I'm done

[CouthyMow]

DD school refused this morning. First she refused to give DS1 back his iPod that he had kindly lent to her yesterday because hers is broken.

I insisted she give it back. She then decided

God, I sound like a bitch.

I'm going to try to find something to take my mind off my own problems, maybe another Fred on here.

tomorrow, if you can get her out of the house for school tell your ex to simply NOT OPEN THE DOOR OR ENGAGE WITH HER IN ANY WAY.
then phone SW.

she is going to leave the house at some point - lock doors. ignore her. when she comes back phone SS. or police.
she is 15, if you wont allow her back in then once again SS have to find her somewhere to go. sounds harsh but all the previous work will simply evaporate as you well know if she gets a foot back in your door - it solves everyones problems.
who let her in?

can you call CAMHS?

i find all this so sad. at the end of the day she is a 15 year old minor with special needs as yet undiagnosed.

you need to pick your battles and work out what you can win instead of putting less energy into each and every battle....can you just pick one, write down what you need to do, letters to MP? GP? complaints to all and sundry??
jesus, if you simply lock her out and refuse to have her back in the house then she has to be placed somewhere. its that simple. its sad if it comes to that, but if it does it does.

i wouldnt give up, just yet, but i would be prioritising because you are just going to burn out.
she has to be the priority right now. not college. not money. not the other DCs.
because if you get her sorted then those other things will sort themselves anyway.

i would bloody well drag her out if i had to and tell her under no fucking circumstances is she setting foot in the house until she starts to realise .....and that she HAS to comply with SW, FC and anyone else who is willing to give her sorry arse a chance before you wash your hands of her for good....say it to her. if you cant physically remove her from the house then get a neighbour, or her father, or her SM, or a friend, or a SW, or any tom dick or harry to help.

call the SW and tell them whats about to happen and that you are through.
(you dont have to be....but say it)

she needs diagnosing.
i am at a complete loss as to how your GP can continue to just stonewall any attempts at getting her assessed when its come to this?!?

is there a practice manager?
speak to them.

dont expend vast amounts of energy and time on the stuff that right now this very minute doesnt matter and can be sorted later.

Talk to college.
talk to the schools of your other DCs.

if anyone is undergoing the type of stress you are under right now i would be surprised if they did not make some allowances, college could surely give you some compassionate leave to sort this out?

if not they would be the only college ive ever heard of to be so inflexible when one of their students is undergoing personal difficulties.

harness what you have and use it to your best advantage. you CAN do this and it would take up less energy than the scatter gun approach that isnt working for you.
you cant do everything at once.
so pick one thing. and do that one thing.
then pick another.
one at a time. put the other stuff on hold and tell college, school, etc what is happening. How are you supposed to continue studying with this going on? really?? most colleges will support their students rather than lose them.
how can you be sorting out DS schooling while trying to do everything else? tell them. explain to them.

have you looked into advocacy services in the area to give you a hand?

here - just a quick google found this

worth contacting them as they seem to understand the issues.

you are running yourself ragged going round in circles. get some rest. decide what you can do right now - its 2am so nothing!! sleep.
tomorrow, talk to college. school. everything needs to go on hold.
then into battle. again.

The course I'm on is a Fast Track GCSE - we are doing a GCSE in 6 months, basically. Miss a lesson, get lower marks. There is absolutely NO option of making up lessons etc. I either attend or get a lower grade. I need at least a B to get onto next years course.

I'm on a. Time crunch with these courses as in 18 months, I will fall in the crack where I'm too ill for JSA and not ill enough for ESA. I will have NO income. There's a deadline on that too, and that's DS3's 5th birthday.

I can't allow that to happen just because she's acting like this, as I will lose my home and be unable to feed my other DC's and keep the lights on.

So not attending College isnt an option. I WILL NOT allow her to ruin that. Not at all. That is one area where I will stand firm.

I CAN'T stop my Ex from letting her in, his autism comes out in anxiety attacks in confrontations in public - he has a full blown anxiety attack if he thinks he is drawing attention to himself in any way where people can see him.

So there is just NO WAY I can stop him from letting her in - the attempt to do so would render HIM incapable of caring for the other DC's at a time when I will be out of the house.

I can ask him not to, which I have done, but I can't stop him from allowing her in when she actually turns up, because I won't be here, I'll be at College.

And no, I won't be letting her in!! I have a 10am appointment with the SW, and I will be making it plain that DD is NOT COMING BACK TONIGHT, and that I expect THEM to sort this out. She has already tried to intimidate DS1 into giving him HIS iPod - which I refused to allow.

