My 14 Old Daughter Says She Wants to be a Boy

[Somebiscuits]

I have a dilemma. My daughter has expressed her dissatisfaction with many aspects of femininity before - periods for instance and the fact that women do not have true equality with men- and I have been very sympathetic. She doesn't like having breasts and quickly went from wearing ordinary bras to wearing sports bras. That was okay too.I suppose I was waiting for her to accept that she was growing up and mature a little bit.

However, recently she has announced that she has body dysmorphia and wants to be a male. She has asked to see a counsellor and last night asked me to buy bindings so she can flatten her breasts completely. I refused because I believe this could permanently damage her - she's still growing after all. She flew off the handle and now I don't know what to do.

The thing is I am pretty liberal and accepting and I would accept this more if she had a history of dressing or acting like a boy. She hasn't and has an interest in girls things like make up, hair and clothes. She is not gay. Her dislike of being female seems more to do with the physical and social aspects than a deep feeling that she was born in the wrong gender.

All this has left me very confused. I'm loathe to start her on counselling for fear she'll end up going down a particular path which I am not at all convinced is the right one. On the other hand I want to support her and the best I can for her while she finds out about herself. What should I do?

Hi mamaT, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. It is really difficult and confusing. If you go back and read the beginning of the thread, it seems that somebiscuits daughter no longer wants to be a boy, I don't know if that is still the case today. My daughter also wants to be a boy and it came out of nowhere for us. I often re-read this thread just to gain hope when I am finding things difficult. We have been in this situation for a year now and it has been awful, but I keep telling myself that only time will tell as I believe with my daughter it is an extreme reaction to puberty and growing up. I have copied some links for you that I have found helpful in trying to understand this change in my daughter which was really sudden.

I also started another thread which is called another teenage girl who wants to be a boy under the LGBT teen section.

thejungsoul.com/guidance-for-parents-of-teens-with-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/
m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hEMLbUxRQA
m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=
nymeses.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/advice-for-parents-of-teen-girls-and.html?m=1
www.transgendertrend.com/detransition/
thissoftspace.wordpress.com/about/
youthtranscriticalprofessionals.org/2016/11/18/a-teen-therapist-writes-about-gender-identity-issues-sallys-story/comment-page-1/#comment-676
ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2010.09091281
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/09540261.20m15.1111199

Quite a bit to plough through but I hope some of it is helpful.

I think it's a waiting game, which is the hardest thing to do.

Good luck x

All at sea pretty much posted what I would have done too. We are about a year into this with our 19 year old. We are holding our breath really - trying to wait it out. She now has effective medication for anxiety and depression, and a diagnosis of ASD which we hope in time will help her realise that there is nothing wrong with her that needs to be fixed with hormones and surgery. But in the meantime we use her preferred name and pronouns (very hard to do) and try and take things one day at a time. And keep everything as normal and non gender as possible. But it is very worrying - I am not sure who in the medical profession or elsewhere is going to challenge this madness. Thank god for the common sense and support of the lovely posters on Mumsnet (check out the Feminism Chat section if you want to be reassured that it isn't just you who thinks identity politics is screwing up the most vulnerable in the name of progress).

Thank you allatsea and stopmakingsense. I appreciate it and I will keep re-reading. I was just curious from all biscuits if after doing all of this waiting etc if as her daughter aged if she ended up with the same results after years. All I can console myself with that last thought...that the daughter would be making the decisions closer to an adult versus a 14 year old. Again, thank you for responding and I will absolutely look at your links and resources.

I too have very recently found out that my daughter (13) is confused about whether she is a boy or a girl. In total shock as I have also just found out that she has been self harming. It makes me sick with worry that I did not know she has been in such a turmoil. Any help gratefully received.

Unsure - welcome to the rapidly expanding club of bewildered parents. It is extremely difficult, and I too did not know my DD had been self harming before she told us about her gender difficulties.
It is referenced above but this is a good starting place:
thejungsoul.com/new-guidance-for-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/
There are several threads here which are worth reading through. Take care, take a deep breath and know you are not alone. All the best.

After having lived with this for a year now it's like everything has changed and nothing has changed. My daughter hasn't said that she has changed her mind and now feels like a girl, she also hasn't wanted to tell anyone else yet, this might be yet to come. My husband and I still refer to her using female pronouns and a shorter version of her name as her siblings, friends and family don't know yet. When she told us about her feelings it felt so definite and unchangeable that I felt totally floored, I imagined the horrors of surgery and hormones, of facing everyone and having to look the part of supportive, loving parent who didn't mind whilst inwardly dying of grief. This sounds dramatic but it is how I felt, like my world had ended and I had lost my daughter. I don't know where we will be this time next year. Maybe those things will happen and even though I know it will seem insurmountable I think I will be able to do it. However as time goes by I feel my daughter is so young and still developing that she may grow into herself and become at peace with who she is. I hope so as she is a kind and amazing person. The thing that has really helped her is the fantastic counsellor that she sees, who she says doesn't just agree with everything she says but challenges her and helps her to change her thinking. We have been referred to the Tavistock although I have said I won't give permission for any medical intervention, she is ok with that. I think it is really important to tell her that although I know that is how she feels now that she may change and develop further. She needs to be listened to and acknowledged but also needs a get out clause. So to anyone going through this, be kind to yourselves, try not to catastrophise and take each day at a time, really hard I know but I can't imagine that all of these girls will actually become boys. Hopefully one day they will be happy in their own skin.

