Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

[Floisme]

Sorry I posted that without refreshing the page - I will now catch up properly before I post again!

[LolaSmiles]

Thank you for the fabric suggestions everyone, and sorry for not tagging you individually.

Merchant and Mills has nearly taken a sizable amount of money off me, but I've decided I've got the motivation now to make a toile or two.

[MerryChristmasToYou]

@Pigtailsandall , they're not really my aesthetic either, but they're decent quality and the cut is usually good, and you might be lucky with them. I'd add Cos, Arket and Banana Republic to the list. My sister likes And Other Stories and Monsoon, but the cut doesn't suit my body shape. Episode used to be quite good for office clothes.

The french brands I listed are my aesthetic, but only within my budget second hand. joseph, Yacco Marocain (spelling?) and Rundholz might be worth a look too.

I love it when I walk into a shop and like lots of things.

[Pigtailsandall]

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr I think maybe y6took my statement a little out of context. I didn't say tailoring was frivolous, I said my frivolity budget is about £150 a month which I guess is about 5% of my net income, and includes clothes and beauty purchases. At this stage of my life, I need to prioritize mortgage, child and savings - I work in academia which means I'm on constant fixed-term contracts and could easily have an unemployed spell, so having 6 months' worth of salary in the bank is essential. So I pay what I can for clothes whilst still trying to have fun with what I have

@botemp thank you for these promising links. I love the idea of discovering new designers and going to outlets and sample sales, but the busy truth of my life is that I have limited time to research every garment and often scurry back to COS and Uniqlo which are "good enough" and which usually have something I like. One day, though.

[ThighMistress]

@Floisme I hear you, but when I was younger it did put me off if someone older wore something… shallow, but I’m sure nearly everyone is the same. Actually, even now: someone said to me, “My mil has your coat” and I was, “Er, great.”

I suppose “old” is at least ten years older than we imagine ourselves to be. I was glancing through one of those “Great Ideas” catalogues that are inside the Sunday papers and noticed the number of youthful, attractive people modelling hearing amplifiers, arthritis bangles and rise-out-the-bath devices.

[Floisme]

I know Thigh - that was the point I was trying to make really. I get why brands don't take the risk, annoying as it is.

I sympathise Pigtailsandall. It takes time and you're busy. Part of the reason I gave up buying second hand in the late 90s was I had a baby and a job, and then when my child grew up, elderly parents. (To be fair, the other reason was they'd rebranded it 'vintage' plus Kate Moss had come along and us mortals were priced out of the market.) I only went back to it about 5 years ago when I no longer had caring responsibilities and, while it's a very different world now, it's just as time consuming.

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

@Floisme I was thinking this morning about what someone else (can’t find your name, sorry!) said above about being put off by seeing models of her own age. It’s weird! I’m always thrilled to see fearsome grown up women wearing proper clothes. But obviously the styling and attitude of the photographs has to tell the right story. I don’t follow blogs and rarely go near Insta now, but still, a fair proportion of the gazillion photos on my phone are for purposes of inspiration. Just wish there were more on shop websites, selling actual clothes.

Random selection below: Raey at Matches, Zara last year (this blouse was so disappointing in real life), YAS - which I’d never heard until yesterday, @botemp , someone ridiculously elegant of my mother’s generation, and just one film star, because 😍.

[ThighMistress]

Also vintage is not really the friend of the more mature. Funky suddenly looks more bag lady. I was talking on another thread that my all black clothes, especially drapey ones, are beginning to give off wicked witch vibes. 🙁

[botemp]

By MN standards I'm "young", older models don't put me off anything but and "old" aesthetic does. Someone mentioned Gerry Weber above to someone in their early forties and that did make me pull a face, that definitely feels old in the aesthetic sense to me but people in their forties is probably where their target demographic starts. In contrast while I love the whole Lauren Manoogian aesthetic, reality is a silver haired woman with a post menopausal body is just going to look way cooler in it than me. Similarly I often visit the Dries van Noten sample sale in Antwerp and it's a communal changing room, the older woman outdress the younger ones and then some, it's a good humbling experience.

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

@Pigtailsandall - I was joking!

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Very sorry the million words I expended didn’t make that apparent!

[Floisme]

Oh I have to disagree with you about vintage ThighMistress! I guess it depends on what era / kind of clothing you're thinking about but a 1940s/50s/60s jacket or coat is wonderful for ageing bodies. They're just getting harder and harder to find, for obvious reasons. I'm very lucky in that I still own a few.

[Calphurnia88]

Interesting discussion re MH.

I've only recently discovered her and currently coveting a pinafore dress on ebay. I'm 35.

I find the high street (or online equivalent) very tricky to navigate at my age. I tend to trawl resale websites for French brands instead.

