I'm done

[CouthyMow]

DD school refused this morning. First she refused to give DS1 back his iPod that he had kindly lent to her yesterday because hers is broken.

I insisted she give it back. She then decided

[CouthyMow]

(Don't worry about the insomnia, I can get a fuck off lie in tomorrow morning as Ex has DS2 & DS3 at his, so I can stay in bed as long as I want - DS1 is going to his dad's tomorrow, he's leaving at 10am, he has his bus fare and phone sorted, so the only thing I have to do tomorrow is sleep and finish the College work I started and abandoned whilst trying to find DD.

[gamerchick]

Why are you getting anything for her birthday? She doesn't deserve anything but a tent in the garden to live in.

[Timetoask]

Sorry to hear your saga continues, but you sound very strong, I hope it works out.
Your DD sounds incredibly entitled (expects iPod, expects money, etc), I know some teenagers are entitled because that is the way life is! Please don't take this in the wrong way I know you have a lot go on already,but isn't this expectation there because maybe you gave in to her demands and gave her too much stuff when she was growing up? If this is the case, please be careful about how much you give your younger dc, you don't want to repeat the pattern with them.

I think in today's society we seem to think that children are allowed to decide what they should and should not have, but parents need to keep the control. I know your dd appears to be on the spectrum which makes it really hard, I have as son with special needs and a demanding nature, even more important to have strict boundaries.
I have read several threads here on mum sent about pocket money for example: a mum giving her 6 year old child 10 pounds a week. I make my 6 year old earn things, I have him £10 when he passed his music exam to show him that you need to work hard to earn things.

Good luck with everything, I think you will come out the other side stronger than ever. Your DD is lucky to have such a strong mum.

[flow4]

The YOT/EP development sounds positive, Couthy. :) The rest of it sounds less good - not bad, but a bit "same pls, same old; here we go again". I'll keep my fingers crossed for you tomorrow.

I'm wondering... You are, clearly, an extremely strong woman. (So am I). You also clearly have an intense relationship with your first-born. (So do I). The teenage years are all about separating emotionally from parents and becoming independent, and it has occurred to me before that children who have strong relationships with strong mothers may have 'further to go' to grow up, and may feel (unconsciously) they need to fight to break free. When my DS1 was your daughter's age, I certainly felt like he rejected everything I had to offer him or found it wanting, and that he rebelled about everything I thought was important, fought against all my expectations of him, and rejected all my personal values. It is hard for parents (and perhaps especially hard for single parents) not to have in their heads some notion of "a child of mine will be like this and do these sorts of things" - and a child who feels they need to fight for their independence has a pretty good template of how not to be, IYSWIM.

And it's hardest at 15-17 IMO, because you are still responsible for them, and can see they're still so young, and all the things you can possibly try to 'control' their behaviour give them the impression you are trying to hold them back and stop them growing up...

I think this is partly why Maryz's advice to 'detach' works well - because if you can manage it, you create a bit of emotional distance, and the child who previously felt s/he had to fight tooth and nail to break free now feels you may not fight tooth and nail to hang on to them.

My son was almost 17 when I had him arrested for assault and criminal damage, and refused to have him back (tho like you I let him home just before his birthday). I wonder whether it would be worth you trying some of the things I tried, which seemed to help us...?

Firstly, just the fact that we'd had a break from each other meant that we both began to imagine life living apart. I think this meant we both felt less panicky about the idea that we were condemned to live together for all eternity .

I re-negotiated some symbolic freedoms, using the birthday to do it. E.g. "Now you're 17, you can come home whatever time you like at weekends, so long as you let me know..." and "Now you're 17, I I know the extra year is significant and you'll need to find your own appropriate 'freedoms', but generally, I took my clues from him - i.e. I relaxed the rules where he had been fighting me most.

After he'd felt the benefit of these freedoms, I announced some up-coming responsibilities, e.g. "When you're 18, I won't give you pocket-money" and "This summer, since you're 17, I expect you to get a holiday job if you want more than £5/week"...

I talked often about "When you leave home..." and "When you have your own place...". This was sometimes part of a nag - e.g. "When you leave home you can make as much mess as you like, but meanwhile..."! - but I also tried to use it positively - e.g. "When you leave home, where do you think you'd like to live?" I honestly think that, deep-down, my son thought I was never going to let him grow up, so imagining an independent future helped a lot to make him feel he didn't have to fight me so hard.

I reckon some/all of this might be worth trying with your DD, Couthy...? :)

[soul2000]

Couthy. I have to ask Could DD not redo Yr11 next year, surely she is not emotionally ready to leave school.

Would the school not consider readmitting her based on her learning difficulties (20 Hours Support rather than usual 15 hours per week maximum). I believe she would be better concentrating on English/Maths and making Level by level progress slowly but vital to her future.

