Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

I've not read the Guardian article properly but I've marked it down already for the heading - the last thing we need is yet another warning about getting it wrong. And skimming the rest, it doesn't seem to get any more inspiring than: 'add a scarf for interest.... try a graphic print or a suit with a T shirt...buy less buy better....' Is that seriously the best we can hope for? Admittedly I'm nearer 70 than 50 so maybe I take a more urgent approach to getting dressed than the writer.

Thanks for the MH superfans link Crkd, I'll read that next!

Viv Groskrop did used to be on here back in the day, so I suspect she is still (given that I am...)

I really enjoyed the MH superfans article. I bought my first pair of MH trousers from the N London boutique referred to in that article!

I contributed way up thread, but overall enjoyed this thread. I particularly like the workwear link posted pretty early on.

My problem is I haven't yet (at 52) found my style. I want to suit Toast and MH but I don't feel that I do. I need fitted clothes really as I have a long slim torso and good shoulders. I did succumb to a Wyse London dress in Lockdown and I always get compliments when I wear it. But generally I can't wear flouncy or frilly things. In my head I'm Patti Smith or Chrissie Hynde or Emmanuelle Alt and I'd love to find clothes that fit that aesthetic.

(I actually do like Raey despite their moody models).

But honestly - why do you need to ‘find your style’? What particular merit exists in that? Maybe your eulogy will use words like ‘exploration’, ‘experimentation’, ‘adventure’, ‘quest’ ‘constant renewal’ - why would that be a bad thing? Far as I can see, unless one is a global superstar with a retinue of stylists, ‘having a style’ generally means ‘only shops at Chanel’ or ‘never veers from Hobbs’.

There’s the most gorgeous ‘Spring knitwear’ article in the New York Times. Modelled on mere boys (and a baby) - but I need the Hermès sunrise sweater so badly …

Do you mean non-flouncy

like this?

Or

like this

Or maybe more Petar Petrov? (Photo)

Yes I do. They're both lovely

Actually I don't need to find my style, I probably know it. And I'm happy not having a style as such, and just buying things I love- I don't feel that I have to conform to anything. But I do keep making mistakes when I buy things - and I want to stop doing that. There's lots around that doesn't suit me at the moment - baggy, or flouncy stuff and maybe I just need to accept that.

One thing I was thinking about after reading this thread is that I've actually become less interested in/worried about comfort as I've gotten older. Other than sports/exercise/hiking/dog walking, I'm more likely to think, sod comfort, than I was in the years when I was either working long days or chasing after small children with grubby fingers. These days I'm much more about how does it look, how does it make me feel than I am about how does it feel.

Note- I'm not talking about tottering down the south bank in six-inch stilettos, but I would choose Ganni over Salt-Water sandals for a strolling afternoon that included lunch and a gallery.

Does that resonate with anyone else?

Agree @throwawayaway1 I've had more than enough of the lounge wear, athleisure etc. trends. Sure, I'll wear a practical raincoat if it's chucking it down and I'm going for a long walk, and you'll prize comfortable stompy boots from my cold, dead feet. But I'm no longer defaulting to sensible.

I'm not someone whose ever placed that much emphasis on physical comfort (and I'm kind of allergic to the whole comfort vs male gaze juxtaposition as if they're mutually exclusive) but I do care more about what clothes do for me iykwim.

For example, a Haider Ackermann jacket does something in the way it's designed and where the arm scyes sit higher and sleeves taper down just that bit sharper that makes me stand up straighter and gives me a certain stride. There's an easy comfort in Ann Demeulemeester's clothes for me that makes me feel slinky and glide about without a care without it necessarily being particularly practical or comfortable. A bog standard perfectly comfortable Uniqlo item just feels a bit okay in contrast, it's noticeable in its design to be somewhat standardised. Nothing wrong with it but it's not doing anything exciting for me either but it kind of feels anonymous, I suppose? And sometimes that feels good too.

As I mentioned previously, my mood feeds into what I wear so I suppose they match up with how certain clothes make me feel or provide it when I don't feel it but I could use some of it. Obviously some pragmatism has to be taken into consideration too, my wardrobe would probably be very different if I got chauffeured everywhere.

