Parental order for donor embryo

[KazBuck]

Ok I was wondering if anyone can give me advice. I was thinking to use a surrogate with a donor embryo but when looking at getting a parental order the child must be biologically related to the intended parents… Surely there must be a way around this ? I know I should speak to a solicitor and I’m waiting on a call just wondered if anyone has any experience with this topic x

@AccidentallyWesAnderson i am aware thanks very much. I’ll be leaving the conversation now as I am getting very bored of listening to the same thing over and over and over again.

I completely understand your point. At the heart of it, procreation is an inherently selfish thing to do for all adults, really, is t it?

I firmly agree that there are double standards and it seems unfair that inadequate parents seem to get a better deal.

Not sure what the answer is though? A parenting licence? Psychological evaluation throughout parenthood? Regular parenting classes?

Having never known one of my parents, and been legally adopted by an abusive step parent at aged 9, I still think that complicating matters with the ethical, legal and biological mess that surrogacy presents is not going to improve the lives of children.

@NorthernGirl1981 do you judge parents who bring children into poverty? Substance abuse? Overcrowding? Dysfunctional relationships? Violence?

I find it bizarre that there was a recent thread by someone whose 15 year old daughter was pregnant. I think it turned out to be a troll, but that’s beside the point. The interesting thing was that most posters told her to support her daughter in whatever she wanted to do, and that it was fine for children to have babies, children can be brilliant parents, life for all concerned can be great. The few people who advocated termination were seen as being heartless.

People who post on here worrying about being pregnant , given that they have no money, no support, and violent partner etc are congratulated on their pregnancy!

My kids are donor conceived as I was single. They have received love and care from me and my family from birth. They have never had to lie in bed crying and listening to their parents yelling at each other. I ensured I was financially secure before having them. I don’t drink, I don’t take drugs, I don’t bring men back, I haven’t attempted to “blend” the family with another man, I support my kids in all their interests. Do people really think that I shouldn’t have had kids, because they don’t know their father? Does the lack of a biological father cancel out all the other good things in their lives?

Does the lack of a biological father cancel out all the other good things in their lives?

Of course not.

But all the good things in their life don’t make up for the fact they don’t have a father.

They aren’t mutually exclusive, it doesn’t have to be or another.

I’m sure your child is very loved, happy and fulfilled, I don’t think anyone on here would ever doubt that, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t missed out on not having a father.

But that’s just my opinion, and many other people will have a different opinion, and that’s fine.

The world is made up of a million different opinions. Each one of lives by our own code of what we think is right or wrong and it doesn’t matter what anybody else thinks about the decisions we make about our lives.

And with regards to all the other examples you gave, I do find it hard to understand how some people choose to have children in the situations you describe. Children shouldn’t be purposefully bought into unsafe and damaging environments.

Those situations don’t have anything to do though with my opinions on the importance of a child having both a biological mother and father in their life.

They are unrelated topics.

Does the lack of a biological father cancel out all the other good things in their lives?

It has had a significantly negative effect on me, and my ability to form healthy relationships. I'm only one of course but it remains true nonetheless.

I’m sorry to read this. My friend’s child doesn’t have a father as he left when my friend was pregnant, and it has had a significant effect on the child.

For some reason fathers are viewed as being disposable when in reality they play a very vital role in a child’s emotional well-being and development. They are no less significant than a mother, they just play a different role.

My heart goes out to children who have to grow up without a mother, but I also feel just as much sadness for children who have to grow up without their father too.

Whereas telling someone they're childish (while totally missing the point they were making) isn't at ALL condescending!

@CandyLeBonBon what do you think would have been better - a non-biological father who was married to your mother, but was sterile, so they’d used donor sperm, and you’d had a kind and loving (legal but non biological) father from day 1. Or a violent bully who was your biological father, but was cruel and beat you and your mother regularly (but you at least knew where your blue eyes and love of vanilla icecream had come from)?

I have a biological father, but he was detached and disinterested, left when I was little, and has barely been in my life. The rejection broke my brother. Arguably it would have been better if he’d been absent from day 1, because then my brother and I wouldn’t have assumed he didn’t like us.

There are many ways to give kids a horrible childhood, and I feel that all the focus on MN seems to be on failing to provide a biological father. In reality that is only a tiny part of the story.

Can I ask a random question, just for my own interest?

Do you think your decision to have a child in the knowledge it would never have a father would have still been a choice you would make if you’d had a really positive and loving relationship with your own father when you were young?

I only ask as it is my experience that people don’t see the benefits/need for a maternal/paternal/sibling relationship when it’s not something they have had for themselves? I think most of us come to our own conclusions about what matters in life and make our decisions in life by reflecting on our own experiences and using them to guide us?

For example, my husband has got a brother but they have never had a close relationship and they can’t stand each other. They play absolutely no part in each others lives. I on the other hand have a sister who I adore, we are so close, we did everything together growing up and our sibling relationship has always been very special and it played a significant role in how we grew up and how we became who we are etc.

When me and my DH had discussions about having a second child he was adamant he didn’t want one and he was happy with just having one child. He said his brother made his childhood miserable and there was absolutely no benefit to our child having a sibling. Whereas I on the other hand, based on my own experiences couldn’t imagine raising an only child, the thought of denying our current son all the amazing aspects that can come with having a sibling (based on my own childhood) was incomprehensible to me.

