Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

In answer to your recent post @CrkdLttrCrkdLttr I enjoy the menswear but not the women. I think I prefer something slightly more form fitting.

I can appreciate the craftsmanship though and it's a good colour pallette.

It's very early Margiela in a way isn't it, that feel of instead of draping fabric on a mannequin they used clothes from the flea market, a snip here, a tear there, quick run under the sewing machine to see how that would look, adding, subtracting, repeat. The end result less interesting than the process.

I suspect you'll really like Jan Jan van Essche (not the best UI site design). It doesn't come across as strongly in pictures but it has that rough hewn quality in the materiality (beautiful Japanese fabrics made by craftsmen) that's similar in feel. You'll probably also like everything in Atelier Solarshop in Antwerp that stocks JJE and similar brands with that open ended spirit.

Oh, and the models from CF are wearing my Asics shoes in a different colour way. I still find it hilarious that my old battered running shoes are the it shoe among this crowd.

I appreciate good design but £400 for a drawstring bag is someone taking the serious piss.

Back to the original OP, what strikes me on some of these sites is that they use 18 year old models for clothes that I would think would look best on those in their middle age (ie me) and older. They really don't look very good on very young models - sort of like someone playing dress up. It is weird that clothing companies persist.

Has anyone tried Sunspel?

Sunspel

Not as pricey as MH. It's a brand I discovered on S&B many moons ago. I don't own any of their clothing but I do like the simplicity of their designs.

The end result less interesting than the process.

Hah! You may have hit the nail on the head there. I’ve never quite articulated it before, but yes - I probably do want to wear the process of creating a garment. Hmm …

I’ll need to look at the JJvE things a little longer … First impression, it’s a bit Toogood, no? (Let us not speak of the frankly ridiculous amount I paid in the sale, for some knitted gloves from them - only because they went with the beanie I’d bought two years before. Honestly that place sees me coming a thousand miles off … ) I may want a teeny bit more humour, or at least less seriousness, in my clothes. Pretty colours, a flash of silver leather …

Atelier Solarshop is cute. Like a much cooler Native & Co. Think I may have found the perfect ceramic gift for a sibling there - so thank you, again.

I can appreciate the craftsmanship though and it's a good colour pallette.

Just look at these details, @Calphurnia88

I have couple of things from Sunspel via eBay and the quality is excellent @Lykia

Yes, the Belgians can be very very serious (creatives also always tend to be the son or daughter of a pastor and never quite shake off that protestant dourness), Walter van Beirendonck is the rare exception.

The interesting thing for me with JJvE is that it doesn't translate much its transitional aura into photography. Most designers seem to design exclusively for how things photograph these days. How it looks and moves in RL seems immaterial to many and that reflects a lot on how things fit, with JJvE it's the opposite, the clothes adapt to the wearer and will look very different from one person to the next. Cos used to be like that in the early days, it took a long time for that not to be confusing to people and then they decided to go a lot more conventional and became less interesting (to me).

We had a whole Sunspel chat on here previously, apparently they make stuff for MH but there was also a bad era when they moved production from the UK to Turkey (I think) and it was no longer good. Now they're made in Portugal and some in the UK and it's good again, especially the premium versions whose name escapes me right now.

Just to say, I saved all the links and addresses - of at least 5 shops that have a London base, and I plan to go regularly for inspiration. I do have a tendency of getting stuck and then literally stalking one brand across all platforms. Then end up with inordinate amount of stuff from the same brand. My last obsession is Studio Nicholson, and I DID NOT buy her culottes in the summer as I deemed that they fit weirdly around the crotch. And what! I just bought them on vinted anyway! I should have just walked around the physical shops to deal with the February boredom and fatigue and longing for the summer!

