Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

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Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

Y.A.S is a sort of an Essentiel Antwerp cheaper alternative but it's not stellar quality (but neither is EA). They have some styles using eco friendly viscose which is where I've linked to but it's not a green brand. It's part of the Bestseller group, so comparable to brands like Vero Moda.

I agree that it's impossible for an independent designer to work for that little.

@LolaSmiles , good fabric is expensive.
I have tried selling homemade clothes, made to 'designer' standard, that I haven't worn, and people seem to think I'll sell it for less than the fabric cost.

MerryChristmasToYou That must feel like a kick in the teeth after putting in that much effort and skill in.

Out of interest did you make anything out of linen? If so, where did you get it from? I'm looking for a nice muted colour linen after seeing some nice, but out of my budget, summer maxis and wide leg trousers.

(Sorry for hijacking OP's thread. It's sort of relevant to demographics, mainly I can't afford some of the things I like because I'm not their demographic 😂)

Lola, MacCulloch & Wallis has some beautiful French linens, at least last time I was there and they sell online too. It was reasonably priced (from memory).

I like the quality of design of these clothes but I would look awful in them. My go to range from Reiss/Hobbs to Max Mara and I spice up classic pieces with small designers from SEE (quite a few of notice I discovered during my travels there) and Turkey. Lagami, PlusMinus, Burcu Aslan... interesting designs and high-standard execution.

Should have added the links:

plusminusfashion.com/our-shop/

www.lagami.com/

burcuaslan.shop/collections/couture

One of my favourite designers is Salim Azzam. Interesting shapes, beautiful embroidery and supports his local community in Lebanon.

salimazzam.com/collections/salim-azzam-at-home

@LolaSmiles , it's a relative who makes them, and in cotton. The relative is a qualified tailor/seamstress, but sometimes if I ask for something, they'll make a few.
A lot of people seem too think that a tailor/seamstress is the same as someone running up a Tilly &the Buttons dress on a home sewing machine.

@Mercurial123 , the embroidery is beautiful. Thanks for the links everyone.

Merchant & Mills have nice linen and other fabrics.
I took up dressmaking briefly a few years ago after a visit to Whistles, eyeing up a fairly simple elasticated waist skirt that was something like £150 and deciding I could do that.
It was fun, but ultimately an expensive hobby with the risk of ruinous mistakes!

I've had my eye on that dress for a while and took the plunge. Bought it on Coggles site which was the cheapest and it had 15% off for first order. I fear however their sizes will be on the small side.

Enjoying reading everyone's thoughts and having my own perceptions challenged.

I was also going to say, get sewing. There is an amazing choice of fabrics and patterns now. I use patterns by Closet Core and Assembly Line as well as Merchant and Mills.

Also it gives you control over the third factor after style and affordability, which is fit.

@popularinthe80s you used such a great phrase earlier - the playful delight I have in collecting clothes. This is exactly how I feel about discovering clothes; the immense satisfaction in finding someone who weaves the fabric for a one-off coat that would cost more than most cars, for instance. I’m long beyond the point where I feel the need to own an item to enjoy it - sometimes just the concept is enough.

So I probably shop much less often than you. During my City days I used expensive clothes as armour (and, besides, my male colleagues all wore handmade suits). I can be far more relaxed now - but I inherited a leaning towards exclusivity and … craft in clothing (my mother was not impressed by racks and racks of mass produced garments when she first arrived in England) so I still want the ‘best’, insofar as I can reach it. The Internet provides such wicked entertainment, too - what could be more fun than stalking a £1000 frock across seasons until it reaches an acceptable price?

What has this to do with target markets? Oh yes! I wasn’t brought up to believe that stupendously beautiful clothes are only for stupendously wealthy clans. Somehow the British clothing industry has persuaded what seems to be the vast majority of the female population that they should be satisfied with much less …

I'm just catching up so apologies if I backtrack. I must have been pushing 60 when I first picked up some Margaret Howell trousers in a dress agency. To be honest, they looked good but nothing Wow and I bought them largely because they were a decent price and I was curious to see what all the fuss was about. So a label victim purchase really. Then I noticed how they kept their shape all day and how the hem didn't unravel. Then I got into that whole MH style (although not the dresses - I never really look at them). I can only afford it second hand or the odd sales item, but a typical outfit for me is: jeans or slouchy trousers, tailored jacket (contemporary men's or 1940s-1960s women's), men's V-neck cardigan, loose fitting shirt. I can achieve that through a mix of second hand high end brands and high street - Zara, H&M, Cos, Uniqlo etc. Plus I was an avid vintage shopper from around 1974 till the late 90s and although a lot of it got trashed or lost in house moves, I still have a reasonable back catalogue of my own.

In short, at 66 I do ok. My concern is that I can feel my world shrinking. I still prefer real shops but the local high street (and I don't live in the back of beyond) has been entirely broken by 3 lockdowns. I can't see it recovering. Shopping online is a size and quality lottery but also - and I accept this is partly my own mindset - only marginally more enjoyable than shopping for car insurance. So increasingly I stick to a small circuit of local dress agency, market stall and some erratic but occasionally inspiring charity shops, a couple of which have a vintage section. Plus I can still rustle things up from the back of my own wardrobe. It works for now but it's getting stale.

