Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

I’d love to see a fashion and style topic- great idea! And I’d love to dress like a pop star in Batsheva..
I don’t check in on S&B much because a lot of it is about shopping for clothes )which can be useful at times) but as people are saying, is just the tip of an interesting iceberg when it comes to discussion. Worth a thread in site stuff?

There's been a discussion previously on site stuff about separating style and beauty and overwhelmingly regular posters of S&B did not want it separated. I don't really think that would solve anything, it's not like we're opposing factions, where the style faction goes off to disturb anyone asking about Botox why they would put poison in their face and the beauty people then, in return, barge in with their insistance that a supermarket jumper is just as good. I think MN just has a larger issue with moderation and streamlining discussion, imo they really need to update their idea of what a troll is, as it's somewhat out of date IMO.

I don't honestly know how brands go about determining demographics. I remember watching an interview with the designer (or one of) of Palmer Harding and he didn't really have a concrete idea about who bought his clothes. He just looked at the other brands that shops would hang their clothes beside for an idea.

I think for some it may very well be that they discover along the way who their demographic is. I doubt Margaret Howell set out to cultivate an Asian audience, it was probably just really popular with Asian buyers and then they targeted that demand. I remember being quite surprised that Dolce and Gabanna is really popular in the Middle East, I don't know if they still do them, but they always had a special show there pre-covid and made things like abayas that are only available there.

Just marking my place. I've not got time to read it properly let alone post but I've seen the words 'Margaret Howell' and 'facile' so it sounds like my kind of thread.

Sorry, it was me with the facile...
For some reason I completely misinterpreted the thread last night. Blame a bad day & a large gin or two.
And I love the Laura Ashley Batsheva dress.

As regards the MH photo that prompted this thread - I have been … annoyed, sometimes, by MH having suddenly ‘discovered’ inclusivity - but not even thinking of improving the colour palettes of their clothes to better suit the models or the proposed ‘new’ demographic. I could never wear most of those sludgy colours - so don’t feel ‘included’, (even though I’m very much ‘their’ shopper. And I’m always desperately sorry for the models forced into quite staggeringly unflattering clothes.)

(Toast is even more guilty of this - but I gave up on them years ago when they seemed to employ an only partly completed AI to design the clothes.)

Apologies, careless typing above. Ignore first ( and )!

Please don't judge my post too harshly, as I am still formulating my ideas and am pre-caffeine. I feel I fall between two wardrobes. I love the clothes on this thread, and the perspective that style can be a serious business. But my monthly clothes budget is 100 max.
Yes, I could, and probably ought (for ecological, ethical and other reasons) buy just a couple of beautiful things a year. But that doesn't satisfy the playful delight I have in collecting clothes. It requires a degree of self discipline I am still working towards. Plus I'm too short for many of these beautiful pieces
I guess I am peering into your wardrobe but still retreating to my Zara/H&M/Hobbs petite (some lovely things but mostly a little too conservative for my tastes)/eBay Cos and Me and Em when I spot a rare prey and pounce.

Just to be clear when I complain about supermarket clothes posters popping in with 'what's good enough for me should be good enough for you', it's not because I think everyone should be buying £350 jumpers. I hate when posters declare on here that if you can't afford quality stuff you should just buy in charity shops. Charity shops are fun when it's a choice. I have a choice not to shop in places like Primark and Shein and when you have that choice, yeah for several reasons it doesn't feel like a good choice to shop there. But if that's your budget, that balance is just different and you don't need my moral outrage to go with that.

Diversity and fashion well that's a whole other thread worth of discussion OP but if there ever was a good use for the word facile...

I like generally like the clothes in the links on this thread, but not all of them are to my taste.

Good basics are stylish, and you can be stylish on a budget.

I've not liked much on the Toast site for years, a lot of it is nice, but not different enough from what I already have. I've only seen Shein in charity shops and it's not for me.

Looking through my posts I realise I haven’t really made my own position clear. I’m at the tail end of middle age - envying those of my peers who made better life decisions and can retire into luxury. I’ve followed various professions, and lived in capital cities, on farms, and in cottages surrounded by fields. I’ve read Vogue since my early teens. I love and understand clothes (fortunate heritage) and am on an eternal quest for outstanding quality and gobsmacking design. As a student I haunted vintage shops, then lived a few Ferragamo / Jil Sander years in the City. I have no moral problem with spending money on clothes. I also love a bargain.

I will never be as stylish as my mother - looking like her would be an achievement, not something to dread. So I despair when I read posts that take it for granted that getting older means you stop dressing to look fabulous.