I too am learning to live with uncertainty. Whatever happens and however hard this is for us as parents, it is much harder for the children themselves, and sometimes you do have to take it one day at a time. And just hope we all come out of this wiser and better.

I feel for you unsure! We are 2 1/2 weeks into knowing that our daughter wants to be a boy and it has been one of the longest times of my life. But what i have done is absolutely started looking into the resources above....and have allowed myself to be ok that I can mentally only do 1-2 things a day (vidoes, blog etc). My daughter has started counseling (1 session) and I have presented it as I want to make sure every aspect is addressed so that she can make an informed decision. I am wanting a counselor to look into possible underlying issues and to make my child feel like she is being heard....I am NOT ready for any transgender support groups etc that may influence her towards one way. I have asked her to find information to share with me and I will have something for her (being careful that my information is not completely one sided or she will shut me down). We have only officially done this one time but she knows I expect her to continue to do research and explain to me her side....which I am finding is not 100% concrete and is only surface information (well because she is 14 and I am not sure she knows herself everything that she feels). I am in the medical field so I am able to provide information on my concerns of harming her physical body and the possible side effects...and she is quick to remind me that it is not only physical but mental. I do understand this, but I am trying to make sure she understands all my concerns. Huh, and looking back on this post I look like I may have a good handle or concept of what I am doing...which is FAR from the truth. I cry daily and feel that my world is spinning. I am SO SO grateful for the list of resources from allatsea and have opened myself up to people including my gay and lesbian friends that I trust to help me....which I know is completely different than transgender but I know that the community is smaller than mine and they may have help and insight that I do not. I will definitely be continuing to follow this group as we need all the support we can get. We love our children and this is why it is all so hard.

My precious comments are here under JBro123...for some reason my old login did not work. I wish I had a better update. My DD is now 17 and we are 3 years into this. She continues to put no effort into "looking" like a boy but insists she is one and still wants us and others to concede to her desire for a different name and pronouns. We continue to call her a shortened version of her name and try to avoid pronouns altogether but if we "have" to we will use "they" as a gender neutral middle ground. My child continues to see a therapist and that therapist still believes this is a poor coping mechanism for adolescent discomfort mostly driven by ASD and need to fit into a peer group.

I am so tired of it. I know I should be grateful things really have not progressed but I am tired of treading water. She has one year of school left and I really can't see sending her off like this, despite her academic abilities. I just don't think she has the life skills needed to cope, or the desire to learn them.

Jbro/JAGB I know how you feel about being tired and treading water, and you have been going through this for longer. My DD went off to uni and it didn't go well, despite academic abilities (poor executive function, poor social understanding, poor mental health, inflexible thinking). So trying again this year, now with an ASD diagnosis and hopefully some support. What I wanted to say is that children with ASD are sometimes years behind their peers in terms of emotional maturity. So your DD may in fact be at the stage most children are at age 13-14, trying to work out how they fit in whilst simultaneously being expected to have the maturity of a 17-18 year old. Even more reason to put the brakes on any physical changes until they have figured themselves out. It sounds like she has a decent therapist tho which is something.

Stopmakingsense, thank you for your response. I am glad your daughter is on medication to help with the anxiety and depression. I definitely believe antidepressants keep my daughter from falling into the abyss.

You are so right about emotional and social maturity. That has always been an issue for my kid, in addition to having difficulty with change, inflexible thinking, etc, I just never before felt like I was living in the Bizarro World! And while I know it is not right or fair to compare, I look at my 11-year-old son and see a kid who is honestly leagues ahead of his sibling in those areas, despite her being 5.5 years older.

What I am trying to do now is parent her more from a place of support and acceptance, a common theme I am seeing in parenting programs designed for helping kids with ASD, ADHD, etc. It is hard to switch gears when I am much more of a "tell it like it is" type of parent. I attempt to try to see things from her perspective which is really hard since I just don't think like she does! There is an organization called Asperger's Experts and I am considering buying some of their programs as it is a) run by people who either are on the spectrum or have experience with those who do and b) the scenarios they describe are eerily similar to what many of us here describe, without the gender identity issue: inflexible thinking, fixation on internet, a social difficulty, trouble with emotional regulation, etc. According to these ASD experts, CBT therapy, social skills classes, and all these other external resources tend not to work because the ASD person suffers from sensory overload and is in Defense Mode, therefore not receptive to the lessons at that point. According to them, the best approach is to try and help coax them out of Defense Mode first and then they'll be motivated to gain these other skills on their own. Of course, it is a long, slow process but at this point I figure we have nothing to lose.

