16 year old and money towards keep

[Faithope]

Hi, so DS has a well paid job for his age-he has a salary of £10,244 a year and last month took home £950. We ask for £300 a month, I do everything for him as in washing his clothes, ironing and putting away and cook his food.
Now my issue is, he has an issue with how much we ask of him to pay. I have broken it down and shown him our outgoings each month and his £300 hardly scratches the surface of what we pay out. I have explained to him that when I was 16 (20 years ago) that I had to pay my mum £250 a month and didn't earn near as much as he does. That's the reason he needs to pay towards his keep is because he is now classed as a working adult and if he was out in the real world, he wouldn't have a penny left after paying rent, bills, food, mobile etc.
He has no idea how to handle money-last month he spent his entire wages in 7 days (all I have seen is a pair of trainers, he got his ear pierced and bought a hoodie) and had not even bought his nan a birthday present. He then asked us to pay his bus fares to work 3x!! I did but told him it was a loan and that he needs to manage his money better next month.
He's been working for 4 months now and each month is the same.
How else can I explain to him that money has to last the month?

300 is a lot to take from a child. Plus you're taking 35% of his income when people are advised to spend 30% o ftheir income on rent.

If I were him I'd probably move out.

Nc - it isn't just for rent though - it's rent, utilities, food, laundry and cleaning. Be very surprised if he could get all that for £300 elsewhere.

Thanks for this thread, we informed our 13 year old last night that once he left full time education, be that A levels or Uni, if he wished to remain at home he would need to pay his way.

He was horrified.

So we came up with a mythical salary, and then we googled flat shares in the area where he now lives, and flat shares in a not so nice area about fie miles away, he then declared our mythical keep figure a bargain.

I think for many young people there is a brief window where they are earning money and they have few responsibilities. Life soon becomes pretty hard once they have rent or mortgages, and other household cots plus a family. This is one reason why I believe that they should, if they can, save up as much as they can but also have fun with their money. I'm fed up of hearing how everything has to be a life lesson. We have been teaching him about money since he was a child - about budgeting, how banks work, credits v debit cards etc. He's got his pension sorted and direct debits for different savings accounts

My lad isn't costing me any more living with us than he did before his job. My mortgage is the same, bills haven't changed. Like I said I'm better off because straight away I'm saving £20 a week pocket money, not paying his gym membership,phone contract, or sports fees or buying clothes for him.I'm at least £500+ a month better off. If I take money from him I am making a profit from my own child living in the family home. To be quite honest, I'm fond of his company, he's not costing me anything and he is managing to save quite a bit for his long term future .
There's no need for me to take money from him.
I understand if some families need the money once child benefit and the like have stopped but that is a different scenario. However we didn't get CB or other benefits so haven't missed them.

I see kids on my street, in their mid twenties still at home. They have bounced back from uni and have first jobs. We live on the tube line handy for the city, so it's lucky they can stay at home and access so many employment opportunities.

This is an affluent area, and their parents don't charge them anything. They all have flashy cars, expensive handbags, plenty of holidays, nights out on the town, etc. I wonder how they will ever leave home? They are not used to budgeting for insurance, rent, utilities, council tax, groceries, etc. leaving home would be a massive drop in lifestyle. At 22 this seems ok, at 26 they look a little old for it, I wonder how it will seem at 30?

£650 left over after room and board is a huge amount for anyone. I hope he is saving a bit of it long term (pension) and a bit of it short term (rainy day fund.) £400 a month of discretionary spending money would still be more than most adults in work in this country have.

He is still 16, the point is to bring him up to be a self sufficient, confident adult with good habits.

The whole point of DS saving so much money is that he is aiming to leave home at 23/24. He finishes his apprenticeship at 21 and is guaranteed a job He then wants about 2 years of proper wages so that he can afford to move out. I certainly don't want him living with us for ever andi it sounds.ike a workable plan.

I do think it is a bit mis leading when people say that taking 30% or whatever of their earnings is teaching them about budgeting. No it doesn't. All it teaches them is to live on less than they have earned. Learning about budgeting is more than handing over 50 quid a week to mum.

flipchart, I am not criticising you. It sounds like things are ticking over nicely with your son and you have all worked out a situation that suits your family. Your son has goals and is aware of how things work and what he wants.

I do think it is very important to learn to live on less than what you earn. My parents would call it "living within your means." People who cannot or will not do so are always in a precarious situation, just one pay-check or unforeseen expense away from disaster. Frankly, the OP's son is still being subsidised by mum and dad. There is no way he could find food and lodgings on his own for less.

