Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Always Have a Ball Gown at the Ready in Celebration of Your Enemy's Demise

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Hello catherine I recognise those feelings of panic / needing to diet/ no idea what to wear!

it seems to me that black tie nowadays encompasses cocktail dresses to ball gowns. It depends on what you feel comfortable in and what the crowd you are joining will be wearing ie if they are a tiara/ medals / royalty kind of crowd I imagine a long ball dress might be most appropriate and there might not be too much leeway. But if it’s not and the bride just wants everyone to look rather glamorous then maybe there is quite a broad idea of what counts as black tie for a woman (including but not exclusively Le smoking 😉)

FWIW I went to a black tie wedding in the autumn 2-3 years ago (hazy on exact year but I know it was before Covid). Many female guests wore smart cocktail dresses but there were also quite a few who had chosen to go down the full-on, full-length glamour route. FWIW I dodged the issue by wearing silk navy blue with cream polka dots palazzo pants, can’t remember what top and then had an amazing royal blue velvet opera coat over it all. So I could let the shoulder of the opera coat drop a bit off my shoulder if I wanted to late in the evening but most of the time I was basically pretty covered up (and warm during the interminable wait for photographs!)

I think anything cocktail length (midi more or less) to the floor is okay for black tie. I always assume weddings aren't that rigid about dress codes anyhow unless you know some really stuffy old fashioned people. I'd look at renting as a possibility, some of the London department stores had some in store rental things that allow you to try it on first.

X post with mm47 who obviously gets invited to more weddings than me 🙈

bo 🤣 I think 7 in the past 20 years….

I think mm47 has it spot on in terms of interpreting the dress code. I agree that a rental is the perfect solution.

Dyeing is completely unpredictable for me too. At Halloween I needed black fabric for the kids' costumes and stuck two old white sheets in the same machine cycle with a packet of Dylon. Both were 100% cotton. The cheap Ikea sheet came out a perfect inky black while the expensive (when new) high thread count sateen came out taupe. I presume the satinising of the cotton made the difference or the tighter weave?

I think I'll try a low buy 2023 but I would like a pair of loafers first. I need to try some on.

The efforts to thin out my wardrobe continue!

Ahem, I think I've attended three and a half (one was more of a celebration of the wedding than the actual wedding so that counts as half) in my lifetime, I might have to check, but pretty sure that is my pity score of wedding attendances 🤔

I'd already forgotten about my resolution making. I sort of unintentionally had a low buy last year, or maybe I just bought a lot of secondhand. I'm not sure except there was a lot more money left over than usually. I should probably sew more and use up my stash of lovely fabrics but I don't really like putting time pressure on my sewing but I suppose I could challenge myself in technical ways. I thought proper tailoring would be super hard but it turned out surprisingly well and was decidedly less stressful to sew than industry style sewing, just a lot slower. Maybe I should tackle a corset next, or something with built in scaffolding with boning. Except we're back to where I started this post, no one invites me to black tie weddings where I could wear something like that. Le sigh.

Now bo, channel some of Dame Viv’s spirit and wear your handmade corset wherever you damn well please!

I thought tailoring was supposed to be incredibly difficult so good on you bo but what tf is industry sewing ? I googled but no joy whereas it had been able to explain bani’s spoon expression perfectly.
nb 3.5 weddings = pretty lucky escape!!!!

Agree with shang especially if you have a jacket on top ready for the dramatic reveal at the end of the working day in the wine bar… although perhaps it might be a bit shy-making as everyone is much more casual nowadays. Perhaps next MN meet up Eg for MHL sale we could all meet the night before for cocktails? I definitely don’t have many opportunities to dress UP as in the depths of the country it’s seriously low key (bit of a bummer if you like clothes and shopping for them as much as I do….)

Elle I think you’ve cracked it ie it’s the cotton sateen finish - I had exactly the same problem with a lovely pair of trousers and cotton dress which went from beige to ancient mildew in colour, I couldn’t understand why the dye didn’t take but I think this must be the reason. I’m a reasonably experienced machine wash Dylon dyer and I’ve never had this result before- so thanks for solving that particular conundrum.