She is still in her pyjamas. She was meant to leave at 7.30 for school.

She's STILL asking for DS1's iPod despite the fact that I have said no.

I have had DS1 locking himself in his room AGAIN this morning - but Dd is carefully keeping to JUST below the line where the police will pick her up. It's like living on the fucking edge.

I've been sworn at repeatedly this morning for not making her a sandwich for breakfast - my 10yo DS2 with physical disabilities makes his own breakfast, why the FUCK should she expect me to be a fucking waitress service or get sworn at?! I have epilepsy and arthritis, I feel like shit this morning because I'm already getting the tummy cramps of yet ANOTHER FUCKING PERIOD when I only finished the last one three / four DAYS ago.

I wouldn't be treated like this by a partner so why am I just left to be abused like this simply because it's my own child?

WHERE IS THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, AND DOIN, AND THE OTHER LADY ON HERE THAT ARE DEALING WITH ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR LIKE THIS FROM OUR CHILDREN??!!

If it was a partner, I could call the police, and get them removed, and get an injunction, and call Women's Aid. Who do I call when it's my child, and the police aren't interested unless I or the other DC's are in IMMEDIATE risk (no such issues when it's an abusive partner) and what is the alternative to WA when it's your child?

I don't get it - those of us on the boards here CAN'T be the only people in the country dealing with this, so why is it so quiet on the subject?

I guess it's because it's impossible to go to the media with it, because who wants to splash their family problems over the media like that? So no publicity. She's still my child, despite the fact that she's acting like this, and there's still that part of me that wants to shield her from that.

But I'm beginning to feel like there is nowhere to turn.

The duty SW last night could not believe how LITTLE DD gave a shit about coming home, and how motivated she is by getting only what SHE wants, by doing ONLY what she wants. She says normally the hope of getting home to their family is eventually a motivator, but that. DD doesn't HAVE that motivation because she JUST DOESN'T CARE where she is as long as there are no boundaries, an unlimited supply of money, and someone running around after her doing her washing, making her meals, acting like bloody 5 star hotel staff for her, and that's ALL she wants, and she doesn't expect to have to do ANYTHING to 'earn' all this, she wants it there 24/7 no matter how she behaves and no matter how little SHE does to help that.

DD wants a slave service that comes with a million pounds at her disposal and no boundaries placed on her. Anything less is dismissed and will not be countenanced...

She thinks she's some kind of fucking princess. I'm fucking raging tbh.

I HAVEN'T brought any of my DC's up to behave like this, and frankly at the moment she is a fucking embarrassment to me. To behave the way she has towards the FC's, to throw away the opportunities I've fought so fucking hard to get for her over the last 15 years, to throw away a loving family home for the sake of not getting life gifted to you on a fucking plate and being expected to have some basic respect for other people, her current behaviour is disgusting me.

I love her to pieces, I know she is struggling, I'm perfectly willing to try to work on this with her, but there's no point when she is unwilling to do one bloody iota towards fixing things.

She cares about the fact that I will get fined if she doesn't attend school...but not ENOUGH to stop her from doing what SHE wants to do, not ENOUGH to stop her from bunking school or refusing to go.

I fought so fucking hard to get her every drop of SEN help I could get from the system, and she has chucked that back in everyone's faces.

I go out of my way to sort out the fact that she can't cope with the stress from her H&S care exam, get the school to drop it ( no mean feat at this point in Y11...) and she gives less than a crap.

She REFUSES to think beyond the end of this week - and even then only in terms of her social life, as in "I WILL go out on Thursday, I WILL go out on Friday, I WILL go out on Sunday, and you WILL give me all the money I want to do so or I won't go to school and then you will have to pay a fine" with a fucking laugh at her attempt to financially have me over a barrel.

I am sore sick of it.

Well, she left the house at 8.30, an hour late, after shouting and swearing at me for refusing to be her servant and make her breakfast - I only make 3yo DS3's, the others are all old enough to make a sandwich / a bowl of cereal / toast.

Then she tried to get DS1's iPod out of him by menacing him, obviously I stepped in, but got called all the names under the sun and DS1 ended up locking himself in his room again.

He changes as soon as she starts acting like this, from a happy-go-lucky boy toy a depressed downtrodden one.

She left, and she actually went to school - not in uniform as she seemingly has thrown her school trousers in the bin as "school is pointless, so I don't need the uniform, I don't give a shit if I'm in ISO". And "ISO is just a place for me to stay warm until I go out with my mates after school, they will keep me in a warm room, why should I wait around in the cold for them".

So she's only gone to school to kill time till her friends are free.