I've seen some of those Asbergers Expert information - there's stuff on youtube. I like The Girl with the Curly Hair (she has a book called "Asbergers and Me" - which I did persuade my DD to read (she usually dismisses books about girls as being not relevant). She has a paid for service and runs some courses - is on Facebook too. She is very straightforward about her difficulties with gender and sexuality, also mental health problems. She came to the conclusion that she is no particular gender - just a person in a female body - perfect!!

Support and acceptance is the way to go - even if transition is the end result. I feel fortunate that we have had an extra half a year with DD at home, building her confidence with no external pressures, helping her gain skills for life and enjoying her company really. Yes I think she is out of Defense Mode so more capable of rational decisions. She is on the waiting list for the gender clinic so every extra day that goes by learning to understand herself (and this new ASD diagnosis) first is precious.

You are a really good mom, Stopmakingsense. I just feel in my gut that any sort of gender transition would be wrong and disastrous and have a difficult time having any sort of acceptance for that scenario and I am sure that is the source for a lot of underlying tension between my daughter and me.

I have heard about the Girl with the Curly Hair and have seen some of her drawings. My daughter, like yours, doesn't see things that are skewed toward females as being relevant so I have been hesitant to buy the book. I have a veritable library of Asperger's resources on my bookshelf that she has no interest in reading. But, there is always hope that as she gets older she opens herself up to wanting to learn more about the diagnosis and not just use the label as an excuse like she does currently.

That is interesting about gender and sexuality and coming to conclusion of being a person in a female body. Honestly, that is how I feel about gender and I don't even have ASD!

I was a bit naughty and said the book has been recommended by a friend with a son with Asbergers, so she agreed to read it. But I genuinely wanted a book I could help me understand her, so asked her could she read it first and see if it rang true, and she said yes it did. Not that is has made much difference yet...
I am not a good Mum at all - I spend most of my time obsessing and reading blogs (instead of working). A year on and at least I am better able to discuss it with friends etc without bursting into tears.
There is a generational thing too - her siblings are (at least for now) completely fine with the whole thing. Just call her by her new different name and use male pronouns without turning a hair. My other DD has a good friend whose boyfriend is now a she (how rare is this supposed to be [hmmm]). They don't have the profound unease of the cognitive dissonance of being expected to believe your biologically female child is actually a boy.

Stopmakingsense--I have done the exact same as you with worrying, obsessively researching and crying. In fact, it has probably only been in past few months that I don't cry daily.

I am glad our kids have acceptance from their peers but I cannot help but to think this obsession with gender identity is bad for society in general and, down the line, is going to result in confusing public and personal records, badly constructed public policies and many physically and emotionally harmed individuals who have trans regret. I used to consider myself a very liberal person but the more I read about this issue, including the "science" that allegedly supports the idea of dozens of complex gender identities and sexualities, the more ridiculous it all seems, as though we are trying to come up with biological reasons to come up with every human variance, normalize it and give it a special label. We seem to be advocating openess to new ideas without applying any critical thinking to evaluate whether the ideas are actually true or useful.

I am completely with you there, but for obvious reasons don't discuss with DD - I don't want to alienate her. There must be some individuals for whom hormones and surgery is a good option to resolve intractable body issues (so a small part of me is trying to be ready for that to apply in our case, but the rest of me is screaming "no") .

Other than that it is the most regressive, sexist, harmful postmodern ideology which seems to have been swallowed whole or not thought through by the medical profession and politicians. I have written to my MP who is sympathetic but pessimistic about the general consensus. And I am so grateful to Mumsnet feminists and the journalists who are beginning to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

I am a bit conflicted about the Gender Identity Bill - in that if my DD persists and can live happily with a changed name and pronouns in her preferred gender without feeling that hormones and surgery are inevitable, then that is better than irreversible changes, which should be reserved only for those who cannot live any other way. Although that is of course possible now, as long as you don't want to change your birth certificate (she has already changed her name and gender by deed poll). Then this might blow over with as few victims of unnecessary intervention as possible.

That only works if as a society we uncouple gender from biological sex. Which - go figure - means people living without reference to stereotypes - isn't that what we all want? Instead of all this quasi religious "innate" gender identity being treated as a biological problem. We are down the rabbit hole, but it is good to know that we are all screaming in the dark together!!

