Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

[windmill26]

I am middle aged and I have no problems finding nice clothes in the shops (both high street and designer).I don't pay much attention to the marketing but I mainly focus on the clothes not the model wearing them. From the pics you have attached I would wear the MH shirt in pic 1 and all the Studio Nicholson in pic 5 (maybe not together). I have my own style and I know what I like and what suits my middle age body.I also buy with longevity in mind .I expect to wear the item for years so I pay attention to the cut and the material.

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

@microbius Have a look here:

www.gentlewench.com/new-aw20/

and here:

www.machine-a.com/collections/ss23-collections (I know I’m old because their updated website gives me a headache.)

Between them you might find a brand you like the look of.

LN-CC is more bling than experimental these days but 🤫it is well worth stalking their sales.

More ‘naice’ - but full of wondrous things:

Envoy

La Garçonne Always cross check their prices with other sources.

Random, arbitrary, fewer and fewer discoveries, but still worth a look:

YBD

Sorry these are all multiple designer places rather than individual designer sites, they’re a brilliant place to find names you can then pursue more directly. Pretty much every brand that cares about design has been influenced one way or another by Comme des Garçons, so it just depends which interpretation you favour.

You could of course spend your entire life at DSML but all the good stuff is £££ and gone before the sales.

[thedevilinablackdress]

I recently gave away a wool skirt such as you described @Floisme it may have been Eastex or Jaeger. I loved it but also didn't and I now realise it's because it wasn't quite long enough. Sigh.

[ThighMistress]

@Floisme you may struggle to get a longer Eastex skirt because they were for the shorter woman. I know because my mother lived in Eastex and she was 5’2”. She also wore a lot of the rather unfortunately-named Richard Stump

[Floisme]

Yeah it really needs to be the right length thedevil otherwise it gives off a whole other vibe and not the one I'm looking for! But I'm short so hopefully there will be one coming along soon. It's the weight that makes them stand out - the lining is sturdier than the main fabric of most modern skirts - and means they should hang really well.

[Floisme]

Ah thanks ThighMistress - I'm staying hopeful, at least for now, because I'm short! I've seen one that would have been the right length but it had a teeny tiny waist.

[ThighMistress]

Old Jaeger is very nice - so well made. I still have some of my early 90s clothes - Banana Republic when they were only in the US and (plain) Laura Ashley evening stuff and they have been serving me well for, er, decades.

Bery envious of those with naice charity shops, only bobbly Primark and George in the ones here. And as for the books… weep!

[MerryChristmasToYou]

@ThighMistress , the charity shops near me are brilliant. Lots of
Primark and bobbly George but I've managed to find some marvellous things there. Squashed rails of tat, run your hand through them and there may be something like Toast, Isabel Marant or Seen by Chloe hidden in there.
I've picked up some interesting-looking dresses in good fabric for £2, that when I looked up the brands were desirable ones.

You can buy something naff with good buttons and use the buttons on something else.
Some desirable brands are not particularly good quality.

[ThighMistress]

Chloe !!!! Ha ha. If a 15-year-old faded Boden “hotchpotch” top lands up in a charity shop here they have it spinning on a special stand in the window.

Incidentally, I presume one needs to size up with vintage clothes? When I was a teen a size 8 was a complete rarity; now on say QVC a size 8 is a 40” chest .

[MerryChristmasToYou]

Sorry, See by Chloe. It fits beautifully too.
Got a Sezane dress a couple of weeks ago, it needs a wash, that's all.
Got a Burberry shirt for £1, needs underarm stains removed.
Got a long Poetry cashmere cardigan before Christmas, and gave it as a gift.
This is all from rails of what looks like Primark and Shein, and were £3 or less each.

Boden is a tricky one - the old stuff is excellent, the recent stuff looks like Primark

[Pigtailsandall]

Oh my goodness where are these charity shops?? I have one (1) within walking distance. I do live in a particularly deprived area, and whenever I take stuff there they are always super-excited. I found a new with stages on COS long-sleeve t-shirt.. at £17. Everything else is Primark and supermarket stuff, maybe some Topshop and Zara thrown in. I'm v jealous of lovely charity shops. I also really miss thrifting in north America

[MerryChristmasToYou]

They're in a fairly rough town @Pigtailsandall . The best bargains are often out of season, and they sometimes restock the rails after closing but before the customers have finished paying.

Not all my bargains have been in my size, but I look out for family members who are in a different part of the country. I'm pretty good at knowing what will wow them e.g. I found a £2 Betty Barclay jumper, as good as new, that had a 1980s Sonia Rykiel vibe, and the recipient was delighted with it, it was bright and on-trend and bound to have people asking where she got it.

The shops in nicer towns nearby stock more things like Barbour, Boden and Seasalt, but they more expensive. It doesn't quite have the same buzz as finding a £4 DvF dress in a rail of Next and Boohoo.

[Pigtailsandall]

@MerryChristmasToYou I'm gonna make you my personal charity shop scout/buyer. You get 20% commission on top of the sale price 😆

[microbius]

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr and bo, thank you very much for the links and names

[Thesystemonlydreamsintotaldarkness]

@mewkins

Wet Leg (the band)? 😄

I quite like both of those dresses though.

Not gonna lie; I love both these dresses.

but way out of my budget unfortunately!

see, when im older and not paying for childcare, im gonna splash out on these type of dresses

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

It’s a pleasure, @microbius - not least because I almost never mention most of those sites here. (Is there a word for xenophobia towards clothes?)

(I have realised the fault is in me when an OP in possession of money and maturity asks for something ‘different’ for a wedding or other event - and inevitably, invariably, ends up choosing a Bombshell dress - and I feel quite pointlessly disappointed.)