She has said she will refuse to get into the transport after school because she's going out with her mates, and nobody can stop her, she can do what she wants as it's not as if anyone's allowed to hurt her to get her to do what she wants though I bloody might if she carries on!!!.

She gives not two shits for any sort of authority. And she is SOOOOOOO like my Mother. They say stuff like this skips a generation.

Waiting for pre booked social worker appointment. I'm going to refuse to have her home again. It's their issue now - I don't care if they make it NOT voluntary FC, I'm past caring if I lose PR.

I can do NOTHING more to help her without affecting my other DC's because she won't engage with the help I'm fighting for. Not unless she gets everything SHE wants...

The FC is 100% backing me up, she's a bloody lovely woman. I've told her to please not resign over my DD, there's plenty of other teenagers she CAN help, who will be more receptive than my DD, but tbh I think my DD is BEYOND help at the moment.

,Maybe if the help had come ten years ago, it MIT have had an effect, but SS, health and education have been passing the buck for so long that it's too late to help her, I fear.

So how much money does your DD have in her pocket at this minute?

Good. She is out of the house. Lock the door and do not let her in !
Why should your Ex let her in ? He doesn't live with you, does he ?
If she is going out with her " mates" someone will give her a sofa/ floor for the night.

Hope you had a productive meeting with the social worker.

she has PDA and is on the autistic spectrum - she will not give a shit. she will not give a shit because she has PDA and is on the autistic spectrum.

Its like blaming someone with dementia for not remembering who you are.

She needs help tailored to the disability. i think PDA is the hardest thing on the spectrum to work with.

Do the social worker and FC understand what she has?

couthy is nto that the police dont give a shit - but she is a minor, police powers on detaining minors are limited and police have to follow the childrens act. They cant just take her away because you cant deal with her behaviour.
im sure there are services for parents whose children are abusive.
here

parent line is one i refer people to - ok so im doing a lot of googling and finding help lines - it may be of sod all use - but worth a try? just to speak to someone in the same boat, get some advice?

couthy - i know its hard and you feel worn down and like you are going around in circles, but people on here are really trying to help and give advice that might be of some use....its hard because everything anyone suggests seems to be no good.

for me, college would have to just wait, if its a fast track course then surely its run again in 6 months? is it the only course? could not just talk to your tutor? i can understand why you are saying you dont want her to ruin this but the fact is she IS ruining so much more, her family life, her education, she is already in the criminal justice system, its a slippery slope if she does not get the help from now on.

bottom line is she needs a diagnosis. If not she just gets treated and seen as another unruly teenage girl.

and i keep harping back to your gp - but if i were you i would be speaking to the practice manager. it would not cost them anything to simply make the referral to a psychologist. you have to ask the WHY they wont.
if they cant do this in the time you have then you need to focus on whatever agency CAN diagnose her - CAMHS. She is in serious shit now and just because she hasnt got the capacity to realise it doesnt mean she should be written off by them.

She is at risk in FC if she is not diagnosed. The FC is already fed up. If she continues like this she will end up in a childrens home, and trust me, you dont want that for her. not at her age. In not ssaying this to scare you, but the reality is that without a dx she will just be another one lost in the care system, then the criminal justice system. i see it all the time. i know she isnt making it easy to fight for her, or put her first and foremost, but she needs that dx.

Hi Couthy I haven't read all the posts but spotted that you have the help of MIT . What do they do? Are they any good. My DD has just been expelled from school and I have changed the locks on the door so she can't come home.

It's the most desperate feeling in the world

We will hear today if we can get funding for MIT

Can your ex not look after the litte dc at his house when you are at college? If not I would tell him to put the lights out at the front of the house and not answer the door at all. Surely he can do that?

Tell ss she is not your responsibility anymore. Refuse to open the door to her if she turns up. It sounds hard but I don't think you have any other option. She is a danger to your other children and you can't let her ruin their life's too.

He doesn't have a house, he has a room in a house share...

Believe it or not, she DID go to school. And after being spoken at all day by the junction etc...I've just got a text to say she has gone back to the FC!!

A breakthrough? She got in the transport provided...

Her dad is a no go. Just spoke to him - he's split up from super SM and is currently sofa surfing round god knows where...wonder she she gets this impulsiveness from...??!!

SM can't take her, she's still working plus dealing with their two DC's.

Fuck.

I KNOW she has PDA, but CAHMS don't assess for that here, it's the multi disciplinary team that ONLY deal with under 14's. So right now, until she hits adult services, there IS NOBODY TO DX HER. I've flipping tried for years, you only have to search my Freds on SN on here...

At least I know where she is tonight...at least for now...and she is rural so walking off is going to be more problematic.

