Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

[[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FdQbdNEUpGqOyH2oqBQZBVsKISieRgxW_F67mgRLSrw/edit?usp=sharing Consignment shops, Vintage, an
d Restaurants]]

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Previous thread

I would genuinely love to have a discussion about how the S&B board has changed, I think it's fascinating. I can't remember either when I last saw a thread about a high street-designer collab so I don't think it can all be down to cost of living. But I can't figure out a way to start one which wouldn't involve anyone setting the dogs on me.

That's a beautiful coat, I really must go back and look at all the details more closely. I was talking entirely from first impressions yesterday, and I was mostly curious (and still am) as to why you'd walk away from Celine, take 6 years off, and then come back with a collection that doesn't look so very different from what you could have done for your old employer.

I'm just reading the older woman thing again bo. I'm not sure - it certainly doesn't chime very much with my lifestyle but then I never expected it to! I'm wondering if PP is imagining herself in 10 years time and designing the kinds of clothes she thinks she might want to wear then. I'll need to think about it.

Before I go, a quick heads up that Community Clothing emailed to say they're raising their prices from midnight tonight. It's coincided with me having to retire two favourite everyday trousers - the Uniqlo U curve leg in cotton twill from....I dunno, 6 years ago? I wasn't going to start looking for a replacement straight away as spare cash is a little tight right now, but this might galvanise me into a quick smash n' grab.

Oh mes amies PP can absolutely feck off with that website. I abhor people selling clothes who just can't admit that's what they're doing and have to create speshul websites that are not merely about such pedestrian aims as trade to peddle their wares. That red when it's sold out? Tragic! Props for their being a size guide though, unprops for it being garment measurements I think (or else I'd fit into a FR sz 40 and let's face it this is not the case). Anyway, here's a long link to the tailored top, turns out if you copy link to the picture and open in another window you get the actual colours and not the REDRUM version, but I am no longer interested in perusing the site:

https://www.phoebephilo.com/media/catalog/product/B/R/BR66_WO0258_840BA_01_fb07.jpg?optimize=medium&bg-color=255%2C255%2C255&fit=bounds&height=6000&width=6000&quality=100

I mean it's fine? I don't feel inspired though. Could be the shitty website.

My boots! They are gorgeous and with some trepidation I have kept them. So far not slippery in cold and rain. WIll see when the slush comes if they become lethal (hope not). A little loose on the right heel, a little tight over the little toes and a little squeezy over the wide part of the foot, but I decided fuck it, I'm hoping for the (beautiful) leather to stretch. Nothing I found fit great and I might as well buy something I liked the look of if all I get is bad fit. ;) I look down at my toes and smile at the colour <3

That said, I don't walk like a normal person, even in that little heel. Clearly very much a non-heel person.

Ah, interesting Uncertain, I'm under 40 and just not feeling it all and was thinking it's for the over 50s. I typed this out the below before seeing your comment but MN is being annoying and wouldn't post.

Flo, maybe older isn't the exact right term, upper end of middle age maybe? But in fashion terms that's positively ancient. I don't think it's a fixed idea of this woman either, there's different iterations.

The zipped trousers for example, there's no point in owning those if you're not prepared to zip those open when there's occasion for it but to do that convincingly you need to be more Carine Roitfield, totally at ease with her sensuality as opposed to this younger experience of sexiness that's often based on random men telling you that you're hot unasked.

While other pieces like the coat and the brown top feel much more guarded, authorative but in a respected kind of way rather than the warrior woman trope that the fashion industry regurgitates in an endless loop.

I complained about the apparent lack of evolution in style, but I think there definitely has been an evolution in how she views and caters to her customers. It's less of the hanging back introverted comfortable in your skin style and it's a lot more unapologetically present. Desmond (I think) mentioning she just turned 50, I can't help but think that it was probably something that informed her process.

Interesting article on BoF by the way [[https://archive.ph/AxVHo here sans pay wall] on the business model of it. I didn't realise there will be two more drops for this initial collection. Not sure if that means restock or additional items, there were definitely some items in the picture gallery that were not there. I did have a brief moment of regret about the black turtleneck, too pricey in my mind but it would release me from finding another, sold out by the time I thought of just giving it an order to see.

I'll get to reading about CBK later, I've noticed fashion designers seem to be gravitating to a lot of muses that died young, it was Diana a few years ago, I guess you can project a lot on to them as they're sort of not real.

Bani, excellent news on the boots, finally some you like and thanks for the redrum hack.

How on earth did you come up with that redrum hack Bani, you genius.