[CouthyMow]

Flow - believe it or not, that's what I've been doing for the last year. I think though, that in my DD's case, the thought of leaving home in itself is making her feel anxious, her need for independence struggling in a battle against her need NOT to have any changes in her life...

No, her school won't let her redo Y11 - her school is an 11-16 school, no 6th form, so any pupils that need to do resits either do them at the 6th Form College or the big technical College.

My DD refuses to even THINK about a time where she might have to work, or leave home, it scares her too much, I think.

So she's fighting for independence when she doesn't actually WANT that independence!

[CouthyMow]

And the reason I got her a birthday present is because I didn't get anything from my parents from my 16th onwards, and it still smarts today. I can't do the same thing to my DD.

And they don't get loads of stuff - they get so little compared to their friends, their friends have things like iPads etc. Just because DD WANTS all these things, it doesn't mean she's going to GET them all, because I can't bloody afford them.

My younger DC's aren't the same as DD, despite being brought up the same. They don't have that same sense of 'entitlement' that DD seems to have. But with DD, frustrating as it is, it's because she doesn't grasp money that well.

Her Maths is a serious 'issue' - she couldn't count up money or use it until she was 13, so she doesn't grasp the 'meaning' of it yet. Most children can count up money and pay for things in shops from around 6/7, and understand 'money' from around 10, understand when you have got less than others, understand about bills, understand about not being 'entitled'. Unfortunately, she hit the 6/7yo stage at 13 - so I think she will probably hit the '10yo' stage at 16/17...

That's her LD's at play. Doesn't mean it's not frustrating as all Hell though...

[MrsBodger]

Thinking of you, Couthy. You are doing everything possible - and more. Wishing you all strength.

[CouthyMow]

I have an appointment with Dbit this morning, and then me and DD will be having a joint appointment with them when she gets home this afternoon. FC is dropping DD's stuff off this morning. I'm nervous about whether or not it's going to go well, seeing as DD doesn't seem to have taken anything on board if Saturday night was anything to go by. I just have to hope that somewhere in there is the sweet girl I occasionally see flashes of, before she loses it over something else she wants...

I've got my Ex being a nobhead again, keep saying that I can't manage the house and it's bad for the DC's - then in the same breath admitted that HE can't get any housework done himself if he is on his own with DS3, and that I manage to get far more done than he does, despite being physically disabled. He's here most of the time, my Ex, as I need the help with the kids as I'm in so much pain by the end of the day, but he does fuck all to help round the house now. He used to help far more before I moved house, but he complains that he can't remember where anything goes here, so it's hard for him to tidy up...change again, he has Autism, it took him 2 years to learn to help in the old house. Makes it so bloody difficult, as he also has dyspraxia too, and finds it difficult to 'order' jobs and prioritise them.

Then he has the gall to complain that the house isn't tidy enough! I had a long talk with him last night, and maybe something's got through. How I managed to pick 2/3 partners with Autism I'll never know!! It just makes things so much more difficult. He's getting overwhelmed again.

I can't afford a cleaner, since I lost my DLA, but it would make life so much easier. But there's just nowhere in the budget to find that money any more.

I KNOW he has Seasonal Affective Disorder, and gets depressed every winter, but he refuses to take AD's because tbh, last time he did, they actually sent him crackerjack, and he doesn't want to feel like that again, which I can understand. But FFS, arthritis is ALWAYS going to be worse in the winter, and I need his help more now.

My Ex has always been the one that IS looked after IYSWIM, and he can't seem to cope long term if HE needs to be the one doing the looking after. It's so frustrating!

Who is there to look after ME??!!

(Feeling a bit guard done by right now, as there doesn't seem to be any help for me, not for my disabilities, not for managing DD's behaviour, it's all geared towards trying to get DD to manage her life better. Where's MY help?!)

[CouthyMow]

My latest 'joke' (not really a joke, it is serious to me, and how I'm feeling right now) is that I will book a slot in my diary to have a breakdown, as it's the only way I'll ever be able to NOT be 'strong' for everyone else...

[MrsBodger]

Sorry - didn't mean to be glib.

This is all so wrong. Wish I could help.

[CouthyMow]

I'm actually serious on that - I've got my Ex to book 3 days off in the middle of the year so that I can book into a premier inn, by myself, so I can wibble and cry and sleep, without bothering anyone else! It's my birthday present to myself, as my birthday's in June.

It's the ONLY way I will get any time without any of the four DC's being with me.

Last time I had 24 hours without ANY children was almost 16 years ago. I've had at least one DC wit h me for sixteen years solid, without a single day where the house is empty for 24 hours in a row. I'm exhausted with it all.

[CouthyMow]

If DS2 and DS3 are with their Dad, and DS1 is with his dad, I've still had DD here.

If DD is at her Dad's, I've got DS1, DS2 and DS3 here. Maybe sometimes just DS1, but there's always SOMEONE.

