Parental order for donor embryo

[KazBuck]

Ok I was wondering if anyone can give me advice. I was thinking to use a surrogate with a donor embryo but when looking at getting a parental order the child must be biologically related to the intended parents… Surely there must be a way around this ? I know I should speak to a solicitor and I’m waiting on a call just wondered if anyone has any experience with this topic x

She would be the parent, just as much as adopting.

Well not really @custardpyjamas. Not unless a court agrees that she can adopt a child whose birth she has commissioned, but who has no biological link to.

Adoptive parents are parents but they have become so due to the breakdown of the biological parents' ability to care for their child. They are an attempt by society to correct a harm which has already occurred to the child. It's disingenuous to compare that to the creation of a child on purpose, whose biological ties will be broken.

I'm not wholly against all forms of surrogacy - I can see how it would work well if one sister ties it for another, for example. But it's messy and prone to exploitation and potential harm to all participants. It's not to be encouraged or treated as a perfectly legitimate option in all circumstances imo.

To me, I think a mother is a woman who is either raising the baby and is the genetic parent (even if she wasn't pregnant herself) or the woman who is raising the baby and was pregnant, even if she isn't the genetic parent.
I struggle to see how a woman who is neither the genetic parent or pregnant is a mother. It's harsh but her hand in the creation begins and ends with money - that's purchasing to me, not parenthood.

How would she be?

To me, I think a mother is a woman who is either raising the baby and is the genetic parent (even if she wasn't pregnant herself) or the woman who is raising the baby and was pregnant, even if she isn't the genetic parent.

So women who adopt children aren’t mothers then?

I'm talking specifically about surrogacy or receiving donor embryos @Simonjt
Adoption is different - those children already exist and need new families, but there's no pretence that the biological family isn't important or has no significance to the children involved.

Mine sent too!

There is a way. Since you have no genetic link to the child, you would be applying for an adoption order instead of a parental order. There are lawyers who can help you on this. Try Harjit Sarang.

Ignore all the naysayers. This forum is not moderated and full of people against surrogacy. Ignore them who accuse you saying you are not ready to be a parent. Save your breathe. You don't owe them an answer. They are not replying to the question you posted.

MN is driving people away. They are against anyone who earn over minimum wage. Anyone earning over £100k dare to complain should die. Oh and surrogacy, MN think it is illegal. MN is seriously driving normal users away. It is very backwards.

Thank you for a voice of reason

Lol. As if it's simple to apply for an adoption order. No chance at all for this scenario.

so helpful that we have an expert on all adoptions here 🙄

I know multiple people personally who have done surrogacy with kids who are not genetically linked to them. Judgemental people like the people attacking OP instead of answering the question, is driving people into closed discussion. There are multiple FB groups on this. You can hear from real people on their journey. Definitely contact a specialist lawyer.

Are you (and they) in the uk? The legislation requires a genetic link to at least one of the couple in order for a parental order to be made. Without this parenthood can’t be transferred to them. There is a problem with people not realising they need a parental order, or having surrogacy abroad that doesn’t comply with our legislative requirements for the order.

Sorry I have seen you do know this and are talking about adopting

Are these people you know adopting these children or applying (or have applied and been granted) a parental order? A genetic link to at least one person who applies for the parental order needs to be genetically related to the child.

This is not conjecture, this is the law.

If they have a child through surrogacy they are not related to then they have either done this outside of the UK or they are breaking UK law and will have no legal parental rights recognised in the UK.

One doesn't need to be an expert, the law is incredibly clear and simple. No genetic link, no order.

Anyone claiming they know people doing it are in another jurisdiction, or they're lying.

"MN is driving people away. They are against anyone who earn over minimum wage. Anyone earning over £100k dare to complain should die. Oh and surrogacy, MN think it is illegal. MN is seriously driving normal users away. It is very backwards."

Many posters from the multiple surrogacy threads I have done over the years has had comments from those in professional careers in the law or a related medical field and also social workers.

These posters are still here so that comment about MN driving people away based on low income or their profession is just nasty nonsense. But income is relevant in surrogacy so you're right there. (Low income women vs high income baby buyers. I don't think the OP has said who or where the embryo has come from and I note a distinct lack of consideration for the child she hopes to be born from this embryo.)

MNers know the law on surrogacy, they know what is legal and what is illegal, as is clear from this thread. Surrogacy has been debated on many a thread from both the legal and ethical perspective since before I arrived here.

Speaking about ethics isn't 'backward'. Implying those with concerns or views on how unethical it is suggests we are behind the times or old fashioned or even bigoted and frankly we have been there, done that.

It didn't work then and it won't work now.

Stop spreading fake news. Surrogacy aboard with no genetic links have happened. A lawyer can help with the adoption order.

So these 'surrogacy' arrangements with two non-genetic parents obtaining parental rights have taken place abroad, not in the UK.

An adoption order in the UK isn't a parental order, they follow very different processes and are managed under separate laws.

It would be misleading to compare them, given these differences and when the OP refers to surrogacy, but parental rights can be secured through adoption, which the OP could pursue. That wouldn't be surrogacy though.

This week I have read about 3 experiences on various social media forums and I wanted to share.

1. A couple have a donor conceived baby with a sperm donor. The sperm donor is the father of the husband. The child is raised by his half brother, believing him to be his Dad and his social auntie is his genetic half sister. His genetic father is actually his social grandfather.

1. A married woman knows she is donor conceived early on in life. As an interesting and fun thing to do she does a DNA test with her husband. It turns out they are related as half siblings. His Dad is her genetic father, he had never revealed to his family that he donated sperm. The couple have two children and are going to counselling so to learn about ways of telling them this important information on their genetic background.

1. A couple have a child conceived with both donor egg and donor sperm and was born to a surrogate mother. (This is not a UK story.) They know about the ‘sibling pod’ from the genetic mother but not from the genetic father. They have embryos on ice which they own and are full genetic siblings of their child. They are pondering the ethical dilemma of potentially donating the embryos to someone else, like the OP, and what that would mean for the child as another child resulting from that would be the full genetic sibling of they child being raised elsewhere.

You're right, people do buy babies in dodgy foreign clinics. Not something to boast about though.

I don't see any boasting