what is it that makes European women so groomed?

[frazzledoldhag]

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Franca - loads of those in my area of Rome! But also waaaaay too many of the perfectly groomed 30 somethings dropping little Lorenzo off at ds's school while I shuffle past trying to blend into the background in my jeans and uggs and no make up cos I was mumsnetting until the last minute before had to get ds out of the door . I will never ever be able to manage the summer groomed look here. At least I can cover up many sins with a smart winter coat at this time of the year. In the summer when the heat makes me want to collapse if 1 wisp of hair escapes from scraped back hair, all the Roman women are still sauntering around with thick cascading hair down their backs. Think it must just be genetic

Mme Lindt, I must disagree, German women are very chic!

I have got far better dressed since coming to germany, because I actually have some money to spend on clothes now.

Thats a bit like 1664, 16 from behind - 64 from the front!

Maybe the cigarette has something to do with the 64 part? I think this is mutton dressed as lamb too.

frazzledoldhag - I have read this thread and you have had masses of great advice.

IMO, if you feel insecure about your professional look, you need to get back to the very basics and take a long, hard look at everything about you, and try to improve it. IME, French (and other continental European women) expend a lot more of their personal resources (money, time and creative energy) on their appearance than British women do, and that's where the difference lies.

So start with the basics - your body, your hair. Get them right ie the very best you can achieve with them. Then take a really long hard look at your wardrobe for the current season, and see if you have 10 good work outfits, for a range of temperatures/precipitations. Make sure every outfit is completely thought out, down to the smallest accessory. Ensure it is in a perfect state of repair and clean. Sort out a system to ensure that cleaning/washing/repairs just happen in the course of events.

Wow bonsoir great advice. Look forward to hearing more. I'm getting my colours done next month as a step towards achieving my own personal best look.

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i always think its funny how Bonsoir goes on about clothes needing repairing
are oyu all very clumsy or somehting

Nighby
Do you? I am thinking of the women who shop in K&L Ruppert. There are a lot of women who wear jeans and tshirts with strange logos on them. Or lots of frilly/fancy cardigans. One of my friends used to love a company that sold stuff like that, can't for the life of my remember the name, Clique or Cliche or something.

maybe its a regional thing?
Munich is VERY smart.

Hahaha Franca, love it

Banana don't forget to put your fur coat on if it gets down to 18oC

I think the whole clothes-need-repairing thing, as mentioned by Bonsoir and someone else pages back, (someone knew someone with their own tailor) is because, certainly, here, women who are a bit, erm, academically challenged, take in sewing and call themselves seamstresses. Dp's mother, illiterate old witch that she is, is one of them.

My Mum, (not illiterate btw ) also takes dd's stuff up, lets it down, etc, but would never class herself a seamstress.

Feck, Bonsoir, 10 outfits for work! I don't have 10 outfits period. I have jumpers, and trousers, and 2 suits.

I took extra special care with the school drop off this morning (south Italy)

Leopard skin lycra- tick
Jogging bottoms- purple- tick
Fur- all the teachers except the German lady who had a grey puffa jacket (and blue eyeliner, I do feel I have to mention)
Burberry check- tick (and boak)

Another thing- the ones with nice classic wool winter coats, not a speck on them. Do they brush them every morning? I only have to look at dd's coat and it looks like the cat (which we don't have) has been having it's way with it.

Here in Paris there are little shops all over the place where you can get your clothes taken up/down/in/out, suits made etc. But they are usually manned! In fact, I don't know any female "tailors" at all.

I keep one of those sticky tape clothes brushes in our hall coat cupboard and regularly grab DP/DD as they are leaving and roll it all over them to get the fluff off!

I was thinking about inspiration for professional looks - much better to look at catalogues than at magazines, IMO, because it is a lot easier to put together a professional ensemble from one brand rather than cobbling together styling it from multiple brands.

A real killer for not looking pulled together is trying to put clothes from several seasons together in one outfit. British women, who don't do that Italian (and generally Southern European) thing of have separate wardrobes per season, are particularly guilty of this...

Repairing clothes is also about not going out with a missing button, or a bobbly jumper. It's all down to making more effort girls.

so repairing is not repairing?

I like 1664 too !
Frazzled: "Perhaps sometimes deep in our British Protestant hearts we feel a bit...embarrassed about taking our appearance too seriously". Yes, that's my impression too, as I said earlier on I think Italian women feel less guilty to spend money (time, energy etc) on themselves. (Mind you, I'm also largely generalizing)

Btw, I have a small electric machine that "hoovers" (not sure how to describe how it does it exactly ) fluff from jumpers

The other day my mother was stunned that I sent ds to school with his apron missing a button... But as I said, I'm a bit scruffy.

Yes, deffo repairing.

I agree lots of smart people in Munich, but again, it is a very wealthy area, isn't it?

frazzledolddog. re helsinki, I have lived there and i don´t think you have much to worry about. There is a huge variety in levels of grooming. I do have some more insights though these will have to wait cos my DDs are about to murder each other...will be back.

Nighby
Yes, Munich is very smart and they have one of the highest rates of unmarried people in Germany, it is singles city. Perhaps the chic Münchner ladies are more careful of their appearance than the old married wives of the suburbs who lounge around in their leggings.

I remembered the brand that I hate - Biba.

Bavaria ( urban) very smart
schicki micki etc

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ooh, late to the party -

i am currently very into nordic fashion - the danes

noa noa
bohemia
Lysgaard
Pilgrim (love their jewellery)

and Odd Molly (Swedish) which is more expensive but very perv-worthy.

I am personally unconviced about european fashion..Germany ladies didn't look to be any tidier than the UK, nor Dutch (though older Dutch ladies seem exclusively to have red or blond hair, never grey..)

France/Italy the straight dark hair that seems so common is going to look tidier than the mid brown frizz that seems usual to the UK. The styles that seem to come from farnce and italy really demand careful immaculate styling - no bo-ho chic, no hippy style, just clean classic white/red/blue/blacks, neatly finished. this style looks rubbish on me as it just highlights my naturally messy look - if you have tameable hair and don't leave home without make up it becomes wearable.

i take the point that possibly the not-a-hair-out-of-place appearance is possibly due to regular hairdressing attendance.

I guess the Dutch cycle everywhere so it 's hard to look stylish without a hair out of place .

100% agree that you need to see the hairdresser more than once every 3 months if you want to look groomed. Plus one thing I noticed when still commuting into London each day is that few women seem to polish their shoes or have them re-soled regularly! So many women in expensive business suits with scruffy shoes...kills the whole look.

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'the shit weather doesn't help, you can always look more well groomed in sunny warm weather, but in shit winter weather like this we all look like drowned rats no matter how hard we try' How very true. I feel and look much better in warm weather unencumbered by brolly, mac and ratty hair

Also some British women seem to have no qualms about positively drawing attention to their absolute worst bits. The main offender being tshits and tops that are TOO SHORT. And unflattering leggings. '

This! Especially in Scotland.

Gawd, it's dire. My mother can hardly stand it here. She'll now only visit in summer.

And putting on makeup on the train/in public.

Yuk.

At least go into the toilet to apply it!