🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Bear Shaped Pseudo Face Vibrators, Don't Ask us What They're For(eo) 🐻

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

Ah yes I didn't think to check Sephora bo. Dr jart is there! I will need to look into this later.

Look fantastic greece doesn't carry all the brands that the normal look fantastic does.

Curlsmith bond salve: left it on for an hour. You can do between 20 mins and an hour but decided to do the maximum given that I'd gone to the trouble of applying it to my hair!

Hope I got the dr Sam delivery cost right - sure I did though.

Thank you too Ilovemydog. No idea about boots EU delivery but will check it out.

Boots EU site is crap they have only a handful of brands of little interest (no.7, indeed labs, and soap and glory but much more expensive than in the UK). They're handy sometimes for me as they still have a few pharmacies here so I can pick up an order for free if I just need one thing from La Roche Posay but they tend to be more expensive, I don't really see the point of them, customer service is good though.

Ooooo I love Curlsmith bond salve! Have gone over to most of their products as I was getting in a muddle with protein and they seem to do the whole moisture/protein thing in the right ratios for my slightly parched highlighted hair!

Dr Sam Bunting mask has arrived- will be going on tonight as face has been mashed into a PPE mask all day and it could do with some love. Will report back…

Re Dr Sam gossamer SPF. I’ve got tint 01 and it’s incredibly sheer. It’s not like a tinted moisturiser. I’ve got heliocare 360 in a tinted version, for example, and it would pass as a well pigmented tinted moisturiser. I’m not at home at the moment but I’ll try to remember to swatch it and post a photo Bo and Sophie

Yes I've just had an amazing wash day with the bond salve mummying. I also bought the three in 1 conditioner from the protein line so I can use it as a deep conditioner with my rice treatments. Do you have curly/wavy hair too mummyingetc?

Do let me know what you think of the dr Sam mask too. I think I'm going to order it plus her mineral SPF. Tried a new SPF yesterday from a local Greek brand and it was very hydrating and less white cast than my avene one. Got to see if it gives me spots though....

Thanks jedstre. Proper tinted ones look awful on me!!!

Well bond salve is OOS so that only makes me want it more , I have their hydration mask but I really should use it more often. How protein heavy do you find the bond salve Sophie and Mummying? I like the look of the mousse too, I really need to step away from the Curlsmith site

I'm very curious about the gossamer SPF, is it similar to the Chanel foundation that's barely a foundation (the clear one with little bubbles in it)?

I’ve just been looking at Dr Sam’s stuff but it’s a bit pricey for me especially if I end up not liking it.

I’ve got a heliocare tinted spf and find it quite tacky and doesn’t apply well, much prefer frezyderm tinted.

I’ve tried the Gruum and L’Oréal spfs now, Gruum is ok but leaves a bit of a white cast on me, surprisingly I really like the L’Oréal so far but only put it on this morning so need further testing to make sure it doesn’t give me spots or whiteheads.

I need to have another look at the curly hair threads, I’ve had a load chopped off mine and it’s very wavy without the weight to pull it down, unfortunately the waves are tatty/uneven and give me triangle head

I’ve never really been a foundation-wearer due to the freckles so I’m not familiar with the Chanel one @botemp- the closest I’ve ever gotten is the NARS tinted moisturiser or the chantecaille gel one and the Dr Sam’s is more sheer than those. It’s quite buttery in consistency though so you think it’s going to be thicker than it actually is.

I don’t think the bond salve is protein heavy- I can’t do rice rinses as they make my hair go brittle and break and this does the opposite of that and makes my hair supple but not moisture overload mushy. I do use the co-wash conditioner and the moisture surge spray. Oh and come to think of it the scalp detox set 😊 I definitely didn’t step away from the Curlsmith website- in fact I became quite trigger happy. Oopsie. Hair is about the best it’s been though so…

My hair is wavy post chemo- @SophieLion so quite a novelty having been dead straight for 30 years! If I curly girl style it the waves will stay in for a day or so. I did quite a bit of research into hair growth for obvious reasons and it’s more the hair health aspect of the curly girl method I’m into so I’m not strict and only faff with gel etc occasionally. Co-washing is wonderful in my opinion though!

