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Boys in dresses. Yes or no?

557 replies

spidermama · 30/06/2005 11:34

My DS (3.5) loves dresses and butterfly tops and glittery sparkley fairy type stuff. I have no objection. I even bought him a couple of dresses of his own to stop him raiding long-sufferine DD's wardrobe. My only slight worry is teasing from other kids. He wants to wear a dress to pre-school today. What do you think?

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mandyc66 · 03/07/2005 21:49

anyway if Bekham can wear a skirt why cant our littl ds's!!!!

Tortington · 03/07/2005 22:50

mine can't and never could becuse they would be bullied for the remainder of their school days.

Tortington · 03/07/2005 22:52

sorry fogot to put that into context. eddie izzard could walk onto the roughest councilestate and everyone would be "yay eddie, hows it hangin mate"

however dress like eddie izzard but dont have the fame - walk in the same area. your askin for trouble.

i could never put my child in a position to be a catalyst for sociotal change

spidermama · 03/07/2005 23:08

I think we should all do what we believe is right. Stand up to predjudice, whatever it's nature, otherwise we become the perpetrators.

I have no problems with boys or men in dresses. I will not walk the path of those who do.

I refuse to deny my son the freedom to express himself because of the perceived predjudice of others.

End of. (As Saskia might say).

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spidermama · 03/07/2005 23:39

My DH remembers taking a teddy called, get this, 'Farmer Lumpy' to school when he was nearly 6! He was the oldest and biggest boy in the class. Naturally he was teased but assumed, at the time, that they were jealous of F.Lumpy (ie perhaps their teddies were smaller/didn't have a hat etc).

FL continued to accompany him to until the friendship (between boy and teddy) had run its course. THIS despite protective attempts by his mum to prevent him bringing FL in.

DH, for the record, is a very well adjusted and decent grown up. I guess some people are more affected by teasing and predjudice than others.

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wheresmyfroggy · 03/07/2005 23:40

NO!

spidermama · 03/07/2005 23:41

I don't get you.

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wheresmyfroggy · 03/07/2005 23:42

Sorry was just responding to the thread title

spidermama · 03/07/2005 23:43

I see. Apologies. It's been a long thread. Nite nite.

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wheresmyfroggy · 03/07/2005 23:46

No need to apologise nighty night

MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 00:44

Personally I wouldnt put ds (5) into a dress. I know society is predjudical as are all societies and just because it isnt socially acceptable i personally wouldnt feel comfortable in using my son to make this kind of statement (or anyone elses son). If men want to wear dresses - so be it and let the men pave the way not the children who arent able to understand sociology.

My son loved pink until he was gentlely teased by his friend who's fav colour was blue. Ds now loves blue. He takes a teddy to bed everynight and it is lovely. He helps me bake, garden (he loves plants and flowers), wash up, hoover etc and then he also says he wants to be a ninja. I let him pretty much do what he feels comfortable doing within safe limits.

spidermama · 04/07/2005 10:38

Hello, Awen. I'm not 'using my son to make a statement' but rather allowing him the freedom to do what makes him happy and pursue his own interests.

In the meantime, in order to give him the tools to make his own decisions, I continue to explain to him that others may tease if he wears dresses.

I can't believe so many of you seem to place fear of scorn above personal freedom. Will you be happy looking back on your lives thinking 'Well, at least I was never teased'?

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MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 11:05

Spidermama:

As 3.5 boys like pretty stuff and what there mums like. My son loved pink, wanted to marry me when he was a big boy and wanted to wear my make up. He used to wear nail polish on his toes sometimes.

Your initall post said that you were slightly worried about teasing from other kids and the title of this thread is boys in dresses yes or no? My response is no and i think to do so is setting him up to be teased.

Society generally follows trends and rules and a collective point of view. Of course there is room for indivualism but i personally feel that at 3.5 years old you do not have the emotional strength and maturity to start a trend/change in attitude.

You stated 'I refuse to deny my son the freedom to express himself because of the perceived predjudice of others.' This is admirable in essense but would he thank you in the long run if you did send him to pre-school in a dress?

You asked for a discussion and I responded.. to say 'End of. (As Saskia might say)' appears that you were not actually wanting a discussion, in which case perhaps you shouldnt have posted.

spidermama · 04/07/2005 11:13

Awen please don't get personal. I said 'end of' for a joke and put 'as saskia would say' to ensure people knew it was a joke. Also I put that before your posting so I'm not sure how it affects you personally.

Since the original posting I have been overwhelmed and somewhat upset by the vehemence and the accusatory nature of some contributions. My feelings on the matter have been focussed and strengthened. I feel I've been forced to justify my stance. I wrote 'end of' in the vain hope of putting the thread to bed for good.

