fessmess. If you're invited to join the family meal you either say "Yes please Ms Mess" or "Thank you, but I've already eaten/have dinner waiting at home, so I'll see you later, goodbye". If there are clear signs of a meal about to be served and no invitation has been issued you politely leave and allow the family to get on with it.

It's basic courtesy and I'm very surprised to find that I'm in a minority.

Inviting someone to join you shouldn't be expected or automatic either. Offering to cook for other kids is all fine and good but some of us would find ourselves catering for extra people 7 nights a week! Maybe that's something the family can't afford, maybe the person cooking just doesn't want to feel like they're running a sodding restaurant! Whichever it is, the idea that a parent should automatically invite any number of teens to join in the family meal at the drop of a hat is not on, at least not in this house.

I wasn't with you to begin with OP but when you started talking about lunch it stuck a chord!

Since having my DC, it has happened twice now where I have invited someone over for coffee at 10.30 or 11 and it's got to about 12.30 or 1 and I'm getting hungry and so are DC but guest and their DC are not looking like they're in a rush to go anywhere so I've reluctantly ended up feeding them too! (I wouldn't have minded except this person never invited me to theirs in return. )

So yes, that is rude. I try to be a good host which means providing for my guests. It gets awkward when it comes to unplanned for meals ough I suppose. I would hate to over stay my welcome.

Doesn't bother me. DSs friends can stay over a mealtime and either have some or not. Not a big deal chez Sparkling.

"A little while ago I asked two of my dd's friends to leave and THEY REFUSED! Sat there for nearly an hour and my dd refused to eat if they had to go."

I'd have thrown the friends out and told DD she could refuse to eat and bloody well go hungry if she liked but that if she played that game she'd be preparing and clearing up after her own meals for the foreseeable future, after I'd cooked for the rest of the family.

The most shocking thing is that you asked DDs friends to leave and they refused Was your DD not upset with her friends for being so rude to her mother?

You need to get some boundaries in place over this. "Hey dd's friends we are eating in 15 minutes and there's plenty to go round. Are you staying or going?" Or "hey DD's friends we will be eating in 15 minutes, and we haven't got enough to invite you this time, so you lot will have to go and come back another time" sort of thing...

It sounds as though your Dd is in charge of how you are treated in your own home. You need to be in charge of that at least.

What on earth did you say when her friends refused to do as you'd asked?

It's not an age thing. I'm 34 and I agree with you op. I wouldn't be happy having an "open house" policy at all either. I'm happy for dd to bring friends back and make arrangements for them to have dinner with us, but I like some warning at least the day before. But then I think that's just me as a person - I absolutely can't stand people just popping round whenever they fancy, whereas I know a lot of people consider that normal amongst friends.

Trouble was hooby i was under a lot of stress at the time(work) and I was so, so cross I said nothing to the girls as I did not trust myself to not say something I'd later come to regret.