I am late 40s and I saw the PP collection as for people over mid 50s/early 60s.
Interesting… or maybe I am a childish late 40s

Forgot to congratulate Bani about the boots! Hurray!

Bonjour mes amies!

Meh to PP - I am definitely not the target audience for this as I completely forgot about the launch until I saw this thread had updated 🫣 I stand with Bani [waves] on the speshul-ness of the site and REDRUM annoyance factor.

At least to me it comes across as treading a fine line between dull vs understated and (whisper it) quiet luxury. It must be hard to pitch it right.

Thinking of bo’s coveted black sweater, Joseph always have good lightweight black high neck sweater for layering that might fit your needs?

Not really looking forward to seeing all the high street rip-offs interpretations, with shit viscose trousers with bum-zips being my bet for the 2023 Xmas party / NYE look of choice

Ha! I definitely felt it was stylistically inviting to people of my age (over 60) who, having made better life decisions than I ever did, can click ‘Buy’ with an unconcerned shrug of the shoulders.

I did think of the collection as I was going to bed last night: what a triumph it must feel for PP; whether it made my own Winter wardrobe feel irredeemably dowdy (no, thank God!); whether there might be an accessible piece of jewellery in the next drop …

I love that skirt certain and yay for near-perfect boots bani

Interesting how we all perceived the target demographic. I thought my age (early 40s) up to 60s. Though obviously could be worn by any age, I'm talking target market.

Anyway on a more mundane note I wore my new-to-me trousers. Kudos to botemp for pulling these from an Oxfam rail. A little short for me with anything other than these boots. I'm enjoying the military, but make it comfortable, vibe!

I have thoughts on the S&B forum. Briefly I feel like it's got really snipey and a lot of threads are a race to see who can post the most scathing remark. I generally despise anyone imploring women to "be kind" so maybe I'll say instead that it would be nice if people gave more benefit of the doubt, or were a bit more diplomatic. I also agree that there's a dearth of excitement about, well, anything. Even if was fast fashion, a celebrity collab, or a new Roman catalogue (okay not the last one, I have my limits) I'd take it.

So basically we have the 30/40/50 and 60+ age groups all represented on this thread and no-one thinks it's targeted at their own demographic

I'm not sure about the snipeyness. I mean, I agree the level has increased of late but I don't think it's a new phenomenon, plus I've been in enough skirmishes myself in my time so who I am to judge. What I do think is more recent - and to be honest, beginning to get me down - is the negativity.

Great trousers Elle, and I'm very impressed with your charity shop skills bo.

Very pleased for you about the boots bani!

Oh sorry Crkd I missed your post about the 60+ demographic! Like I said, I did wonder if she'd been thinking about imaginary of women 10 years older than herself and getting some, but not all of it, right. I do think that, if I were an art dealer living on the Upper West Side, I might have been more tempted. But then again my interactions with Manhattan art dealers have consisted mainly of watching 'Six Degrees of Separation' so what do I know.

No worries!

I do think you’d have to be unassailably senior to manage the Mr Tumnus trousers with appropriate swagger - though the accompanying black coat / white shirt would make anyone grand.

Weirdly I’m realising I missed half the PP site yesterday - either my ancient laptop or launch frenzy - so didn’t see the jewellery at all until today. (Apart from the MN sponsored necklace.) Still heartbroken over some pearl earrings I was too mean to buy years ago.

But today I’ve seen something I’d actually love. Not available yet! Cream sequinned dress, long sleeved, body skimming - exactly the shape of some of my favourite dresses and something I’d feel at ease wearing if I had a me-centred thing to wear it to. But it would be all the prize money.

On another note, @ToEllewithIt‘s trousers fit exactly as I’d like my two year old Raey chinos to fit - but they don’t.

Funny how we all felt, "it isn't for me" about PP. When I first opened it, I thought, oh, more huge shirts, blazers, and wool trousers, how many of those does one need? So at first sight (of an untrained eye) it didn't look very distinct from what is everywhere at the moment (someone mentioned corporate?). Then of course one sees the detail, the cutout top, etc.

The second stage was thinking, what kind of event/job one would wear it to? Again, at a loss. Finance but also somehow red carpet? For Frieze you'd need more crazy. Finance and law are probably more conservative. For the art world it is a bit too neat

In the end, of course, I notice that there is a pair of jeans and a jumper that would together form a casual outfit - except the footwear was really strange. I guess I had a completely unrealistic expectation that it would look like nothing around us now, and with exceptions, it doesn't. It looks quite a bit like Joseph, even, definitely some quiet luxury vibes, which I am sick of

The good news is I see that dress online and still available.