Vicar - can you point me to some resources on how to deal with PDA behaviours? Might help me a bit...

The SW this morning was aghast, and she's thrown her hands up as she can't see what they can do unless. DD engages with the help that's being offered to her.

The only suggestion was to call the police as an abscond every time she refuses to get into the transport from school. YOTS will then pick it up, as she's on the 6 month referral order.

They are sending Dbit into the school on a day (yet to be specified) that she turns up. Dbit are coming out to see me tomorrow morning.

I can't leave the college. The cost of the fees alone is £238. Can't just put myself in debt, just have to keep on trucking.

Even the SW said "so you are there for your DC's, you are there for your brother, you are there for your ex...who is there for you?"

In my head, my only answer was MN. Out loud, nobody.

There IS nobody in RL to support me. Just me. Without MN I think I would have cracked up years ago trying to deal with DD, and especially the last few weeks.

To all of you that are trying to help, I am trying to take your suggestions on board, even if I have to adapt them a bit to fit in with the circumstances of my complex family needs...

I know I might seem a bit pig headed on the college thing, but it is actually my ONLY break from the DC's, and a bit of adult conversation, I'm doing really well, I need to get these qualifications - it doesn't run again until September, at which point I need to be doing my English GCSE. I NEED English, Maths and Science grade C GCSE or above just to get a checkout job in my town, they don't even look at applications without that as there's 300+ applicants for every entry level job here.

And it's something for ME. As hard as it is, it's keeping me a bit saner. I'm not willing to let go if that, not for anyone.

And I've not got the £238 either!!

I've had to give up college three times in the past 15 years because of caring for DD, and once because of my health. This is my fifth try at getting qualifications, I want to prove to myself that I can do it, show the DC's how much I value qualifications, and I want the bloody bits of paper!!

i do feel for you Couthy i really do.

DS was dx at a specialist centre and they did a lot of work with and on PDA.

he was dx by liz newson at this place here is some info on PDA

and here are the contact details of the centre.

nottinghamshire.familyservicedirectory.org.uk/kb5/nottinghamshire/fsd/organisation.page?id=CEr4PfhW2Ow

they were brilliant. Liz herself saw ds but her staff were fabulous and really helpful on the phone.
why dont you give them a call and pick their brains - they do a lot of information and training leaflets etc and they may even be able to help you find someone local who might help dx her before she hits adult services.

because PDA is on the spectrum there has to be a psychologist with a specialism in ASDs somewhere in your area....even if it just to get some advice.

hope that helps. its really encouraging that she has gone back to FC and got into the taxi, i think it will be 3 steps forward and 2 back for a while to come....

Thank you, Vicar.

I have to go out away my shopping now, at least the fridge & freezer stuff, but I'll try to get back on after I ring DD and before I go to College. At least I get a break from College next week as it's half term.

(No early mornings but no break from the. DS's. Wonder how half term will go, with the different dynamic?)

Do you think I could get some advice from NAS? There is a branch in my town that I might be able to get to in half term?

definitely - the NAS has always been helpful when i have contacted them. call them and explain first and see what they can offer advice wise.

but if you can i would call elizabeth newsons diagnostic centre - the address and phone number are on the second website i linked above - its the same address as when ds was dx so they are obviously still there....they were so helpful when we were going through the mill and they contacted school and sent them a bundle of info - i hoped it would carry more weight coming from them than me. I think liz newson was one of the first to spot that PDA was a different condition on the spectrum and she is an expert in the field of ASD, - her own DS has AS i believe.

try both. cant hurt can it.

Willing to try anything, Vicar. Even snake oil seems more promising that the current situation...

Couthy

NAS are good but this organisation is even better when you're dealing with adolescent mental health

www.youngminds.org.uk/

They will listen and may suggest that you have a free on-line consultation with one of their volunteer child and adolescent psychiatrists or psychologists.

This is the organisation that helped me when DS was unwell.

Couthy, I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, but couldn't think of a darn thing to post that would be in any way helpful to you.

I am in awe of your tenacity and courage.

^^ what Clam said.

I've lurked and wanted to post so many times but don't have anything even remotely helpful to say, other than your strength and dignity throughout all of this is awesome.

I truly hope you get the peace and respite you so desperately deserve, the way you and your DC have been shifted from pillar to post is just horrendous.

It is evident from this thread and other peoples threads, that some kids
would be better at secure boarding schools.

These schools would enable pupils who struggle in normal everyday environments , the chance to learn until there are 18 with proper trained staff. The pupils would benefit from structured caring environments and the pressure would be taken of the families.