what is it that makes European women so groomed?

[frazzledoldhag]

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I find that here in Northern Italy fur is slowly disappearing, only women past the age of 60 wear it. Perhaps in southern italy fur is still seen as a "status" thing? Boh!

They've shipped it all down here!

Tasteful colour in moderation is good. Too much colour is scary.

I think the quality of their clothes are so much better - nothing seems to look wrinkled and always fits perfectly. Italian girls still manage to look wonderful in jeans and a polo shirt whereas I just couldn't pull it off. In general I think they are much thinner and of course a tan makes a difference.

I lived in Naples for quite a while where 80% of the women there looked awful, lots of bright clingy ill-fitting lycra

Having said that, have also spent much time elsewhere in France, Spain and Northern Italy and it's true everyone looks better than in the UK

I think they're just.. prettier people.. and those that look 'groomed' tend to be more classic in what they wear, and even if they're wearing the latest fashions they pick the ones that suit them. Also, they have some really lovely underwear shops on the high street, and I think if you have gorgeous undies every day you are going to instinctively make a bit more of an effort, feel better about yourself and project a more confident image

So, it's all down to the undies

Although I don't agree that everyone is "chic" and slim, (certainly not in darkest Normandy!) I'd agree with the "scruffy/casual" comment.

I am at the pjs to school threads, but DH (French) is worse.

If he's doing DIY he will actually change into a threepiece suit to go to the baker's ... he thinks it's disrespectful not to.

I also read something similar in a book about an Aussie woman who moved to Paris, her partner was shocked at her casualness.

I agree not everyone is chic - in the last week in Belgium I have seen a pajama school mum (although not chic she looked very sexy in a just fallen out of bed way), and an older man in his pjs.

omg are pjamas hitting the continent's streets???

I'd just read about it on mumsnet, then saw two in one week!

I think it is mainly down to posture, I can always spot the British queue at the airport because of all the slouching. This contributes to the badly fitting clothes and muffin tops. I probably do it too but I definitely notice the absence of it when we go to Europe (from what I've seen it is even worse in the US, so if they are being considered more groomed then I'm completely wrong).

Maybe it is just bugbear of mine, I had to re-learn walking in my early twenties and that might mean I over-notice it (if that makes sense, like I always noticed someone's shoes when I was working in a shoe shop). I don't mean any offence and I'm sure there are plenty of people in the UK who do stand and walk properly.

I'm watching this thread, as I often fear I get spotted for not being continental in my dress! I am not sure how I am going to pull it off though this year as I will have a lot of baby weight to shift...

I am required to dress smartly for meetings that often take place partly inside and outside so require the ability to cope with changing weather conditions yet be business-smart.

I think French people are more petite on the whole though. I am tall and big-boned and have very few friends who are as tall as me. When I compare my extended family to (French) Dh's extended family, mine are much taller in general.

It's nice to see British fashion culture still has the power to sway other nations. Once we had Jermyn Street and Savile Row, now it's PJs.

Yes, Antipodeans (I'm including South Africa in this) are much more casual. My brother didn't own a suit for work until he moved to the UK, and I remember everyone being flabergasted (sorry for sp.) that he had to wear one to work, every day.

I think it also varies between cities, towns and rural areas. In London, you do see a LOT of fashionable and very stylish, chic individuals. But that's because it's London; it's one of the fashion capitals of the world. Go to deepest Hampshire, and it's a completely different story.

I remember going on a work trip to Sheffield a couple of years ago. I had a pair of HUGE sunglasses. In London, very occassionally I might get a comment, but not much. In Sheffield there were a lot of mystified looks and raised eyebrows.

Frakkin - my continental DH also thinks most prints are very British. It's Johnnies 'hotchpotch' stuff that he shudders at most. He also tends to hate non-waisted stuff. I rebel sometimes though - you can look 'groomed but boring' in a sea of navy, white and beige. And many 'chic' little continental girls dresses simply look like British school uniform.

Tatty handbags are another British give away (not that mine isn't!).

Belgo - do you live in Anderlecht? I never saw that in Belgium. (Slight penchant on older women and men for 80s style long leather jackets with mutton leg sleeves though. Oh and wigs - old ladies in Belgium wear wigs - and no it can't always be for medical reasons there are too many)

Jamaisjedors Interesting what you say about respect.
I find people judge way more on the way you look in France. I find I get a different welcome and service in shops according to how 'groomed' I am.
On scruffy days, I have been on the receiving end of haughty 'there's no way you can afford anything in here' looks in clothes and furniture shops. I don't remember feeling judged like this in the UK.

Leuven. I will have to look out for the wigs, can't say i've noticed them.

Lol lol lol at Johnnies Hotchpotch ...

Liberty prints however are gorgeous. And here in Italy little girls wear Liberty prints shirts.

Brilliant! Wait till I tell DH about PJs in Leuven! He will tell me its lies and defamation though...

Maybe wigs are a Brussels/Francophone thing. Like the little dogs. You suddenly notice the real hair sticking out underneath when you're in the queue at the boulangerie.

Mmmm I think it is the same in posh shops in the UK otherside.

Johnnies Hotchpotch - makes DH retch!!

My British take on hotchpotch is that it's a laudable make-do-and-mend use of spare bits of fabric hanging round the warehouse.

DH won't have it though.

I'd rather be an eccentric Brit than dull old BCBG.

Grooming is for ponies and pedigree dogs.

I've travelled a fair bit, and there are chic and scruffy people everywhere. Although I will say that the selection of shoes is somewhat better on the Continent.

Eccentric and scruffy are different though.

Italy's the land I know best, and the big differences are (generalising wildly, but we're being pretty general here, right?):

1. Italian women consider that 'getting dressed' means 'putting on a well-though out outfit, with make up and coordinating shoes and handbag'. You rarely, possibly never, meet an Italian mum on the school run in jeans and a fleece.

1. Italian women go to the hairdryer for a blow dry once a week, and quite likely will take great care not to get their hair wet at all in between.

1. Past a certain age (not very old - 30s/40s) they wear a lot of jackets.

Basically though they look more groomed because they are more groomed. When I was first in Italy I was astonished that everyone looked as though they'd just come out of the hairdresser. Then I realised that they had in fact just come out of the hairdresser, so that would be why. If you spend more time grooming then you'll look like you did.

I think the men are also an issue. Italian men are infinitely better dressed than British men, and more concerned in general about grooming and appearance. They also encourage this in their wives and girlfriends. My dh (Italian) is quite happy to spend 8 hours shopping with me for the perfect skirt/trousers/dress/whatever for me, and thinks it's reasonable to spend ££££££ if it looks good.

I think quality of fabrics, colour, etc matter less than the silhouette. The French are obsessed with this, and with good reason.

Think about the shape you want to present to the world and arrange your wardrobe accordingly.

Avoid:
Long top layered over long skirt
Baggy top over baggy trousers
Short top and short skirt
etc

If the top half is fitted, go looser on the bottom half, and vice versa. I really think this is where a lot of people go wrong.

Also, sports wear should only ever be worn when actively playing sport, or on the way to and from the gym. Fleeces, tracksuit bottoms and trainers have no place in your wardrobe if you want to look pulled together.

Finally, read Vogue religiously (but shop on the high street)

Disclaimer: I often look like total crap, so I'm not preaching - I aim for this but do fail.

That's true about sportswear - you only see it at the school gate in Italy on parents who are on their way to or from the gym or about to go running.