My last word on the matter is this: I am doing my absolute best to help my son fulfill his full potential and to be a happy and well adjusted boy. I care far more about what he thinks of himself than what others think of him or me, and I always will.

END OF. THANKYOU AND GOODNIGHT.

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MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 11:26

sorry spidermama - maybe i took you wrong but i took your comments personally 'I can't believe so many of you seem to place fear of scorn above personal freedom. Will you be happy looking back on your lives thinking 'Well, at least I was never teased'? especially as your first line was hello awen.

I was bullied and teased because my mum would make a statement with us. She had strong political views and as children we would parrot her. I think you are right to want your son fulfill his full potential and to be a happy and well adjusted boy.'. I wasnt judging your son in anyway. I was discussing the points made as I thought this was an open discussion board. I feel rather affronted and that you are reprimanding me for responding. Perhaps I am being overly sensitie but if I had been aware that this was a 'closed' discussion i would not have responded.

Blu · 04/07/2005 11:48

Wow! Sorry Spidermama, bump bump bump !

I have been musing on the value of societal norms, and think that human beings base a sense of community on adherence to a shared set of understandings, whether they are valuable per se (such as no spitting or incest) or appear to be fairly arbitary (boys don't wear dresses). They enable us to feel secure in a shared set of 'codes'. Look how firecely immigrant communities hold to 'old' habits - it is a well-told tale that immigrnat comunities frequently adhere to customs that are long out-dated in their original country / community. Children begin life with no hint of any of it, and we gradually 'socailise' them, and if people make chellenges it is either juvenile and tiresome, or genuinly progressive. Women wearing trousers sparked physical violence and speeches in parliament when it first happened in this country!

I think dresses are fundementally illogical - they restrict movement by being either too tight or too revaling in certain physical activity. They are IMO, like high-heels, 'impractical' clothing, designed to accentuate femininity in the sense of vulnerability, and i think this is wht boys wearing dresses attracts SO much discomfort, compared to other things deemed entilrey acceptable. I think there is a sense in which it is a lowering of status for a boy to wear dresses - hence the 'comedy' factor of men in drag.

Some people will be the natural vanguard in challenging and progressing social norms - the big difference between them and other bullied individuals is that they are choosing to take their own initiative. All the examples of bullying or teasing given on this thread are of children fored to endure something over which they personally had no control - through poverty or parents with little sensitivity - or because, like Aloha's classmate, self-control had never been allowed / enabled to develop.

OR, like my DS being called 'chocolate face' something they can do nothing about - and would not want to do anything about - anyway.

MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 11:57

well put blu. Totally agree. .. that is a first for me.

Blu · 04/07/2005 12:07

Now, I've decided, I'm all in favour of NO children wearing dresses!

This is after watching a 3 year-old in a tight denim skirt unable to climb the steps to a slide, and my 8 year-old niece stumbling around trying to climb in a pair of (high street standard issue shoes for 8-year-olds) slip on wedges, ffs.

AND that while we're creating cohesive communities through adherence to shared codes, we help our children promote tolerance (often given as a partiular British strength), by not passing on prejudices to be parroted.

tamum · 04/07/2005 12:12

Excellent idea Blu. I haven't worn a dress for about 10 years so it would suit me just fine

MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 12:23

know what you mean blu. And it is ffs - kids should be kids not mini adults. High heels for girls, tight denim for 3 years olds.. i think it is terrible and is sexualising kids to an extent. For example was it asda doing bras and kincikers for 7 year olds? It really makes me cross cos children should be allowed to be children altho this i think is a whole new discussion and not on same lines as origianl post.

Blu · 04/07/2005 12:25

Indeed - but it doea blow the cover on the value of anything being 'socially acceptable' as a logical basis for making decisions!

MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 12:26

for risk of being shot down.. are these clothes 'socially' accetable for youngsters. I think adviertising/markieting co's have tried to make it so but have asda stopped selling the underwear range because of public complaints?

spidermama · 04/07/2005 12:29

I hardly dare write this, but spiderboy is partial too, no obsessed with, high heels. I myself have never worn them. I don't even know where he has seen them. Barbie probably! You'll be relieved to hear I don't allow him to indulge in this.

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Blu · 04/07/2005 12:32

Quite Right - he could break his ankle!

LOL Spidermama. he's a character, isn't he? I'm very fond of him, already. I think he's going to go far.

MamaMaiasaura · 04/07/2005 12:34

lol spidermama. He sounds lovely. Despite all of what i have written ds has nicked my silky nighty and stashed it under his pillow. He wouldnt ever want friends to know tho!