The bad news: it's €14,000

I love the length of that dress.
ouch at the price.

The conclusion I’ve come to from a second or third look is that they are clothes for people who have the luxury of guaranteed s p a c e all around them.

You’d absolutely need that in a Cecilie Bahnsen frock (original iteration rather than the new narrow) but they’re special occasion clothes which would command an admiring audience standing several steps back. The PP jumpers and trousers, say, look like workaday garments, but the whole point and all the detail would be lost on a packed Tube platform. Even if they cost pennies they can only be everyday clothes for people whose office space is measured in acres.

Perhaps that’s part of their appeal for me though. On the rest of MN people are obsessed with clothes being as small and inconspicuous as possible. Partly to ‘flatter your waist’, but I always suspect mostly because taking up space is seen as immodest and unladylike. At least PP is saying bollocks! to that.

The PP collection has the tycoon's art collecting wife written large on it. For a gallery opening somewhere swanky or an afternoon discussing what to buy with one of one's favourite dealers, it would be perfect. No chance of being in a crush with the great unwashed as @CrkdLttrCrkdLttr noted.

And IIRC she is married to the art dealer who started the Hauser & Wirth gallery and restaurant that put Bruton in Somerset on the map. I did like the high-heel red shoe-boots and the jeans and the cabas... just not the prices! (And I couldn't walk far in the boots: why does no-one warn women that the only place on your body that loses fat as you age is the soles of the feet?)

Congratulations on getting some boots sorted ahead of the winter, bani. Fingers crossed they have the correct non-slip quality.

And excellent Oxfam trophy fatigues, botemp and Elle: well done both of you. I am looking for something similar but black... all my black jeans have turned threadbare simultaneously.

I love the Oxfam fatigues - they look great.

I hadn't been into the PP website until just now. Them making sold out things go red and removing the prices is so irritating. By the sound of things I wouldn't/couldn't be interested but I could have had a bigger rummage and a dream. I love the £13K dress - hand-knitted then hand-worked to sew on the sequins. Gosh.

I love how they've called it a 'T shirt dress' like it was Uniqlo or American Vintage! I assume too that it has hidden underpinnings that make your belly disappear? I'm curious though. If you had 13K to spend on a dress would you really buy one off the internet? Wouldn't you expect a personal fitting with Phoebe herself in attendance? Or does that all fall into place once you click 'Buy'? If it was for sale now, I'd be tempted to do that just to see what happened but I'd probably just set off an alarm in the fraud squad.

I would love if you had Insta flo and gave a commentary on your thoughts of some of the feeds there on PP.…. Specially the one with a nude lady from the back and her leg completely up… stating PP is now open. 😳

I liked the look of the PP clothes, and thought they would work anywhere from mid-40s up. But they are not made for a body which is not straight up straight down. Also not for someone as vertically challenged and horizontally blessed (ha) as I.

Hmm, I'd promised myself not to get involved in S&B meta squabbles again but it seems I can't help myself.

I think there's a couple things happening at once, the general internet thing of people having very strong opinions on things which they're not actually that invested in and often have little knowledge about they just want to feed off of feeling righteous and worthy.

There's definitely a trolling problem, not so much outside actors rummaging about, but disenchanted former users who aren't quite ready to let go of something they were a part of for a long time so instead hit all the buttons that'll get reactions on here as a form of interaction knowing how to operate just within guidelines.

And then, the thing that's always plagued S&B, people feeling personally attacked if you don't like what they like (to wear).

All of the above is probably causing a lot of digital fatigue leaving people to interact less. It definitely feels like S&B is becoming very bland, high spending posters are self censoring with some awareness of the COL crisis (not all, but I don't see it often and in some cases the backlash is justified). But the opposite end seems to have been scared off too, and I don't blame them, any questions about what are considered evil fast fashion places and you get all the green warriors denouncing those posters as scum and basically insinuating they're not managing their money right. So instead we get lots of everything in the shops is horrible, everything was better in the old days (completely ignoring that that was mostly down to sweatshops and child labour), wah wah threads.

And I agree there's a startling lack of excitement about newness. Which, has got me pondering. I'm not really prepared to do another Advent calendar, but maybe just a visual version, mood board-ish, just picking up bits of exciting newness from my inbox/feeds from the day before that bring a bit of light to the darker days of the year? If others are up for it too it could be a separate off shoot thread? I promise not to post spread eagle pics Red 😉 🦅

I had more to respond to other posts but this is already overly long. Will check in later.