So I was just wondering if you think your decision to use a sperm donor and for your child not to have a father was easier to make because of the fact you hadn’t had the experience of a father being an important and special part of growing up?

BTW - I’m genuinely not being goady and I apologise if I have worded any of this badly and caused any upset.

Independent mum by choice here - (hoping it’s ok to respond as well but it’s helpful to have a range of experiences imo. My children are donor conceived - own eggs, donor sperm, currently being kicked in my own uterus by the second)

I grew up in the stereotypical mum/dad/two children family. Parents’ marriage was happy and my father was incredibly involved and probably the sort of man posters here envision when they talk about ‘depriving a child of a father’

but I knew from a young age I would be better as an independent mum- I distinctly remember conversations with my parents about this as a child/teenage - and them being a bit mystified since it wasn’t something I’d seen modelled or had any deep seated ‘daddy trauma’

my obligation to my children is to be the best possible mum I can be - and thats an independent one. (I’ve written essays on the subject on here before so I won’t repeat myself or get into a debate - I’m sure there’s a way to search for my old posts if you were sufficiently interested- but suffix it to say my child is an incredibly happy little being and is proud of her identity as a DC child - my other one is still squiggling about in utero but hopefully will be the same )

@MumblesParty it's an impossible question. I can only tell you that my lack of father has an effect. The fact that my mother went on to marry a further 4 times to often unsuitable men has added to my woes, as you can imagine, but it's still separate from the original point that not knowing my father has had a significant effect on me.

You sound like you're doing a great job and I hope your kids continue to feel as positive as they do about things. That's all any of us want, really, isn't it?

So your 4 yr old knows about the intricacies of infertility, IVF and the use of donor gametes ..Some how I don’t think so !!! Maybe your a parent that’s just uninformed about these matters …Plus how can you possibly bear reference to me being a parent when you know nothing about my personal circumstances !!!

Oh my dear what sort of key board warrior and despicable sort of person says that to someone !!! You should be incredibly ashamed of yourself !!!! Given your very vague and flippant comment …

Checked on Amazon, facebook market place, Etsy, no embryos for sale there at the moment.

Thought E bay might be a runner, but nope, no joy there either.

Looked for embryo ovens too. So even if i got an embryo would have a job cooking it.

I mean WTF, what I want is what I should have, money is no object for me.

Oh what wait, I think I spot a business opportunity, I can set up an international exchange for baby ingredients, and accessories to cook it.

I can have an influencers website, how to make the best ever baby.

Gonna call it “A brave new world”

So your saying anyone who uses IVF is buying a baby That’s a touch narrow minded !!!

Sorry but you sound absolutely moronic. Is that supposed to be funny ?

How my goodness How far off topic are you … Some people are clearly just looking for an argument or heated debate

It came up in Active. I don't think people are searching in Surrogacy

This has been addressed several times already if you read the thread. Thanks.

@KazBuck your puerile responses really showcase your inability to understand the incredibly difficult and nuance journey that a child of surrogacy will have to navigate. Your posts are all about you. Your wants, your needs, and how what you want most in the world.

I'm sure some children born of surrogacy thrive beautifully. Many won't and the fact you refuse to even acknowledge that as a possibility strikes me as very concerning.

Children are not puppies, or accessories. They don't stay as babies for long and they are born with their own inherent traits, personalities and inbuilt characteristics that you will have to navigate.

With no prior knowledge of your child's genetic or familial history, there's the very real possibility you will be completely unaware of signifiers for things like autism, ADHD, and other neurodivergent issues where it's very easy to dismiss ND flags as poor behaviour - god knows it's hard enough to do when you have a full family history. I speak from experience.

Procuring a child from surrogacy, there is understandably the (possibly unconscious) idea that you have acquired the 'perfect baby', but really you just don't seem to be thinking about the child in this situation as a human that will grow into a fully fledged, hopefully functional human being.

Babies become children, who become adults. I just think you're so focused on the baby here, you haven't thought about the human you are potentially creating.

@CandyLeBonBon you can’t possibly tell what someone is thinking or what kind of parent they will be based on a few mumsnet responses. You are being incredibly judgemental . And nasty frankly. Sorry about your past experience but it doesn’t mean it will be the same for everyone.

To some extent i think that one should not judge an individual ergo the OP.

however this thread does somewhat underline the ethical problems of fertility treatments and where the line should be drawn.

In this scenario we are talking about three mothers, the genetical, the gestational and the adopter.

Not something i would want inflicted on a child to satisfy the hormonal drivers of a woman with fertility issues.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

”children aren’t puppies” how insulting. As if the op doesn’t know this. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but personal attacks are nasty .

i don’t know anything about embryo donation or surrogacy - but with sperm donor you do get a full medical history in far more detail than anything I’ve ever had with a partner - including screening for genetic mutations. I don’t think if I’d gone about it the ‘ typical’ way either I or my partner would have undergone genetic testing. As it was, I was given a whole folder of information and met with a genetic counsellor prior to proceeding . I would hazard a guess my children know a lot more about their medical history than the average person.