Considering I get asked by weird randos if I'm a dominatrix in my coated linen Kassel coat when out and about I'm rather scared of what a corset would be received like. Anyhow, I'm mostly interested in the mechanics of it and would make a proper original one that was worn over a chemise and under clothes. I'd never wear one of those probably, I've already got the desired shape they make and it's not going to smooth down like modern shapewear would do I'd probably take it apart as soon as it's finished and take my lessons from it to make a pattern to build on for internal scaffolding of a dress. I'm not opposed to meet up just to have an excuse to dress up though

I did try on a more modern corset top when they were a thing this summer, the fit wasn't optimal but I can see why people like them. I'll have a dig in my photos and maybe I'll change my mind on making myself a corset.

Industry sewing is how they sew in most commercial settings, so seam allowances are used as reference to sew from (as opposed to basted or chalked lines with wider seam allowances). It also tends to go back and forth bagging things out to be able to do almost everything by machine. Support layers like interlining are ironed on instead of sewn and in places pad stitched in. Everything is precalculated whereas tailoring/couture will shape (by ironing and manipulating fabric and draping and basting things down) aspects on a three dimensional shape as they go along. I can show an example with sleeves, I shaped the hems with an iron to get a smooth transition on a curve, the book shows what it looks like if you don't do it. A commercial/industrial workaround is to shorten the length of one of the seams in the pattern and they'll stretch one layer by holding it tight when sewing so it evens out to one length as it passes through the machine. It works but it's nowhere near as nice looking as the tailored version imho and I suspect over time that won't age as well as it's worn. Most commercial patterns follow the industrial model as it's efficient and easier to instruct when all you have is text as most troubleshooting has been calculated out and doesn't require extra handling, tools, skill and time.

The book I screenshotted from (Vintage Couture Tailoring by Thomas von Nordheim) has been really good to go from a-z for me, I wish there were more like it as this is just about jackets (blazers), it was easy enough to translate that to coat but I'd love something similar on gowns/dresses, shirts and trousers.

You must have infinite patience bo, I cannot imagine going to all the trouble of making something so intricate only to take it apart again. But that's why I'm at best, a half competent sewer. And shopper - I'm still chastened by all those bad charity shop buys. I've not made any new year resolutions either which is probably because the one I ought to be making is the one that appeals the least: Be more fussy.

I've never been to a real black tie do - private dress up parties yes, but never a proper Event. No idea what I'd wear. I must have some fabulous gowns in the wardrobe still but I'm not really interested in them any more, and yet a tuxedo would feel a bit of a cliche. Anyway it's not a dilemma I'm likely to be facing. I'm sure you'll get some great suggestions CatherineMaitland and I'm looking forward to seeing them.

A black tie wedding. I am a sucker for dress up occasions, but I have not attended one recently but I agree that mm is on the right track wrt how to interpret it, and also agree that is a great occasion to rent something.
I didn’t realise that John Lewis also has rental, selfridges have a few items on their shop too. If I am not mistaken you are near London catherine? But in any case the rental market is everywhere now. I don’t fully remember your style, type of dresses you wear catherine but I put some images here to generate discussion 😀. These are in the £30-£40 rental bracket.

thanks shangpie for the ‘stylish tracking’ boots recommendations. I like them .

I've been deconstructing and reconstructing my entire life Flo, I rather enjoy it and somewhat made it my job. Apparently I had one of those walking wheelie things as a baby/toddler. You know one where the legs hang out underneath in a sort of seat from underneath a plastic tray and you can just touch the floor enough to practice walking, or just sit there like a potato. I don't think they do make them anymore, probably because they fell apart quite spectacularly and quite randomly. Apparently the first time that happened I cried but watched with great interest as one of my parents put it back together again, after that I was happily reconstructing the thing myself and would just make angry noises about wanting to be put back in it 😂

Interesting choicesRed, I do think a strong colour is the way to go as I suspect anything long and pastel-y could have you mistaken for a bridesmaid. Undecided on sequins depends on time of the day. I quite like the idea of an oversized pattern too, there are some nice evening dresses with those around.

