Intimate waxing

[ToadRage]

A friend of mine keeps telling me to get this done but I just don't have the confidence. I like the idea of being hair free down there and the bits I can't quite reach with my razor but I still can't bring myself to book it. Do a lot of women do this and how did you get over the initial embarrassment?

i didn’t say we feel ‘dirty’, I said we feel cleaner. Particularly during our periods.

I have been having a Hollywood for probably 20 years. There’s really very little to it, and it’s certainly not embarrassing.

You're splitting hairs there (if you'll excuse the pun). It still seems like such a shame that you, and your daughter particularly, feel the need to go to all that palaver in order to feel 'cleaner'.

As always, the most judgement on what women do with their own bodies, comes from other women. It’s not “sad” at all, it’s a grown woman making her own choice. Most men don’t seem to care either way, but a lot of women feel entitled to judge. No idea why. Your body your choice, you are hurting precisely no one.

Do you really think men don't care? It seems quite the opposite, with many teenage boys and men placing a lot of pressure on women to go hairless - such is the power of the porn industry sadly.

What palaver? It’s a 15 minute appointment once a month. And it is cleaner. That’s just a fact if you use pads and not tampons during your period.

I literally said: "people should do what they like/prefer"

But the fact that a 16-year-old girl feels 'less clean' if she doesn't wax her entire vulva hairless, is sad.

No judgement on the individuals, but it says something about society.

It is not sad. She doesn’t want to have her pubic hair coated in blood during the day when she is on her period. That isn’t sad. That is personal choice.

The first time she got it done was for going on holiday and wearing a skimpy bikini. Then she realised how much easier her heavy periods were to manage if she just had a small landing strip and so now she gets it done every month, like me.

Why is that sad??

I'm not sure that period blood on your skin, versus period blood on hair, can really create that big a difference when you have access to hot running water. One could argue pads are generally less clean than tampons, I guess, but it seems inappropriate to imply period blood is 'dirty'.

Anyway, as I said, you do you. But the dirty/clean, or well-groomed/untidy, or sexy/off-putting narrative that society puts out there is something I find saddening.

Blood doesn’t soak into skin, but in does soak into hair and then cake and dry. Have you ever had a period?

Access to hot water? What are you talking about? She is in school. She’s not washing her pubic hair in the school toilets.

This isn’t society having a view on pubic hair. This is personal choice. I seriously doubt DD has ever seen porn. She’s never had a sexual partner. She is not influenced by what society thinks about pubic hair.

What I find more sad is that you feel the need to judge what other women and girls choose to do with their bodies.

I haven't used pads since I was 13, but when I did, I didn't notice that issue. But I'm not sure how it helps if one immediately begins bleeding into a pad again? It doesn't seem any more 'clean'.

As I said, I'm not judging the people who do it negatively. I just think it's sad that a person feels less clean/more dirty if they don't remove the hair from their genitals. That strikes me as societal messaging (as I doubt your daughter got the idea to begin waxing out of her own head - she had to have heard about it from somewhere).

There is no personal choice ever made that isn't influenced in some way by the society you live in. But there's no point in discussion if you don't ascribe to the feminist concept that 'the personal is political', so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I’m old but I’ve never been pressured by any man as to what to do or not with my pubic hair. Frankly, most have just seemed pleased to be in the presence of a naked woman. And if I was, they’d be in the straight out the door. And THAT is what I teach my daughters. I am of course aware of increasing accessibility of porn etc, so I teach DDs….Your body, your choice, do what works for you, not things to please other people (men or women) and nothing that makes you uncomfortable. As it happens, one waxes, one doesn’t. Personal choice.

LOADS of people think men with beards are ungroomed and untidy, and that having no facial hair is more clean than having a beard (that food etc can get stuck in - not that i've ever seen this myself!) you cannot tell me it's not a thing that people think hair = ungroomed and or/dirty and it's NOT just pubic hair. Do you find this narrative saddening?

As l said up thread, “hairy” is supposed to be a common porn search term.

Both blood (l’m in my later 40s, periods are as heavy with some clotting, as they are unpredictable) and wee all end up on your hair if you have it.