All that said, if he suddenly had the desire and opportunity to go on an academic course, and I could afford to support him, of course I would. He has left purely academic education earlier than many children. He's stepping into adulthood with all the perks and responsibilities that entails.

I am now not earning, DH earns about £28,000 a year, bringing up soon to be 3 children and running a home on that wouldn't be impossible but tight. We aren't well off at all, we manage but that's it. So to ask a small portion of DS earnings to a. help out the running costs of the home he lives and the utilities he uses and b. to teach him that life costs, regardless of age and status. So Flipchart your income must be £50,000 plus as you said you don't recieve CB? So my family home income is half your's? My DS has no idea about what he wants for dinner, let alone what he wants to be doing in 10 years time and there is nothing wrong in that. Life can change overnight. Your DS could get a girl pregnant next week and his life plans will change and bang goes all those savings..

He isn't wanting to sit down and chat about money and I can't force him to either. I am pretty sure he is sick of me talking about it so we need to find a time where he is happy to chat about it and put things into force.

Like I have mentioned before-I want him to be able to know that if he can afford it, he can buy it. I have never had a loan, nor do I buy if I can't afford it. I am making sure DS knows this too as I would hate him to go down the Wonga road. I mentioned the parcel of two items coming today that has now magically turned into 3 items, yet another bag is arriving today (he seems to need every size army bag they have on sale..) He got the bus to work this morning so his wages have lasted 10 days so far.

So DS actually earns more than 1/3 of the household income.

Everyone still think OP is profiteering?

To help him for the first year or so, I'd take all his money from him on Day 1, and then pay him weekly. I'd probably agree with him that he saves 1/4 and pays 1/4 towards the household. He should also do household chores - that's also part of becoming grown-up and taking responsibility. He'll still be very well off compared with most other teenagers.

DS could rent a room for £500 around here all bills included but not his food or his washing.. I think he is getting a lot for what he is contributing. I think someone said if they were him then they would move out. Makes sense to pay a lot more and get less

Faithope, you sound like a sensible, intelligent, loving parent to me. Your plan sounds reasonable and right in your situation.

I don't know your son, and what he will go along with; but if it was one of my girls, I'd want to sit down with her once a month when her bank statement comes in and reconcile the account and then think about what is coming up next month. That sort of checking back that there are no false charges on the account etc. and then planning forward is what adults do. I'd strongly encourage a separate savings account with a direct debit going into it monthly as well as a SIPP with a direct debit going in monthly, if he isn't already in a pension scheme. The direct debits should go out the day after pay day. Always pay yourself first!

He may want to pay for driving lessons when he is older and get a license etc. Knowing how to drive can sometimes make finding a job easier, etc. But it is expensive. If he has a goal like that, it may give him some enthusiasm for saving. Or he may have other goals. I think the habit of planning ahead and saving is the most important thing whether the treat at the end is driving, travelling, moving out, etc.

faithhope of course you are right about life changing in a second.Regrettably I know that unfortunately too well. There has been more than enough tragedy in our family in the last 3 years that have included a teenage death as well as a serious life changing accident.

That's the whole point of him having savings, to be prepared. He has goals but they can change.
Sure he could get his gf pregnant but they have covered that as best as they can and good contraception was sorted from the beginning.

Yes we do earn over 50G but we haven't always. We did at one point have the bailiffs at the door at our lowest point but by a combination of good luck, hard work and being at the right place at the right time reversed things for us but that has never changed my view point.
Your last post sounds defence. I was just offering my POV and at how things work in our family.
I just disagree with taking 'board' as such and prefer them to muck in as I have said previously eg, pick up groceries when needed, pick the tab up for a meal out ( that in itself often comes to about £120 for the 4 of us) things like that are teaching about the 'real world' as people call it.

Obviously do what works for you. I remember when I was earning £25 a week on a YTS and mum taking 10 quid. That struck me as greedy and was a catalyst in me moving out as soon as I could. I vowed I would never do that to my kids.

flip - your DS sounds very thoughtful and kind regarding his financial situation but not all children are as sensible. I don't think my brother (now 50 ) has ever treated our parents to a meal out - and incidentally he was still living at home in his 30s - my parents actually moved to 'kick him out' and probably gave him a hefty contribution towards his first mortgage.

I would always choose to charge 'board and lodging' to any child living at home who is earning, I think it starts them off on their journey to adult hood and makes them understand that there is more involved in living at home than just the food put in front of them.