Time to myself is an alien concept - I've not had a free 24 hours for my entire adult life, as I had DD at 16. Yes, it was my choice to continue with the pregnancy, heard it all before, but most parents get a big of a break with grandparents, or can leave their DC's with babysitters.

Have you SEEN the cost for a babysitter or Nanny who can deal with 4 DC's ALL with additional needs??!! You'd have to be a flipping millionaire!

My mother is not suitable to be with the DC's if it's not for short, SUPERVISED visits in my home, due to her alcoholism. My Dad is dead, has been for 22 years. Her Dad's parents are both dead, and her Dad lives 600+ miles away.

Not a single break!

[BonaDrag]

I'm sorry you're going through this. She doesn't deserve a birthday present. If she was mine she'd get a hiding.

[CouthyMow]

How is violence and aggression going to SOLVE violence and aggression?

[BonaDrag]

Jesus, sorry I spoke.

[CouthyMow]

No need to be narky, it's a genuine question, as I don't believe in violence and I don't believe that being violent and aggressive (which I really am not able to do, as I'm not violent or aggressive...) will in any way solve someone else's violent and aggressive behaviour. The thought confuses me. How can you show your child how to behave in a non-violent, non-aggressive way if you are showing them violence and aggression?

[Eastpoint]

Couthymow I'm pleased you've got something to look forward to even if it is a few months away, well done for getting that sorted. I don't have anything constructive to offer other than say is there anyway Kids Company can help? If you would like me to see if they offer any support in your area I can do some research for you so you can get on with your college work.

[BirthdayMuppet]

I expect that BonaDrag is just expressing frustration. I sometimes think 'ooh I could give you such a hiding!' when my two are playing up but I'd never actually do it. You are going through so, so much I don't know how you are still standing to be perfectly honest. But as an outsider, part of me wonders whether it's time to let the child you thought you had go. The one you had, and perhaps still have, all those hopes and dreams for. Because from what I see here, she is not NT and cannot function as if she is. You are starting to focus on what she is right now, and that's a good thing, it will give you more options going forwards. But I cannot begin to imagine what that must feel like on an emotional level, she is your baby, the one you held in your arms, and it must be heartbreaking.

[furlinedsheepskinjacket]

sorry can't offer anything in way of practical help/experience but wanted you to know am thinking of you all x

I too have made the breakdown crack when dd was younger :)

[SalaciousCrumb]

Hi Couthy, I suppose some children would be intimidated by the aggression and would be fear being hit again as a consequence your dd would probably see it as the red light to step it up she's on the spectrum FGS. What you're going through is so removed from many people's experiences & can only imagine they would show who's boss physically.

Just an idea - if you contact your local children's centre they may be able to refer you to some voluntary groups; my friend received help when her twins were little from a local group, just thinking of some help with your younger ones.

None of us know what we are letting ourselves in for whatever age we have dc ignore anyone who mentions you were only 16....

I know from reading your posts you are a very independent person not to mention very capable - can you think of anyone at all you can call on for help? A friendly person who if they knew what you are going through could offer you practical help?

[LastingLight]

Couthy did your dd come home last night? How did it go?

[Hels20]

Couthy - how is it going? Hope you are ok.

[CouthyMow]

Update : since DD came home, she has absconded 5 times, been excluded from school twice (for the last week and a half, she got herself excluded the first time within 24 hours of coming home), has been constantly rude and abusive, to the point of scaring DS2 and DS3, and the stupid fucking idiot is currently sat in a police cell awaiting someone from the appropriate adult service as I can't go to the interview with her as I have no Childcare for DS3.

She was picked up yesterday evening (she absconded after getting excluded again) for shoplifting FUCKING ICE CREAM FFS from Sainsbury's.

I couldn't go as I was on my own with the DC's last night.

I've actually given up.

Told SS after she got excluded yesterday that I wasn't going to have her back home. They have said that I "Can't dictate that to them". I pointed out that as it is my fucking house, and nobody is looking out for the interests of my other DC's (SW is just for DD), that actually, yes I CAN say that. They said that they still wouldn't accommodate DD.

Situation there was resolved by DD ending up in a Police cell. DD hadn't even known that I was refusing to have her home, as she had absconded so soon after being excluded.

I have suggested supported accommodation (there's three options, both within walking distance of me, once she is 16 at the weekend), that's been refused. They are refusing to put her back in FC.

And I'm refusing to have her home due to the fact that her behaviour hasn't changed at all, and yesterday after I got home from her exclusion meeting, I actually had a flash thought about walking in front of a car. I can't do that any more.

I WON'T walk in front of a car, but the very fact that it crossed my mind is enough. I can't do this any more.

Sorry for the lack of updates, I'm also trying to cope with my mother being abFucking selfish alcoholic drunkard bitch. Nothing unusual there!

[cory]

Stand firm, Couthy, you are doing the right thing.

Would it be possible to get some kind of medical evidence about how the situation is affecting your younger children?