I also avoid talking about identity politics and my feelings on it because it only seems to stir the pot. I try to make comments about positive female portrayals in movies, etc. I made a big deal out of Zendaya's character in Spider Man: Homecoming. The character was smart and independent, not at all vain (no makeup) and has a unique sense of style. She played a "weird" girl with confidence. My daughter agreed and said it was her favorite character in movie. I guess I am always wishfully thinking she'll have this "a ha" moment.

Sometimes I worry it will just carry on like this forever and she'll stay stuck as "The weird girl who thinks she is a boy but confuses everyone with her nail polish, scarves, purses and hats." The neighbors, school guidance counselor and her school peers, while respectful of her feelings and go along the best they can, are baffled, especially when the only thing she focuses on is names and pronouns. It seems to only make sense to her, the kids at school with similar issues and her online friends. To my knowledge none of these other kids have desisted yet. I often wonder what will happen when the first one breaks free. Will the others follow soon after?

You mentioned about a daughter's friend who had a BF who became a girl? In our area here in the US I am hearing about this stuff all the time. Shocks me that this "rare" occurrence keeps popping up and hardly anyone questions it!

I don't think we'll ever be "gender free" as a society but like you said, focusing on biological sex as the main definer only makes sense. And if people fall outside the gender stereotypes assigned to their sex, so what?!

When I was that age, I had heavy, flooding periods, griping period pains and a talent for science.

The boys had it so much better.

If I had the option, I would have tried to 'trans' too.

However, basic genetics will win out.

I'm less than five feet tall and red haired. My life would have been hellish if had become a boy.

Short men, middle aged men, fey men and men with red hair are targets for abuse.

Imagine that combo in one chubby little package.

Gingernaut- you sound like an adorable little leprechaun! 😊

I hear you with "options". As I have said before, my DD would still be having a crappy time in adolescence even without gender ideology and a fantasy of becoming a flat chested boy! It would have been some other unhealthy fixation and I'd still be worried and would have no clue how much worse it could be.

I think you are right; for the vast majority genetics and basic biology will win. It's just scary to be the parent of a kid who may go too far and get affirmation from the med community to go further. I was shocked when my kid insisted on a name and pronoun change and that has been difficult enough!

I look like a leprechaun in civvies. And an English accent....😳

Hi is anyone still on this thread? I can't seem to find the end of it on my phone! My dd is 15 and just told me that she is trans and cannot stand her body or being called her name or the pronouns she/her. She hides her chest in baggy tops, hates going to women's public bathrooms, and wants to eventually transition. She has had quite a traumatic childhood esp with relation to her father.
I've told her she can talk to me and I will help her with anything but inside I'm panicking.

Hello zephrcat. Didn't want to leave your post unanswered. There is another thread in LGBT children with lots of information and helpful links too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/2891898-Another-teenage-girl-who-want-to-be-a-boy
Can't give any specific advice because everyone is different but I know how you must be feeling. We are about a year in with our 19 yr old. I think your instinct is right to be supportive and loving but sceptical (and terrified) too, as you have just arrived into an alternative universe. In our case the announcement came after a period of severe anxiety and depression, the principle cause of which we now know was undiagnosed autism (has now been diagnosed). Gender difficulties are fairly common in people with autism. Medication and CBT has worked well for the anxiety, so at least there is scope for rational thought. We don't know where this will end. I hope that it won't end in surgery and/or lifelong hormones - but if it does then we will love and support her still. Best of luck to you both.

I also have a 15 year old DD who thinks she is
Have a look at the blog 4thwavenow.com. There is an excellent post by aom whose daughter eventually desisted.

Hi all. I have just joined Mumsnet.
2 weeks ago My 14 year old daughter announced that she wants to be a boy. Completely out of the blue. Apparently she has been having chats with a school counselor and they support her. So last week I was called in to a meeting at her school to be met with a social worker and other people to be told that if I don’t support her decision I will loose her! That there is a drop in center she can go to and there is a live in this weekend that she should go to.
It all feels like a done deal. My daughter has spoken about medication and surgery and I feel completely helpless as to what to do or say.
I have read loads but still need to find out more. I am disturbed at the seemingly growing numbers of girls in this age group that are suddenly going through this. And the fact that as parents I feel we loose the right of our children in this matter.
I have cryed so much over this that all I can try to do is read and find out more.
We left Uk 6 years ago to live abroad and know my daughter in her mind struggles to fit in. Although she does lots of activities and has friends all over the place. She is confident and bright and does really well at school but she has always wanted to be center of attention which pushes people away. I have seen it happen countless times.
Anyway. Sorry to go rambling on. I’m just trying to get my head around lol of this. As my world has been turned upside down in the last 2 weeks.

My2kids Please re-post this over on the feminism support board - there you will find a plethora of support and advice and experience from other parents in the same situation.

I am horrified that the school and social services have made you feel that you will loose her - this is madness. Utter madness.

(Are you in South Wales? Pockets of this madness is happening near me).

This is spreading like a social contagion.