And until I found MN I had no idea that so many women do not enjoy getting dressed, never shop beyond their High St / shopping mall and genuinely believe all fashion is ridiculous frivolity.

Margaret Howell was formerly at Paul Smith, another quintessentially British designer who is beloved by the Asian market. Like Studio Nicholson, MH's demographic are those whom are more interested in forever style and sustainability - it's about shared values rather than a specific socio-economic group. At least this is what an acquaintance (who used to work with MH) told me. But of course, it's easy to have uphold values and spend money on clothes if one has the money to do so.

Charity shops are fun when it's a choice. I have a choice not to shop in places like Primark and Shein and when you have that choice, yeah for several reasons it doesn't feel like a good choice to shop there. But if that's your budget, that balance is just different and you don't need my moral outrage to go with that.
I agree with this. I enjoyed thrifting and altering garments, but that's my choice. I don't want to buy fast fashion where possible, and can't afford some of the nice expensive pieces I've seen in this board.

I share your frustration when I'm looking for a certain item for months thrifting, which doesn't bother me, and people tell me to order from Shein. I don't want to. If others do that's up to them and I won't give them an ethics lecture, but I wish they'd stop telling me buying fast fashion solves the problem.

I’ve never thought of MH as mostly worn by the over-50s! I’m early 30s and absolutely love their knitwear. I have never seen anyone over 50 when I’ve been in either their flagship store or their outlet store in Central London. It’s usually creative-looking 28-45 year-olds (and me, as far from creative as you can get).

What a sneering thread.

Sneering at whom?

I love reading about different brands on here, out of my price range but still love wearing them vicariously through you all!

I'm not in the Margaret Howell price range, but I love fashion and follow as well as I can. It is depressing when you seem to have Vogue at one end suggesting designers who are so far out of my price range that it feels pointless to follow them, and at the other it's all high street Zara/Mango/Cos. If anyone knows of anyone in that middle spot (ie, a dress costs approx £100-150) but is independent/not a chain, I'd be really grateful for any suggestions. I also hate sludgy colours or pale wishy washy ones, have no problem with spending money on clothes and am very slowly trying to make some of my own clothes.

I'm currently lusting over the Essentiel Antwerp website, which is again slightly too expensive.

Wait, The Vampires Wife is not day wear? I’ve been doing that wrong then. (Swishes cape, to one side, in order the type better.)

Yes, brands need to realise who they are selling to, and a mix of models what be more interesting. Honestly, though I’m far from 20 but it’s a constant surprise that I’m not as young as I think I am. Seeing people my own age wouldn’t be a selling point for me. That’s on me though, but I suspect I’m not alone.

Non high street clothes are not favoured on MN. See the comment above.

As for a designer handbag, obviously a bench is a better buy.

I’d love for the conversation to be more diverse though. Especially as I’m determined to buy less but better.

Essential Antwerp, great designs, but too expensive for polyester! This happens a lot too. It’s very dispiriting.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar , have you ever gone shopping for dress fabric? I used to do so occasionally with my mother (between the 80s and the noughties mostly) in places like Laura Ashley, John Lewis and Liberty, and was astonished at how expensive decent fabric can be.

Add in the sewing machine, the other sewing tools, the knowledge, (which means time), the labour, the design, the fuel and water bills, insurance, then add up what it would cost you to make a Good Dress. Then imagine yourself as a small independent business, add in a marketing budget, and mark up the price to a level that produces enough profit to make the whole enterprise worthwhile.

Could you do it easily for £100?

That’s why it might, possibly, be unreasonable to want your clothes from ‘not a chain’ (with all their economies of scale) but at a chain price!

I could never wear most of those sludgy colours

Those colours are awful aren't they.

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr It's also getting more difficult to buy decent quality dressmaking fabric now.

In addition to womenswear I'm in some children's sewing groups and some of the makers there share some awful tales about prospective customers challenging their prices. They seem to want hand made, OTEX certified organic cotton, make in the UK, quick turn around, sometimes with customisation and then get annoyed when it costs more than Tesco. It doesn't help when some hobby sewers post that they'll make an organic cotton baby romper for £5 on flog it Fridays either.

I've worked out that it's cheaper for me to learn how to make some of the items I'd like than to buy through some of the brands I've seen on here, but the trade off is it's slower and it takes a lot of time to learn the skills. I'm a long way off making my perfect wool coat.

I love the colours MH uses. I don't do bright colours and moss green, black, navy, stone etc are the colours I wear every day. The quality is excellent and gets better with age.