And to come back to the general direction of the thread, I do think online shopping and buying unseen has helped cultivate a 'that'll do' mentality. Plus I think we were thoroughly spoilt by that golden high street era of late 90s till the banking crash, when you genuinely could buy great clothes for silly prices. Those times aren't coming back but it's hard to shake them off.

I feel like, as a woman in my early 40s, there's a real gap in the market for decent (not high end, but not zara/h&m stuff either) tailored stuff. My monthly frivolity budget is about £150 and I dont really want to spend more at this stage of life (small child, unstable fixed-term work contracts etc) as my genuine priority is family and saving. But for £150 I do expect something that doesn't travel within few washes or look like a dishrag after frequent washing. My options seem to be £20 jumper or £200 jumper. I hate scouring the sales because I never get the exact colour/size/style I'm after, and I just don't have hours to trail through vinted or Ebay - I'm also quite picky and won't buy something unless it's just right (an expensive lesson I've learned over time). I do feel like there's literally nothing out there directed at someone in my age bracket, with middle income.

*travel=unravel! Dammit

@Pigtailsandall , how about Mint Velvet, Jigsaw, Phase Eight, Hobb's and Jaeger?

or some of the european brands like Isabel Marant, Agnes B, Comptoir des Cotonniers, Olsen, Gerry Weber etc

Thank you @MerryChristmasToYou but those brands don't often align with my style aesthetic. I've found some good silk/cotton/wool mix knitwear from Jigsaw in the past and I do wear them a lot. Hobbs and Jaeger are a bit too... feminine? To me, the look like their style hasn't moved on from 2010 at all. Although I do have a Hobbs trench coat which I love.

Mint Velvet I genuinely don't get at all. I've been to a few of their shops and it all seems very synthetic west London older-yummy mummy (personal observations so please don't shoot me).

I'm a lot more into the MH aesthetic generally - minimal, bit masculine, sometimes slightly edgy. Like today I'm wearing lightwash jeans, a band t-shirt from the 90s, my husband's white button down shirt and a boxy wool coat.

Thank you again, yes these are more what I like, but I bulk at the prices. Sigh. I think I just need to start paying more, and buying only one item a month

As a shortie, I find that the more pricey the brand, the taller they think you are. And with bigger shoulders and a pair of gibbon arms to boot.

If I look at higher-quality brands, they invariably swamp me. I can’t be doing with alterations, and petite clothing is often very dreary.

I love the MH look, but it’s hard not to end up looking like Sandi Toksvig (sorry, Sandi !) if you’re not willowy.

MH is quite short people friendly, but probably not if you're in proper petite territory. And if you're tall it doesn't automatically work that well either.

Pigtails, I do get what you mean, for £200 you can get something from John Smedley but it's not particularly exciting. If you just want something a little bit more exciting like from Toteme, Almada the Label, Loulou Studio or similar you're expected to pay a huge premium for interesting details and a more modern cut but not a better jumper or material. It only accelerates much more beyond that, heavyweight jumpers I once paid around 300 for now retail at 2k.

I blame all those capsule wardrobes articles that convinced women they just need one very expensive version of something. There's other items that have weirdly inflated prices too, leather belts are another one.

You think tailoring is … frivolous? (“Get outta my pub!”)

But actually, @Pigtailsandall I disagree that those mid range clothes can’t be found. (Apart from knitwear, where, I acknowledge, mid-range simply doesn’t compare to the £200+ brands in terms of craft and design.) The thing is - and I may have said this before - you need to be nimble. You may find what you want at that price at Massimo Dutti, or you can sign up to every emerging designer’s website so you know the moment they release a limited number of beautiful tailored suits made from deadstock Italian fabrics. (Or does one say ‘Italian deadstock’? Though that has ‘Last of Us’ vibes.)

(I still laugh at the outpouring of shock and outrage I cause here a couple of years back by recommending AvAvAv. Singular Italian brand that seems to morph into something fresh each year or season. I had bought a rather beautiful pair of pure wool checked twill trousers during one of their earliest sales. Full price on somewhere like Matches or Net-a-Porter they might have been four or five hundred (only because unlined, otherwise more). I’d never ordered from AvAvAv before. They fitted perfectly. They’re flattering. They garner compliments every time I wear them. I paid £50. So I recommended the brand here. People rushed to see - only to be confronted with some admittedly startling synthetic purple dinosaur feet boots that frightened them to tears. It wasn’t my fault! But shops sold out of pitchforks that week - and I made a regretful name change …)

Catch new companies before they get greedy, while they’re experimenting and perfecting their craft. Then move on when they run out of creative energy. Don’t be loitering hopelessly around High Street brands that had their peak in the 80s or 90s. None of the original designers are there any more - they’ve been bought and sold a hundred times and are now just funnelling money through vaguely held together polyester.

(The only reason this is so long is that I’m waiting for a delayed veg box delivery. 🙄)

Going back to the marketing / models question in the op. I find the absence of my age group intensely annoying - I want to shout, 'Oh come on, I give you my business, the least you could do is acknowledge my existence'. But, if I'm honest, I understand why: I'm sure we've all seen those, 'I like this but I saw a woman at work wear it and she's 50 so it put me off' kind of posts. I don't think the age of the models particularly affects my choices, or at least not consciously.