what is it that makes European women so groomed?

[frazzledoldhag]

Message withdrawn

they have a lot of rules they follow i think. like never wearing trainers unless working out. always bringing clothes to the tailor to have them adjusted (we would just say, ah, it nearly fits, not spending a tenner).

but i think we experiment more and aren't so totally slavish to labels.

i know a french woman and she picks up her children from the same school mine are at wearing jaunty little felt hats and really (imo) ageing scarves and generally seems determined to look 60 at 40. so they don't all get it right.

Message withdrawn

where's Anna? she can tell us why we are so hopeless and the french are so perfect.

I come from southern Europe, and my mum used to endlessly repeat to me "suck in your stomach and bring your chest out" when I was growing up. My grandmother never left the house without matching bag and high heel shoes, and eye shadow. She died at 87 still wearing her high heels. No, she didn't fall down the stairs, in case you are wondering
So, as Maggie says, we grew up with a whole set of rules, which were sometimes quite ridiculous. These days, I actually think that British girls can often look more groomed than European ones, at least in the corporate environment. Your hair and make up is always nicely done, where as in my country all the old "rules" have basically been forgotten.

Message withdrawn

i think European women are just better looking than us. Walk down a normal high street here and the really good looking and stylish women with something a bit special are few and far between

They all seem to own hair brushes.

we had rules about shoes and handbags (always matching), shoulders never on display (especially in church), skirts always below the knee (unless you wanted lots of attention). I think the funniest thing was bikinis - illegal until about 1965 when the Swedish girls started coming down south to enjoy the sun and ignore every possible rule. We also were taught how to get out of a car without opening your legs and how to stand up without making any noise with your chair (no carpets down south). Rules about how to sit with your back straight and never to slouch. Ladies don't whistle, don't climb trees, don't laugh loud...

I think it is a myth.

Sure, if you go to the big cities they look good, but most of the rural/suburban areas they look as shit as us.

I have a few Italian and French pals and they are as un-glam as I am.

The ones in the city who look fab spend a FORTUNE on grooming and clothing. More than on rent/mortgage. Throw that much money and effort at anyone and they will look fabulous.

I dont think it is so much the case today.
Ever been to rural France>?

True about throwing money at it. Many of my friends back home lived with their parents until they were mid 30s. We never pay rent to our parents, so once they started working, they had plenty of funds to look after themselves.

And they're not afraid to use them . I think posture has a lot to do with it, and not wearing clothes that are faddy, not dressing in a style more suitable for women ten years younger than they are, not overdoing the accessories, walking gracefully in high heels. Then there's attitude, the look in the eyes.

I have a French chum and she spends an inordinate amount of time getting ready every morning ... well it seems inordinate to me! Say an hour and a half to get out of the house. No DCs. She would not consider wearing leisurewear ever, she always wears "proper" shoes, she always wears nail varnish (and thinks it odd that my Brit friends and I don't). She looks fantastic! She doesn't really "do " fashion and likes classic clothes ... know what you mean about "ageing" styles Maggie but imo the classic items also help women look well-groomed. And kind of "serious" iyswim, not frivolous like, er, some of us

I tinhk it is mostly a myth, we only notice the well groomed ones.

Of the five Italian mums at DS's school only one of them could be described as well groomed, and she is just beautiful so looks fab in anything anyway (and always wears trainers)

I think unfortunately a lot of Brits are just rather ugly, and the shit weather doesn't help, you can always look more well groomed in sunny warm weather, but in shit winter weather like this we all look like drowned rats no matter how hard we try

oh god here we go

They are afraid to go out au naturel.

Meant the hairbrushes -- hair is ignored at your peril.

Pmsl at theelephant.

Knew you'd LOVE this thread.

Thing is, I'm as "European" as they come yet seem to have blended in here quite nicely, thank you very much!
Shows what one can achieve!

ColdBunny you must be Spanish....;)

I very truly think it is all about the hair, the hair is always so groomed. It 'finishes' one in a way clothes can't really imo.

I was wondering this today, as I can always spot the British Erasmus students a mile off.

Part of it is use of colour, I think. French women wear lots more black, which hides a lot of sins and slims you down. But they have often got the colouring to get away with it, whereas a paler/pinker-skinned Brit looks washed out in black. So the British wear lots more bright colours, which sometimes work and sometimes don't.

And part of it is also, as has been said, not slavishly following fashion if it doesn't suit you or your age group.

There is also more "casual" clothing in the UK, lots more trainers, sweatshirts and fleeces. Nowt wrong with them per se, but you don't look groomed.

And TBH, though things are changing fast, the French are still on the whole slimmer than the British, so their clothes hang better and don't cling in the wrong places/reveal bulges, etc.

Had Maltese, Italian and Greek friends and here's what I noticed:

• hair never tied back. Was always at least shoulder length, freshly washed and styled.

• always wore make up. Some more than others, but mascara, eyeliner and lipstick/gloss at a minimum.

• clothes always fitted v well. W the older ladies, more sedate style and no denim - timeless style rather than fashionable. Older ladies wore natural fibres.

• more formal dressing ie no leisure wear worn apart from the gym. This includes trainers, except for guys - white sneakers were the uniform! Denim worn by younger folk and was designer.

• v figure/diet conscious. Ladies w 3 children had better body than I had pre-DD.

So, basically spent much time and money! The younger ladies were more relaxed about it than the older ladies, but that could be because they were born in Australia and our slack chilled approach had rubbed off! HTH

note: am not advocating, just observing.

I'm Italian, I lived in the UK for quite a long time. I like fashion, but I'm not "groomed" at all, and the years I lived in the UK I was at my least groomed ever. I blame the weather. Too wet and windy.

By the way, I think it's a question of fabrics. There is, in the UK, an overkill of manmade fabrics, fleeces, ill fitting trousers and jackets, polyester cardis that are not as massively present on the continent.

I've been thinking about this a bit more.

Italian women feel less guilty about spending money on themselves... now we need a good sociologist to explain us WHY

Btw, in London there are many well groomed/hip/trendy women.

And when I used to work in fashion (in another life) the best paid stylists were... English!