So feel free to come back with full and detailed reviews!

[botemp]

I just have a few remarks about your list Crkd, while they were nice to me in the Goodwench and Dover Street Market shops (they even fawned over my ancient pair of Asics running shoes at DSM) they could be pretty snide or downright rude about other customers which marks both businesses down in my book. I hate this aspect of fashion retail and ones carrying conceptual brands tend to be the worst for it. But just around the corner from Goodwench at UJNG the staff were really lovely and they carry some really interesting brands that I hadn't come across elsewhere.

My first order with LN-cc was also a never ending back and forth battle with their customer service of six months as they only partially delivered the order and wanted to charge me for it all, they acknowledged their fault but it took months for it to get fixed. I've had better experiences since and it's been a few years but I'm still cautious whenever I put in an order there.

I never dare mention SSense on here, on account of this they present their clothes but also amazing sales but pricey shipping.

I'd also flag up for the MH/SN contingent, or basically anyone who loves simple design in really nice weighty fabrics. There was a sustainable startup, Riley Studio, I came across it secondhand but they wanted a lot of money for it and it had a strong scent of perfume that washing powder wasn't able to mask so it wasn't for me and they've gone bust since (I think) but I've just spotted the Outnet seems to have some of their stock, mostly medium sizes and upwards.

Pre-Brexit (I'm in the EU) I always quite liked to discover new clothing brands on Trouva, which is mainly small independent shops who sell home wares but some stock clothing too.

[VenusClapTrap]

Well this thread is a breath of fresh air. I’ve got stuck in a Hush/Mint Velvet rut in recent years and I’m so bored.

I always loved clothes but feel like I don’t know what to wear any more now I’m no longer young and thin. I went into town yesterday to wander round the shops - not done that in ages - and the high street was utterly uninspiring. Everything cheap and nasty, even shops I used to think of as a treat.

I’m enjoying looking through the links on here and feeling inspired. I am short though, so I found myself nodding along to the poster who has difficulties with this sort of aesthetic. I look awful in Cos, Arket, Toast et al.

[VenusClapTrap]

I bloody love the Batsheva x Laura Ashley collection.

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

@botemp The mere possibility of rudeness or snideness from shop assistants is one reason why I’m on my knees with gratitude for the Internet. In truth I’ve rarely encountered any in clothes shops. (Unlike my one shocking visit to a Plain English kitchen shop, a long time ago - I guess I just didn’t look English enough.) But, despite loving the environment, I always used to feel the pressure to prove I had a right to be there - online shopping is a billion times less stressful in that sense, even with all the unpredictability in goods and service.

I will add UJNG to my list - thank you.

I’ve had excellent things from The Outnet in the past - but I’ve read so many complaints on their recent service.

One of my very best jackets - by Gembalies, which is hard to come by in England - was from Vestiaire, and I was beyond excited when I first came upon the site years ago. It was thrilling to see ‘iconic’ items being sold for … less. But I didn’t enjoy the waiting. And, while my purchase was perfect, the risks and palaver if anything goes wrong are just too off-putting for me to make shopping there, or at other online re-sale places, a habit. This is what sends me back to the places I know I can rely on.

[botemp]

The only bad experience I had was at fancy homeware shop/gallery and I was 15 and looking and touching everything so I can sort of see why they didn't take me all that serious. But I still hate seeing it and I think it reflects badly on whoever hired them. It means I won't recommend a friend going somewhere even if they might like the clothes there as I don't want them having a bad experience.

The internet certainly has made things more accessible but it's a poor replacement for a good shop experience. Some just have really great staff who can just see by the things you're staring at a little longer than the rest what you like and can pull out great pieces you maybe wouldn't consider and walk out there feeling great in a way an unboxing just never does. I don't think any AI will ever be sophisticated enough to replicate that. It's also nice to be among your fellow fashion nuts. Granted, these types of places are rare but I've got a little list of them from all over the world stashed away and it's always great to revisit when traveling, plus they make for excellent souvenirs in my closet.

Dover Street Market really is a bit of a tourist attraction these days tbh, the staff are more like gallery attendants there to make sure no one sullies the goods. I was in one of their pop ups in Paris recently, that was even odder, so much so I can't really describe it as I've yet to make sense of it all.

[MerryChristmasToYou]

Saywood Studio is worth checking out for sustainable classics with a twist type clothes.
Beaumont Organics looks ok too.

[CrunchyCarrot]

I recently discovered Wrap and have bought a few things from them recently, love them! Unfortunately they are limited in the shades you can buy so sometimes I see an item I love but no colour that would flatter me.

www.wraplondon.co.uk/

I completely rely on the Internet for shopping as I injured my back many years ago and can no longer go out to shop. I used to love clothes shopping!

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

It’s true a good in person shopping experience can’t be replicated.

Returning to marketing and demographic positioning by brands - can I mention another place I usually wouldn’t dare to bring up in polite MN conversation? (If you’re still reading, @VenusClapTrap, it might be a nice contrast to your Hush/Mint Velvet rut.) I’ve bought just one thing so far (via an LN-CC sale) but I love this label with my whole heart. I’m linking to the Collection page because the new Spring shopping link doesn’t make it obvious the clothes are for women, of any age, as well as men, but this page does.

Camiel Fortgens

When I say I like raggedy clothes I usually mean ‘like a half finished couture frock’. This is a whole other world of ragged - but somehow it just sings to me. Only three things have stopped me from buying their whole collection every season: 1) I’m too poor, 2) Brexit and a new fear of ordering from Europe, 3) I just don’t move amongst people who would understand. I’m well aware these are not the sort of clothes respectable middle aged Englishwomen are supposed to aspire to or wear.

So some conversation and opinions would be exceptionally welcome …