Someone posted a daily fail article with someone renting their entire holiday wardrobe for some fancy resort wedding a while back. There was one rental company that allowed returns so long as you didn't take the tags off, was it My Wardrobe HQ? Does anyone remember? That would definitely be an extra selling point for me. I think my wardrobe hq had a space in Harrods, but all the big department stores seemed to have something of the sort.

I decided it was time for a name change, as I have been spending too much time on the politics boards!

Wedding outfits are always an interesting conundrum. Last summer's was "garden party" outdoors in 40C heat: cocktail dresses or black tie would probably have had guests fainting! I have my own (second) wedding outfit that I tend to back diet into for anything formal because it's a classic Jackie O-K dress and coat in aqua silk. I have been married 30 years, so it's not owing me anything. XingJr's is likely to be some time coming, and that will justify a splurge!

I forgot to ask Catherine, what month of the year is the wedding? I was assuming a winter wedding.

I think she said June but I'm too lazy to read back which does make it a bit tricky with predicting the weather. Could be the inferno of last summer, could be the drizzly meh weather of the year before that.

Are you back from Paris already Red, did you have a good time?

*July, autocorrect disagrees and thinks June apparently, scary bastard.

Thanks bo for the explanation of industrial sewing and I absolutely love your description of deconstructing and reconstructing your baby walker. It sounds like you really are intrigued by how things are made so the end result (from corsets to your line of work) is a byproduct of this fascination.

I can well imagine that clothes that have been properly made to fit with couture techniques rather than industrially sewn RTW would feel absolutely amazing and if that was one’s norm it would make wearing RTW feel pretty insubstantial in comparison. As life didn’t pan out that way I am not so discerning 🤡 but I can completely see how it follows that as you really get deeper into clothes and style you end up sewing your own. I remember years ago volunteering for a while in the Red Cross Church Street shop. One of the customers was trying on a dress and I thought she looked amazing but she said the neckline was a little bit too high or narrow or something (?) and folded it to illustrate her point. It was such a minimal thing but it was transformative. I’ve never forgotten it because I was so impressed with her discernment! She explained she learned about fit when she’d been a model many years beforehand.

And flo my wardrobe is full of not quite right things, my husband calls my charity shop addiction my charity work so I can salve my conscience that win some, lose some, at least the money goes to charity and even if most of it is swallowed up in paying for staff some of it must trickle into the coffers to benefit orphans or cancer/heart research etc. I’ve always loved those articles about capsule wardrobes - for the novelty of imagining living like that, when the reality is I would probably die of boredom! when I was an au pair at the beginning of the 80s I worked for a French woman in the Middle East. She had a beautiful pair of burgundy knee high boots, burgundy stacked heeled loafers and a dark olive green bag, all Celine, a pair of jeans and a white t shirt, a navy blue v neck cashmere sweater, a green and burgundy patterned cotton shirt from Yves Saint Laurent, a green loden coat and a silk knickerbocker and matching shirt - YSL. And apart from swimwear, her nightdress and a pair of Scholls and maybe one sundress I don’t think I saw her wear anything else in 6 months. She looked amazing but I just don’t have that rigour to be so sparing (even if the reality is I don’t wear many more pieces on a daily basis from my own wardrobe than this, but I enjoy the possibility of doing so.)

At the moment I’m feeling stuffocated with clothes. I need to lose some
weight and then have a wardrobe sort out.

Effortless like the sound of your aqua silk Jackie OK outfit, I love that colour, it sounds beautiful.

so catherine is there anything in reds suggestions that is a good starting point in terms of colour or style? And how do you feel about renting, or do you want to buy the outfit? And if you do want to buy it, do you want to be able to style it down for more casual use afterwards (which is where my silk palazzo pants came in useful - for me)?

sorry bit stream of consciousness (plus ca change … 🤡)

In that case ignore the photos I showed catherine! I know July can be unpredictable but green sequins are definitely not the way to go 😊. I should have read better…