WRT mistakes, I do think there's a lot of angst about it and I do wonder how much of it is warranted. If I go to a disappointing restaurant or exhibition I don't berate myself for the mistake of going there. I guess because it's on our body and a communication of sorts we don't want to give off the wrong impression about ourselves but as my mother used to say in my teenage years, no one will ever care about what you wear as much as you do. People are really not that observant, not enough to notice one misstep anyhow.

Yes, I get the Ganni sandals thing. I was looking at photos of Sophia Coppola this morning... so simple, sandals, loose flowing jeans and a beautifully constructed white cotton shirt.
#goals

My comfort level is am I comfortable in it. A pair of shoes might feel like slippers but if they look ugly, then I won't be comfortable in them. Same goes for clothes with no pockets or that just bother me in some way.

I might be comfortable in a pair of jogging trousers at home, but would not be comfortable wearing them outside, or if there were visitors. Ripped knees would not be comfortable anywhere, not even if the label said luxury.

Agreed - it doesn't matter how physically comfortable clothing might be, if I think it's ugly I will be uncomfortable.

Yes, but I'd add the 'Does it work for me?' too.
An example might be a pair of jeans that fit right and look great but have those little pockets that mean the contents don't stay in them. I have a pair and if I nipped out in the car, my wallet and house keys will have escaped under the car seat as soon as I've sat down.
They don't work for me.

I probably look better in shortish tops but I hate having my back not tucked in.
I won't wear open or edge-to-edge jackets, cardigans or coats. Culottes/split skirts (ok, probably not stylish but I like the ones that look like flippy skirts) that do up with a zip and button are a pita when I need the loo, and dresses and skirts that ride up when I sit down are also irritating.

I have clothes which objectively are not comfortable. 2 Mackintoshs , as in real made in Scotland rubberised cotton macs. One is navy and straight, narrow fitting, very smart, the other is classic beige , loose fitting and oversized. They're both quite stiff and heavy.

Also a Cabbages and Roses floor length, lined, navy cotton drill cotton coat. It has yards and yards of material and is also very heavy.

But their sheer elegance and the swishing around feeling fabulous wearing them factor subjectively makes them "comfortable"

Towards the end of the ‘If Monty Don Were a Woman’ thread done supremely helpful poster compiled a list of all the links posted therein.

We could probably do with a similar list from this thread - but I lack the time and concentration to do it …

Ha, I'm not that helpful but when I'm home and behind my computer I can check if it's something Chatgtp can do.

I’ve loved reading this thread. Lots of brands I’ve never heard of and a lot of comments I agree with. I’ll be checking back to find the workwear site again when I need a new beret in autumn.

It’s such a massive shame in order to get well made, good quality clothes you need to spend a fortune when the high street used to have so much on offer. Perhaps in a few years it’ll have a reprisal after everyone gets sick of Primark and the rest of the low end.

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr will you open a MkII iteration of this thread? 💐
It feels cheeky to ask, as I have loitered more than contributing, but it has been intellectually stimulating.
My other long-term favourite thread here is the Royal Style one, started many years ago by QueenoftheAndals.
I like a space that is not judgy or sinking to the level of "lets criticise everyone and their choices".

Sorry, ChatGPT is a bust as it can't access the internet, can only recognise a link in a text if it's the full address and when I paste in a page worth of a 100 posts to at least gather those it refuses to do it because the text is too long. Someone else is going to have to martyr themselves for this cause.

Alright, let's see if this works - should be the full scrape from the thread, apologies for any typos:

agnes b: www.agnesb.co.uk
AvAvAv: avavav.com/
Atelier Solarshop: www.ateliersolarshop.be/
Aspiga: www.aspiga.com/
Ann Demeulemeester: uk.anndemeulemeester.com/collections/clothing-women
& daughter: www.and-daughter.com/
Aethel: www.aethel.com/
Allude: www.net-a-porter.com/en-gb/shop/designer/allude
Anna Mason: annamasonlondon.co.uk/

Batsheva: batsheva.com
Bucuaslan: burcuaslan.shop/collections/couture
Beaumont Organic: www.beaumontorganic.com/
Begg: www.beggxco.com/
Bassal Store: bassal.store/
Becksöndergaard: becksondergaard.com/
Belize: www.belizeofficiel.com/