And incidentally what is wrong with moving out as soon as you could - I am probably your sort of age (remember YTS schemes ) and it was our goal to move out and start life in a bedsit/whatever rather than staying on at home. I have friends with grown up children who positively relish them living at home well into their 20s - each to their own of course but I hope my DS wants to live independently of his parents asap.

flipchart-not defensive, just trying to show you that we don't have the same income as you. I do get that I need to pull my finger out when it comes to giving him more responsibility and the whole savings thing we will do. Your mum took almost half your cash-no wonder you felt the way you did and moved out. I am not asking half of DS earnings.

tmcp-Ah that's kind of you, thank you :) I am trying my best, I am new to this teen parenting thing lol what's a SIPP?? He can't be in the pension scheme-he is too young (I think you have to be 22??) they started taking £49 a month from him but have paid that back to him. In regards to learning to drive-he had a go at me the other day saying I put a dampner on everything he wants to do like driving. I tried to explain that he needs to be 17 to start. But I have done some enquiring into off road lessons for him and today found a place just behind his work, I have text him the details and costs and I got this back 'xxx thanks that's great mum'. I won't be paying for it ;) Hopefully this will hep him decide if that is something he wants and if he does then he can start saving now ready for 6 months time when he turns 17 :)

ragwort ha! He had to be prodded into buying the meals, getting. The round in etc. Atfirst it was a case of 'eh? What do you mean?'Lol. He isn't always sensible, but then neither am I. I like sometimes spending money on shit but wouldn't /couldn't do it all the time.

What's wrong with leaving home early? Nothing I guess. I just felt uncomfortable living in my own family home and feeling I had to leave at 17 (other issues going on as well I guess).
I think there are other just as important lessons ( if we are back to the everything in life has to be a lesson for your children route) that would be to bloody well pick up after themselves, Putting the washing machine on, changing the bedding, making sure the place is tidy, get the ironing done, write a shopping list for the week and stick to the budget, etc.
I'm nearly there with most of those things ( except his bedroom, what a dump!) to me those things are more important than taking cash from my kids.

I agree. I got a full time job at 16 and paid about £250 a month, i had everything done for me until I left home at 23. Wouldn't dream of not paying!!

faithope you don't have to be 22 for a pension. Our financial advice guy came round last Feb when DS was still 17 to sort out savings and pension plans. DS has his own private pension going. He's also in the works scheme.

Whether any one agree s or disagrees on how we bring up teenagers one thing is certain, it's bloody daunting!!

Just a comment on pensions - the Ops DS won't be entitled to join the works scheme as he earns under the threshold for 'compulsory' joining of a works scheme, and is probably under the age limit however he can start his own private pension scheme - we started a pension for our DS when he was born .

Hi, again!

A SIPP is a "Self Invested Personal Pension." He can start one of those now. He can continue contributing to it once he is a work scheme if he wants to. (Not many kids would want to, but with the "magic" of compound interest, it's one of those things you would be delighted you had done when you are 50!)

A SIPP is great because the government tops up your contributions by 20%. So if he has £100 go by direct debit into his SIPP each month, £120 will actually be invested in his account. At his age, I would put the money into tracker funds. A UK Footsie tracker fund and a USA Dow Jones tracker fund. Tracker funds tend to outperform managed funds, and have very low fees. Also once you choose them, you don't tend to sell them. With managed funds they tend to go up and down, and I find I want to sell in and out of them more often, and every time you sell/buy you incur a fee.

I use Hargreaves Landsdowne, they are online only, very low fees and have a good reputation. I have been with them a decade and have had no troubles. I am sure there are others, but here is a link:
www.hl.co.uk/pensions/sipp/what-is-a-sipp
They will allow minimum contributions of £20 a month, topped up to £25 by HMRC.

Phew, that was wordy! To recap: set up a low cost, online SIPP. Set up a Direct Debit out of his account each month the day after payday. Chose tracker funds (sometimes called Index funds.) Sit back and forget about it. Reap the rewards in years to come.

If you can get him to do this, he will get used to saving long term and become financially literate about pensions. All good stuff. If he doesn't get used to frittering so much money away; he won't miss it. He has a lot more disposable income than most families do at the moment!

tmcp-are you Martin Lewis in disguise?? Thanks for explaining SIPP-I had never heard of it.

I agree-having a teenager is the most challenging part of being a parent for me! Give me a baby and I know what I am doing :)

Flipchart - what my daughter pays me just about covered her share of the holiday we went on last year so basically I might be charging her but I am paying for her holidays.

My DD is almost 20 and I only stopped paying the car insurance about 3 months ago so I don't think she is too hard done by. We always pay for meals out and for the boyfriend if he comes. Still buy her the odd bits of clothing if we go shopping together