[Pigtailsandall]

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr ok phew! I'm not always used to MN being a nice place :)

I'm mostly enjoying fashion by observing it nowadays but as soon as my DC is older and no longer wants to be seen dead with me on the weekends I shall start trawling second-hand shops, outlets and sample sales

..if second hand shops still exist at that point 😬

[MerryChristmasToYou]

@botemp , I agree, and would put Betty Barclay in that bracket too, but they might be good for one or two pieces. I tend to think along the lines of 'I want a blah, and it needs to be a certain sort of fabric of a certain cut and colour' so it doesn't really matter what the label is.

I think we can be a bit blinkered by thinking things like 'Laura Ashley is all spriggy florals and flounces, Toast is all amish smocks, M&S is frumpy, Topshop is for teenagers' and the like.

[botemp]

I don't disagree Merry, the label shouldn't determine whether you buy something or not. But some brands do have something about the way they cut clothes and/or put colours and pattern together that just translates in everything they make as feeling really out of synch.

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

'I want a blah, and it needs to be a certain sort of fabric of a certain cut and colour'

This is something I (almost) never say!

Granted, at one time I needed a professional wardrobe, so spent happy hours in Wardrobe or Browns trying on suits, and ambled along Jermyn St for sea island cotton shirts <sighs> but apart from that and “I must buy some more pyjamas” I much prefer to just ramble and wait for something to make me fall in love with it. And I do generally find something, whether it’s TK Maxx or some obscure Swiss tailor that tortures me with painful desire.

Again this has caused small disagreements on MN - when someone is foolhardy enough to request links to some specific, long out of fashion and probably dreadfully unflattering garment. I do sometimes suggest it might be better to go into a contemporary shop / website and see what they have. Then they get cross: “I know what I like - I’m much too old to bother with fashion , that’s for young people, and rappers - How dare you question my taste? … Blah di blah …” It’s a shame because I have an irrepressible need to be useful …

Do you always start by knowing what you’re looking for, @MerryChristmasToYou ? How does that accommodate a thing you might never have thought of owning, which a designer presents to you as an entirely new idea? Would you reject it or embrace the experiment?

[MerryChristmasToYou]

@botemp, I agree.
There are brands loved on H&B that I just think 'No thanks' about. Me&Em, Hush, Baukjen, Wyse, Run & Fly etc.

I tend to buy clothes from charity shops, and the brands I buy tend to be random. If I'm searching on-line, the brands are specific. On-line might be MHL, cs might be MHL-ish.

[botemp]

I'm always surprised by the love of Superdry on here. I'm not in the UK so haven't seen any of it in many years and I know it's changed but in my mind it's still that Ed Hardie-esque pretend Japanese beer brand for balding men 🙈

[Floisme]

Speaking of looking at old labels with a fresh eye, a local charity shop (one that has a much better vintage range than some new self styled vintage stores but maybe that's for another thread...) often has Eastex wool, pleated skirts that are weighty and swingy and with more than a hint of Margaret Howell about them. I've not found the right one yet - I want top of the ankle not mid calf length and pleats sewn down at the top - but it's given me a whole new respect for the brand.

[microbius]

Just a word of defence of MH colours. They suit me beautifully!

But; I don't know anyone who can afford MH without a sale, especially the main line. And also a disclaimer: and this is perhaps related, I don't have a single friend who doesn't have a PhD (and work in academia). The question is the spending power, isn't it. And whether salaries kept up with the prices. I am full professor and yet I have to I hunt for MH or Isabel Marant bargains, go to various sample sales, etc, to hit that sweet spot of something I can afford, and great quality/design/particular fit for my life. However, if those brands only relied on customers like me, they would go out of business.

So, young models or weird styling doesn't affect me in the least; I never feel I am their target but mainly because of the price, if it makes sense?
But I would love to support designers properly if I could.

[microbius]

Flo, I loved your description of online clothes shopping being as much fun as buying insurance. Another answer to OP, the things I eye online are never the ones I end up buying at Studio Nicholson when I go to their shop. Nothing compares with trying things on and handling the material, etc. And! I discovered both MH and SN thanks to MN (that's lots of abbreviations) - and bo.

[MerryChristmasToYou]

Superdry quality is OK, but I sort of have it fixed in my mind as what the trendy dads at work wore about 10 yrs ago

Eastex is quality but tends to be a bit short IIRC. A bit great-aunt style but the odd piece might be fine

[microbius]

This seems to be the place to ask: is there something emerging that is like comms des garçons but at the price of studio nicholson (on sale, ahaha)
I am very drawn to their tailoring and coats

[botemp]

There's a bit of overlap between Phoebe English and CDG, not sure if that Young British Designers website is still going but they had great sales and stocked PE and other interesting brands. The more obvious similar brand is Sacai, former employee of CDG but it's the same price point and hard to get hold of. There's also still quite a lot of the CDG and H&M Colab out there, it was well made.