what is it that makes European women so groomed?

[frazzledoldhag]

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Where do they all get this 'more money' from?

Round here the majority look fab (I am not in the majority) but again they're all pretty wealthy

Olivia, yes, you guessed correctly. And when I go back home, I do feel the pressure to look more groomed. And don't start me on the children. Spanish children often look like they are dressed to go to a wedding rather than to the park. Lovely clothes, but not very practical.

(searches for Bonsoirs post, wonders why she wasn't the 2nd post, adds to watch list)

They work

I think that up until 15 yrs ago, families from the wealthiest parts of Italy had more disposable income than their English counterparts, again, we'd need a sociologist or an economist to explain us why (well, the cost of living was lower in Italy until 15 yrs ago, there were more savings, no money spent on private schooling and so on).

Nowadays families earning power has decreased dramatically here in Italy, so there is not as much disposable income. And there is a dramatic economic recession.

Coldbunny, I have to say that I thank the 8 yrs I spent in the UK as nowadays I care so much less about looking fashionable or "perfect" and I like to be free to dress how I like.

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I agree with OMDB and offers.

Sorry, but that's my general observation.

I think that the answer is pretty straightforward...women look groomed when they have spent some time grooming. If there's a difference it's in time and money spent.

Not that I think there IS much difference - London is full of well groomed women. But I think I do notice some cultural differences between Britain and the US in this way, at least, my American (female) students always put a lot of effort into their hair and makeup and clothes whereas the majority of my British ones don't. Course they're young so they look utterly gorgeous anyway and far better imo than the dolled up ones, but I guess when they are older, the same habits will produce the scruffy vs groomed thing you're talking about.

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Have spotted anna around, will try to lure her here...

You could generally spot the British civil servants in EU meetings in Brussels. It was either 'Executive Woman at Next' polyester suits and blouses or, worse, the older Foreign Office types in calf length flared skirts and Laura Ashley tops. But before I sound like Euro-bitch of the year, some of the continental women in never changing Chanel-type just above knee suits, 20 years out of date Herpes scarves and rather too much gold jewellery could also be a tad, well, boring.

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I've learnt to always have my nails shaped and polished, wear heels, love dry shampoo (makes my hair bounce), accessorise and never leave the house without make-up. Simple things which make even jeans and a vest top look good.

Also to avoid cheapy, cheapy clothes. A few well made pieces are worth a whole wardrobe full of tat.

Took me a while to get into the swing of it though.

DH who is French says the colours, the very unfortunate dresses in very in yer face colours (like bright yellow) with jeggings, wearing a cardigan... Apparently wearing large blocks of colour screams British. Flower patterns which aren't tropical flower prints so tiny flowers or rosebuds also scream Brit. Bright colours, pastel colours, colours in general. Definitely no blue, green, any cool colours. 'Proper' looking dresses (a line, block colour not black) and dresses which belong at garden parties.

He just went through my wardrobe to illustrate this point.

That's true, bellissima. And as someone else said, many Parisian 40-somethings dress in a way that was fashionable 20 years ago: smart jeans, blue blazers and Hermes scarves. They look older than their ages. And boring.

I was at concert at my daughter's school last night. The girls' hair looked very groomed, Many of the mothers did not. Perhaps there's a generational change happening.

I love how the Brits use colour and their boldness. As I said, the Brits are always so ahead in fashion, trust me!

It's the Executive woman (or man) at next that is rather depressing, I agree.

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My SILs have certain rules -
always make an effort when leaving the house. If going anywhere further than the corner shop then the outfit is planned to the last detail. They live together so share handbags/shoes etc. It costs pennies to have your hair blowdried so they do that twice a week after washing. They don't work f/t and get up early so they seem to have lots of time for makeup etc. They think I am a complete scruff They also have indoor clothes that they change into so keeping their nice outdoor clothes nice. They put all their clothes away straight away rather than drop them in a pile on the floor. I don't know - they just care more than I do.

The Italian mums at dd's school will have one designer outfit, that they will wear all the time.

A woman I know in a designer fur refuses to fork out 5 euro for the class teacher's Christmas present (ie it's a priorities thing)

Said mums also only wash hair once a week (Friday, when hairdresser is open a la Asda at Christmas 24/h ) so they ming by Thursday, but save a fortune on shampoo.

i think it's the tailoring thing, tbh. my italian friends had a seamstress as teenagers, it's just a given that off the peg doesn't fit. i get stuff altered too, i must say, and it makes a world of difference. also, within reason, buy cheap buy twice.

also, italians do this marvellous thing where they properly put away their a/w wardrobe and move into s/s, it's hilarious. dry cleaners are busting on the weekend where the changeover happens, i can't remember what it's called, can anyone help?

Do you mean cambio di stagione Aitch?

A few basic rules:

clothes fit properly ie. no muffin tops
buy clothes that suit you and not necessarily in fashion
no trainers or tracksuits unless working out
no fleeces - always a tailored coat.

It;s not necessarily a good thing though- it can get boring! I love seeing the fashion and colour whenever I go to the UK.

Colour is good, fleece is bad, unless you are going skiing or walking in the countryside/cycling etc.

yyy that's it. all the adverts at that time of year crack me up.

it can get a bit boring, lots of fur and duvet coats in the winter, but i do think the italians scrub up better as a matter of course.