Comptoir des Cotonniers: www.comptoirdescotonniers.com
Camiel Fortgens: camielfortgens.com/collections/ss23/?amp=1
Colourful Standard: colorfulstandard.com/en-gb
Community Clothing: communityclothing.co.uk/
Cordera: cordera.es/
Can Pep Rey: canpeprey.com/en-gb
Carrier Company: www.carriercompany.co.uk/collections/womens
Cabbages and Roses: www.cabbagesandroses.com/
Cornelia James: www.corneliajames.com/
Cossac: cossac.co/collections/baby
Cumo: www.cumolondon.com

Day Dress: daydress.co.uk/collections/the-dresses
Dries van Noten: www.driesvannoten.com/en-gb
DSML: shop.doverstreetmarket.com/
deToujours: www.detoujours.com/

Essentiel Antwerp: www.essentiel-antwerp.com/uk
Envoy of Belfast: envoyofbelfast.com/
egg: www.eggtrading.com/
Eribe: www.eribe.com/
Eponine: eponinelondon.com/

La Fetiche: www.lafetiche.com/shop/larry
Francli: www.francli.co.uk/the-oddments-collection

Gerry Weber: www.gerryweber.com/en-eu
Gentlewench: www.gentlewench.com/new-aw20/
Gembalies: gembalies.com/
Gimaguas: gimaguas.com/

High: www.high-everydaycouture.com
Horror Vacui: horror-vacui.com/
Handworked Clothing: thehandworkedshop.com/
The Hour: thehourlondon.com/

Isabel Marant: www.isabelmarant.com/gb
Issey Miyake: www.isseymiyake.com/#section0

Justine Tabak: www.justinetabak.co.uk/
joseph: www.joseph-fashion.com/en-gb/home
Jan Jan van Essche: www.janjanvanessche.com/
Joseph Cheaney: www.cheaney.co.uk/

Kinzzza: www.etsy.com/uk/shop/Kinzzza
Klements: klements.co.uk/
Kate Barton: www.katebarton.co.uk/

Loro Piana: uk.loropiana.com/en
Lagami: www.lagami.com
Lauren Manoogian: laurenmanoogian.com
LN-CC: www.ln-cc.com/en/
La Garconne: lagarconne.com/
Labstore London: labstorelondon.com/
Loreak Mendian: www.loreakmendian.com/es/
Lanx Shoes: lanxshoes.com/
LouLou: louloustudio.fr/

Margaret Howell: www.margarethowell.co.uk/
Max Mara: www.maxmara.com
Moncler: www.moncler.com/en-gb
Machine-A: www.machine-a.com/collections/ss23-collections
Maison Margiela www.maisonmargiela.com/wx/
Muji: www.muji.eu/uk/women/women-clothing
Meadows: meadows-store.com/collections/dresses
Massimo Alba: www.massimoalba.com
M A D Kollection: www.madkollection.com/
Merchant & Mills: merchantandmills.com/
Macculloch & Wallis: www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/

Nackiye: nackiye.com/
Neous: www.neous.co.uk/
NRBY: nrbyclothing.com/
Nancy Mac: www.nancymac.co.uk/
Nodaleto: nodaleto.com/en-gb/collections/view-all
NavyGrey: navygrey.co/

Opinioneers: opioneers.co.uk/shop
Olsen: www.olsenfashion.com/
Oska Ischiko: gb.oska.com/

PlusMinus: plusminusfashion.com
Plumo: www.plumo.com/
Phoebe English: phoebeenglish.com/
Palava: palava.co/
Poetry: www.poetryfashion.co.uk/
Paloma Wool: palomawool.com/
Paula Rowan: www.paularowan.co.uk/
Peruvian Connection: www.peruvianconnection.co.uk/

Ren Lisu: www.renlisu.com
Rundholz: arabella.uk.com/collections/the-full-rundholz-collection-aw19
Raey: www.matchesfashion.com/womens/designers/raey
RainSisters: rainsisters.com/en-gb
Rendez-Vous: www.rendez-vous-store.com/

