what is it that makes European women so groomed?

[frazzledoldhag]

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Its because they iron

Another generalisation about Italian women (and agree with all Romanarama's) is that often if they are not going out, they simply do not get dressed, so you call round to see someone and find them at 3pm in their jammies, because they are protecting their beautifully expensive (even if casual) gear for public viewing.

The times I have changed lesson venue and made people come to me just to make them get fecking dressed. Most disconcerting to be teaching a 17 yr old great galumphing lad in his chuffa train pyjamas.

Well where I used to live in rural Italy jeans and trackies were common on the school-run. Now I am in Rome and people here are noticebly more groomed.

it's because they iron
My mother irons everything, even socks and undies...

Business smart on the continent is not necessarily a suit, which I found intersting. Plus nice detailing on plain clothes goes a long way.

Ironing is also key- anything looks smarter when well pressed.

Another point DH just made is anything you wear every day like glasses or a watch should preferably be designer. Apparently Brits neglect the things which are an integral part of their appearance because they forget about them.

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Like: nice pair of trousers + nice shirt or nice cashemire jumper or both.

Or skirt + the above. Think posh/trendy librarian... it's a popular look here in Milan.

I think the grooming applies to teenagers as well - I live near a couple of places that are magnets for foreign schoolkids. They don't seem quite so intent on displaying so much tattooed and pierced flesh (and I speak as the mum of two teens so I do realise that's a generalisation!).

I used to teach EFL at home and the French girls in particular used to come downstairs in full slap and kitten heels. I remember one telling me that at 16 her mother had only just stopped choosing her clothes. She apparently also insisted on matching undies!

With the women, I'm convinced it's simply sticking to classics rather than trying to look younger.

I spent my late teens in Brussels and felt very scruffy and drab compared to other girls at college. Went back recently and still do!

I agree about the Liberty print. I wear lots of Liberty print and so does DD (8), but I have to buy it from French clothing companies, because it is so hard to buy in England even though it is English!

There are many clothing styles that are traditionally English, Scottish or British. I see them being sold in foreign countries as British style, but you can no longer buy them in Britain for a reasonable price.

I totally agree with the sportswear thing- only for sport.

I think Brits can do style really really well- there's a freshness and vibrancy to a lot of clothes here, and I love that eccentric vibe. But I think it is really aimed at the young. So the cool, trendy stuff is best on teens and 20s- beyond that the high street interpretations just go so meh. (Next, Boden et al)

Grooming, on the other hand- my personal bugbear of the minute is Posh Girl Hair. Privately educated girls/uni students mooching about in Jack Wills pjs/trackies with the most insanely messy, tangled bed hair imaginable. All pinned up in bouffanty candy floss mounds of tangles. Even when dolled up for a night out this weird aversion to brushing remains...

And where is Bonsoir?!

I am in a hurry to dash to DD's school to buy cakes they are selling, so could not read all posts and not sure if my idea appeared at all or not.... but where I came from, there is an unwritten rule of having matching bag and shoes, all leather of course. In the UK this does not apply i noticed. Hand bags are great accessories and must be colour coordinated with the rest of your outfit but especially with your footwear.
Also whe I arrived in the London in my twenties (it was almost 2 decades ago), I had noticed how naturel British women were ie no manicure, no make up, hair natural. On the underground, I used to see women, apparently professional, commuting to/from work and appeared quite naturel with no polish in any shape or form. Where I came from, even if you wanted to keep a low profile appearance-wise, you would still put light pink nail warnish, colour coordinated accessories as mentioned above and mainly not afraid of using lively clolurs.
Clothes also were rather plain and formal looking here whereas in my home country, lots more different colours in the same dress, more acessories ie belts, buckles, different colured scarves (not in the manner of old aged women's scarf but more in the sense of scarf around your hourglass waist asw an unusual accessory way...
Now I am one of those plain looking women, when I go to my home-country, I look un-made, unpolished and it is so comfortable existence as far as I am concerned.. especially with a young demanding DD in my fourties with a demanding job too. So I don't mind the new me.

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Here in Northern Italy (Milan) the rule of matching shoes and bags hasn't been respected for ages.

This whole thread is worrying me! I have to work in Paris this Summer, and I have no idea what to wear. I am far better at Winter clothes than Summer ones, and I have no idea what to wear in Paris.

I'm here I'm here! But fantastically busy getting ready for a hectic weekend - I have just skim read the thread and I'm sure I don't have much to add but will think about it. Must zoom off to the market now...

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To be honest, I don't think it's possible to generalize on the attractiveness of a population.
I find it a bit scary.

It depends frazzled, it's bare legs here in Italy, but in Milan we can reach 40 degrees in the summer.... no way anyone would wear stockings... And lots of people will have a tan here, as Italians tend to sunbath at the first opportunity.

you know what shocked me 20 years ago, when I first moved to London? The girls that would apply make up in the bus or tube. I still hate it. I was talking to a Spanish colleague (a male) recently and he agreed. If you want to look groomed, do it before you leave the house. Applying make up in public is an absolute No for me, except for a very discreet application of lipstick.

'the shit weather doesn't help, you can always look more well groomed in sunny warm weather, but in shit winter weather like this we all look like drowned rats no matter how hard we try' How very true. I feel and look much better in warm weather unencumbered by brolly, mac and ratty hair

Also some British women seem to have no qualms about positively drawing attention to their absolute worst bits. The main offender being tshits and tops that are TOO SHORT. And unflattering leggings.

I don't want to look groomed for the people on the train. I just want to look groomed by the time I get to work. I would have to get up at 5.30 am if I didn't do my makeup on the train, so there is no way that is going to change!

I think putting your make up on on the train is like wiping your bum in public.

Franca- I iron everything.

Bucharest... you are one of us now....

Totally agree with MrsMotMot on the 'posh girl hair'. Couldn't possibly afford it for mine own dear horrors but my god-daughter at v well know girls boarding school in spa town and she and her friends all sport the same dragged through a hedge backwards (but artfully) mane. Was wondering the other week whether its a 'far too posh for straighteners' thing (another vile look - the British over-bleached over straightened with optional curtain over face hair).

Again, before I sneer at all things British, even very expensive Belgian and French hairdressers can produce a wildly unrealistic 'balayage' with the tail end of a 1950s comb, where only the top layer is highlighted and you get a lovely Debbie Harry dark effect round the back. (And since French women do tie their hair back - they have two styles, the pony tail or the bob - you get some pretty zebra like looks).

Oh I like posh girl hair .
I have very common hair, btw.