Yesterday evening l was out with 2 men, one had a beard and one was clean shaven. That is a term, it is not suggesting the clean shaven one was physically cleaner.

Do you honestly think that a girl doing whatever she can to make her heavy periods easier to manage is anti-feminist? It has no more to do with ‘the personal is political’ than you choosing to use tampons as opposed to pads.

One might argue that you choosing to insert a foreign object into your body rather than let it flow naturally as nature intended could also be described as sad.

Actually, many studies show that beards are perceived positively on men more often than negatively and preferred over a close shave, including this one.

I don't think you understand feminist theory, as no, I'm not saying that a girl choosing to wax her vulva is anti-feminist.

And as I'm secure in my choices, and the reason behind them, I won't be bothered by whatever feelings you have about my menstrual hygiene products.

it does hurt and you do have to put your embarrassment to one side. I used to do it before kids now I don't give a fuck about my foof.

Ok, and if I link to a random study that shows that a lot of women feel positively if they wax than don't, then what? Your link is irrelevant to me. I'm sure this one is irrelevant to you too. You could find another that says the opposite!

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10309412/

"Women who are satisfied with the appearance of their own genitalia have a stronger preference for complete removal of pubic hair" that's part of the conclusion. Does this mean anything to you?

You are purposely ignoring that a lot of people think facial hair = ungroomed and or dirty and you know it. See a few links below. I can do MANY more

You sound very, very judgemental against women and what they do with their bodies.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4704571-to-be-raging-at-the-revolting-beard-my-dh-has-grown

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2174421-to-think-beards-and-moustaches-on-men-are-generally-very-unattractive-and-probably-unhygenic-too

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4584158-dh-is-shaving-his-face-tonight

I am well into my 40s and since l was about 17 the only hair on my body has been on my head. I’ve gone from shaving, to Veet or similar and now waxing.

When l was a teen my mum, very much a feminist, knew and took the “it’s your body” approach. I am no less a feminist than someone who sports pubic hair. I’m not suggesting l’m more of a feminist either.

Have there been influences? Of course there have, even down to the style of clothes l wear. Key influences on the hair issue have been, in no particular order, elder sister, who did the same and still does, friends at school laughing at “pokies” that is pubes sticking out from swimwear, high leg Brazilian bikinis and knickers.

But l have not been male influenced, any more than l try to look nice for a night out. Those who see me without my knickers on have to take me as they find me.

I understand just fine.

And I have zero feelings on your (or anyone else’s) choice of feminine hygiene products. It is a matter of personal choice. Just the same as waxing.

It’s weird that your friend keeps telling you to get it done. Why is she so interested in your pubes?

I had it done once. I'm not the kind of person to find it embarrassing particularly, but I wouldn't get it done by someone I knew

I'd never get it done again though - the ingrown hairs afterwards

I'm so confused about other people's arm's length relationships with close friends though! I'm always talking to friends about this kind of thing

Yes, socialisation means that women in Western society generally feel more positive about their bodies if they make their vulvas hairless, and worse if they don't. That's exactly the point I'm making, thank you!

That study is interesting, from a quick skim! It shows:

"the pornography industry has influenced female hair removal habits, because younger people who were exposed to this trend of hair removal for longer periods of their lives tend to show higher rates of complete pubic hair removal compared with older people"

"men were more likely to prefer sexual partners with completely depilated genitalia"

"the main reasons women removed their pubic hair were to achieve a cleaner appearance of the pubic region, and the belief that pubic hair is unattractive"

"Most women preferred complete removal of their pubic hair, irrespective of the extent of their satisfaction with the appearance of their genitalia"

It does also state that:

"Our analysis of the reason for preferring female pubic hair depilation indicated that hygiene was the major reason in women, and beauty was the major reason in men. Even though the presence of body hair in general is not associated with poor hygiene, many people apparently believe that pubic hair can accumulate debris and complicate genital cleaning, and thereby facilitate the acquisition of infections. This may explain why women considered hygiene as the major reason for removal of pubic hair."

"The results of this study are consistent with previous studies that reported that consuming pornography and erotica can influence preferences for pubic hair removal"

You forgot to come back to me about the facial hair thing