Sofie d'Hoore: www.sofiedhoore.be/
Studio Nicholson: www.studionicholson.com/
Salim Azzam: salimazzam.com/
SSense: www.ssense.com/en-gb/men/sale
Saywood Studio: saywoodstudio.co.uk/
Sunspel: www.sunspel.com/collections/womens-new-in
Sahara London: saharalondon.com/
Stable of Ireland: www.stableofireland.com/
Sirene: www.sirene-boutique.com/
Solace: www.solacelondon.com/
Saloni: saloniworld.com/
Sika: www.sikadesigns.co.uk/

Tracey Neuls: traceyneuls.com/
Too Good: t-o-o-g-o-o-d.com/
Thierry Rabotin: www.thierryrabotin.shop/
Tribeca: www.tribecabrighton.com/collections/new-in

Una Burke: www.unaburke.com/
UJ-NG: uj-ng.com/

The Vampire’s Wife: thevampireswife.com
Voriagh: www.voriagh.com/
Ven: www.ven-store.com/

Wrap London: www.wraplondon.co.uk/

Y.A.S.:www.y-a-s.com/
Yacco Maricard: www.yaccomaricard.com
Young British Designers: www.youngbritishdesigners.com/

Zeus & Dione: zeusndione.com/

You're a saint if you did that manually Haribo (if you didn't do it manually please teach me how).

Almada Label, CO, Toteme, Johnstons of Elgin, Oyuna, and Inis Meain seems to have been missed from my memory of things I mentioned (or saw mentioned) on here and I'll add a few others:

Almada Label: https://almadalabel.com/
Ami Paris: https://www.amiparis.com/

Bite Studios : https://bitestudios.com/ (sustainable luxury ££££)
Bellerose: https://www.bellerose.be/

CO: https://co-collections.com/

Dusan: https://dusan.info/ (beautiful Italian fabrics and unique finishes, gets close to Loro Piana in fabric obsessiveness)

École de Curiosités: https://www.ecoledecuriosites.com/

Inis Meáin: https://inismeain.ie/

Johnstons of Elgin: https://www.johnstonsofelgin.com/eu/

Lemaire: https://eu.lemaire.fr/
Le Mont St Michel: https://lemontsaintmichel.fr/en/ (premium French basics they also do workwear and they also do it for children, child labour shouldn't look that adorable 😶).

Monique van Heist: https://www.moniquevanheist.com/

Oyuna: https://oyuna.com/

Pas de Calais: http://www.pasdecalais.jp/en/
(not mobile friendly, several European/UK based shops sell them though)

Soeur: https://www.soeur.fr/
Six Soeurs: https://en.sixsoeurs.fr/ (six sisters, made in Paris)

Toteme: https://int.toteme-studio.com/

Ulla Johnson: https://ullajohnson.com/ (if you always liked the Isabel Marant vibe but haven't really been feeling her collections for the past few years).

There's probably many more...

You are both stars ! Thank you

Thanks for the rest @botemp! (and yes, did it manually - had a pretty rubbish past week so thoughts I'd actually do something productive and useful this evening 😓)

sorry to hear you had a rubbish weak Haribo. You've been very productive indeed, kudos and many thanks. I hope next week treats you kinder.

La Collection, The Elder Statesman, and Colville has also gone missing too (sorry, memory of an elephant, I'll stop now) and I've thought of others:

Colville: https://colvilleofficial.com/

La Collection : https://www.lacollection.be/

Katherine Hamnett: https://katharinehamnett.com/

Smallable (multi-brand women's and children's): https://www.smallable.com/en

The Elder Statesman: https://elder-statesman.com/

Universal Works (men's technically): https://universalworks.co.uk/

I've really enjoyed this thread too, not only for the links to retailers and designers I hadn't discovered but also for the thought-provoking observations about clothes and what they mean to and say about us. It's given me lots to think about and clarified some of my own thoughts and ideas - thank you.

Someone mentioned men's clothes a few pages upthread: there's a chap on instagram who has a fascinating knowledge of and passion for vintage menswear who is worth a follow - @these(underscore)rough(underscore) notes (sorry, am on my phone and struggling with formatting - underscores are these things _ !) I enjoy his detailed insights into heritage British manufacturers, and have really liked finding the same wealth of knowledge on this thread.