I see what you mean about online shopping; it makes things much easier. I find it hard that shop assistants in the end pressure you into buying something and rarely give you good feedback (my experience in London anyway; the judgeyness too - what, I just ran away from my toddler, what do you want from me I want to tell them). There is a (Japanese I think) person working in the Studio Nicholson store in Soho who is an exception to this rule; she is amazing.
But for me the problem of online shopping is my height, at nearly 6 feet I fit runway clothes best ( :) when it's not size 6) and this is also the reason for getting stuck with brands that cater to the tall. Studio Nicholson is amazing for me. I never tried CDG on or Issey Miake or Johji Yamamoto though. Things that are made for an average height of 172 are not good for me (which could still be too tall for some!) Will be glad to hear and share brands that do tall trousers - and coats

I also found this labstorelondon.com

‘Like early Cos’ is very persuasive! Their descent into relative mediocrity is a bit saddening given how brilliantly they began.

@Lykia I bought the odd thing from Sunspel when they were sold in my local Selfridges, and I’ve admired the Edie Campbell selection. But I tend to prefer to spend on stand out items and aggressively economise on basics - so I’m not their ideal customer. They seem to get a lot of positive affirmation from fashion-y people - I don’t have a clear picture in my mind of who the brand want to sell to, and whether that accords with who actually buys. What’s your impression?

@microbius , the average height for a woman in the UK is 162.4 cm. Designers might be using a standard height of 172 cm, though.

Enjoying this conversation so much (and @CrkdLttrCrkdLttr , I am intrigued by your delight in discovering your prey, even if you don't take it down and drag it home with you).
This conversation reminds me of a sweetly sad observation that I made to myself a few years ago, and probably many others have shared - I buy clothes for a @popularinthe80s who doesn't exist beyond my imagination. That woman is fierce and strong and swirls her coat in cold winds.

I buy clothes for a @popularinthe80s who doesn't exist beyond my imagination.

I can TOTALLY relate to this.

Thank you for reminding me about labstore, @microbius .

Isn’t this the prettiest thing?

Thank you for your comments on Sunspel. I might indulge in the sales.

I've loved reading your posts even if I don't have anything to contribute. Loved the CF link

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr I don't love the coat and it's not something that would suit me however, it is very pretty and delicate.

Anyone who chooses or even just wears clothes has something to contribute! Aren’t we all persuaded or influenced to buy something by remote publicity or reputation, or word of mouth or simply seeing someone else wearing a thing?

(That sounds preachy - but being on MN really piques my curiosity about how other people come to choose their clothes, and how brands intervene to shape our choices.)

It would be perfect with these dresses

www.renlisu.com/products/alice-dress

www.renlisu.com/products/julia-dress

www.renlisu.com/collections/dresses-1?page=2

www.renlisu.com/products/maude-dress

labstorelondon.com/collections/women/products/atentativeatelier-scarlet-dress

labstorelondon.com/collections/women/products/a-tentative-atelier-leonora-dress

These are just as beautiful.

Am loving this thread. It's reminding me what a joy clothes can be. I want to have fun putting outfits together again - that feeling when you find something so right for you that you twirl in the mirror and hold your head high when you walk down the street. And that outfit not necessarily even being traditionally flattering just something you love.

The original point about marketing is interesting. If I saw fairly bog standard clothes modelled on someone just like me ie a fairly average in every sense of the word 40 something, it probably wouldn't inspire me to buy them. But when I see things styled with attitude on interesting, beautiful people my age or older it makes me think - well they are midlife and beyond and still having fun with fashion and style, maybe I could be a bit more daring. I noticed Whistles using some older models recently who I would definitely aspire to look like.

I think the models for Raey are hilarious!

I'm the target demographic for MH (early 50s) but can't afford it. I only know one person that buys it. Actually I could afford it if I changed my mindset and just bought 2 or 3 new things a season. But I don't feel that I have the basic wardrobe to do that, so end up buying a bunch of things from Cos instead.

I would love to be dressed in MH, SN and Bella Freud for eg - I just need to stop buying cheaper clothes.

I LOVE that Labstore coat, and all those Victoriana dresses that NatashaDancing posted. Oh to have bottomless pits of money! And to be young and thin.