I am back from Paris. We had a great time, quite a lot of walking, eating on the go with a number of children/teens in tow. But the adults took turns and a group of us managed to go out to small bars with music, and great cocktails and no tourists.
sezane was a disappointment for me and the others on my group, I only went as we had someone from Melbourne with us who was very keen to visit the shop. I tried a top (photo) but it just didn’t fit well, a pair of trousers wasn’t on my size either. The rest was just uninspiring, nice enough stuff but nothing interesting.
we had a brief stop at LBM, they had a sale for people with their customer loyalty card (I am tempted to get one), I didn’t realise that, I tried these green loafers which were extremely comfortable and a lovely soft leather, they were half price with the loyalty card so I left them as the full price was not justifiable for me (no idea about the brand).
In short, I didn’t buy anything but that wasn’t my objective anyway.

I have my eyes on the toast and rixo sale … I need to think if is an impulse or more than that… I will sit on it and see …

cross post with mm!

Sézane has some nice enough things here and there (silk bits in the summer and autumn jumpers, occasionally a nice summer dress) but I've never understood the undying love for it as I struggle to differentiate it from Zara in terms of quality which I already find overpriced for what it is.

Ah, you should have sent out the bat signal as I have a loyalty card from LBM (I was just bemoaning to Elle the other week that for all the money I spend there all it gets me is free valet parking at their store) that I can easily screenshot for others to use. Roseanna is a fairly popular brand in France though, keep an eye out at Smallable and L'exception if you're kicking yourself and want them anyhow, they're probably already doing a presale there but next week Wednesday prices will probably be lower.

Mm, yes my rate of interest in a project tends to taper at the end, that's the good thing about clients, as their enthusiasm tends to increase at that point. The woman you nanny-ed for sounds dreamy, I'm still searching for a cognac version of those Celine boots she wore. Making my own shoes feels a step too far though, no matter how fascinating I find the process...

Thanks, everyone, for suggestions! The wedding is in July.

My usual style is quite formal and streamlined so I'm a bit lacking in ruffles and sequins. I prefer sleeves to sleeveless and darker colours. I'd happily buy something if it was simple enough enough to wear again.

I feel a bit less panicky about it now, anyway. :)

mm47 I normally use the same justification and have probably done so on previous threads! But this time I didn't manage to convince myself for some reason. It might be because my main sewing projects this last six months have involved unpicking and restitching things I made in lockdown that I thought 'would do'. So there's a theme.

I've never been drawn to renting clothes but I think I might for for a black tie do as it would mean I could really go for it, unencumbered by all that 'But I'd never wear it again' kind of guilt. Didn't Jane Shepherdson set up some kind of rental business after she left Whistles? Can't remember what it was called and I've no idea if she's still involved.

I'd been planning to treat myself to a bit of fairisle in the sales, possibly (at the risk of dredging up old controversies) a knitted tank top. But you know what, now January's here I'm not so interested any more. It all looks a bit Christmas Jumper, even the traditional patterns without the pine tree or reindeer silhouettes. It's a bit like velvet - once New Years Day has been and gone the hankering passes until the next winter. Of course the sensible thing would be to buy now and put it away, but I'm not that sensible.

Sorry CatherineMaitland cross post!

Mm47 I love the description of the pared back wardrobe. It sounds so thoughtfully put together and yet not at all dull. So many capsule wardrobes are dullsville.

I'm also envious of those who can see that a neckline should be a smidge higher or wider. I feel that ability to discern leads to a truly great wardrobe. The difficulty is I suppose that you then need time to hunt down the perfect t-shirt. I also lack that. Which is why I rely so heavily on the help here!

Catherine my mind first went to The Vampires Wife. There are lots available on dress hire sites. The only thing is that it's a very identifiable silhouette and a bit overdone at this stage. I think you could go for a midi length dress if buying to keep it versatile? Two here from Saloni and Reformation (who are not fantastic quality for the price). I also thought this Erdem to rent was interesting and a bit unconventional.

Ah now necklines are something I do get fussy about Elle and it is a curse I tell you, a curse as they are never, ever right.

Anyway to answer my own question upthread, the Jane Shepherdson rental business is My Wardrobe HQ although I'm not sure if she's still involved.