So I like the mask! Only one night in a thin ish layer so preliminary results but woke up even toned and moisturised. Not full wow but nice and by no means an easy feat for my very blotchy prone skin…

I don't find the bond salve to be particularly high in protein Bo. I wasn't using it as a protein treatment. Used it as a bond repairer comparable to Olaplex (but my hair felt nicer after the bond salve than after olaplex - maybe that was the protein? Although I understand that the bond salve repairs more bonds than olaplex does).

Dr Sam also recommends heliocare gel SPF - I assume that's not your tacky one Sallie? Yes come and join our curly hair thread!

Sorry to hear you've been through chemo Mummying. I also think hair health is the most important aspect but obviously healthier hair does look better too - I have much less frizz than I used to. I also started taking the bounce curl hair vitamins after a rubbish cut a few months ago and I do think they have helped with growth.

the dr sam mask sounds decent too.

My evaluation of the CGM after reading up on it wasn't quite the same, I focus more on hair loss as I suffer with that so to me scalp health is very important and I don't think the CGM is very conducive to that. It'll highly depend on the person but I'm definitely not a good candidate for the more hard-line CGM approach. It is nice for the health of the actual hairs though.

Anyhow, I've looked up the INCI of the bond salve and it has polyqauts in so unfortunately it's not for me. Still would like something of a preshampoo as I chemically exfoliate (and sometimes microneedle) my scalp these days and that's usually a half hour before washing so it's nice to double up then as opposed to doing a mask.

Any of you experts rate anything on this list?

store.tatler.com/products/tatler-experts-edit/?utm_source=banner

Hi sssLoou 👋 with the exception of the dr Sam cleanser which has been talked about here (though I’ve never tried it) I’m not familiar with any of those products but I tend to mainly stick to low - medium priced ranges.

Sophie this is the heliocare I have, I don’t like it much as it doesn’t absorb very well (feels tacky) and tends to look cakey when I use the recommended amount. The non tinted might be better.

heliocare.co.uk/products/beige-color-oil-free-gel

*ssLou, there isn't anything in that kit that would entice me to buy it. I'd categorise it as a selection of brands that do have some good products that are active ingredient led but for the most part these are the inoffensive gentle products that bulk out the lineup rather than the star players that'll be more nice to use and make you feel good. If that's how you like your skincare and you like trying new things and this is the type of skincare you usually pay full price for (as opposed to occasionally buying one expensive but effective product), then it's well designed for that.

Thanks for the feedback - v helpful. I am totally bamboozled by all the different approaches to skin care - need to read up and decide what I need / want.

Ooo bo- what’s bad about polyquats? I thought 37 was ok? Weirdly- my hair is super thick as well as wavy now so I just wanted it to grow quickly and not get trashed while I bleach it- so I did the whole biotin thing and cut sulphates/ heat styling.

I know it’s a bit of an oxymoron to highlight it while being bothered about hair health but when it was super short I felt so dowdy with it brown- bleaching it made it feel more of a style I could rock.

Interesting about bounce curl vits? Might give those a go in my next shopping round…

Sssloou if you need any help figuring it out feel free to ask, we tend to be no frills evidence based and active led on here but happy to point in other directions

Bounce curl vitamins are mostly Biotin, Mummying.

There's nothing bad about polyqauts but basically they're the silicone substitutes of the CGM method. My hair is really build up prone so I could never use silicones and I had the same reaction to polyqauts, I'd get great initial results and then it slowly built up and it would look greasy and lank. The sulphate free shampoos don't really get rid of them on me so it really wasn't a good combination, there was a time my best wash days were when I clarified which is somewhat the opposite of the CGM.

There are some super strict CGM types who go on and on how terrible polyqauts are because they're not 'natural' but I wouldn't pay much attention to those scaremongers.

we tend to be no frills evidence based and active led on here

That’s refreshing as it’s v tedious to Wade through the invented cosmeceutical made up language!

I am 54 - have no major skin issues just want an effective routine to look glowing and prevent further ageing. I did Liz Earle routine for a while - it was good but I got lazy ….. I am stuck in the 90’s and it’s news to me that there was anything more than cleanse, tone and moisturise….(dropped the toning at least)…

Think I need to up my game

Oh that is the one dr Sam was recommending Sallie. Won't be trying that then - unless I get a small free sample.

Not tried any of those products Sssloou.

Well whatever is in the vitamins (and there is other stuff but don't recall how much as away on hols without the bottle - bo Is probably right though as she's good with ingredients), I think they helped my hair mummyingetc! There's always the chance it's psychological but honestly I don't think so as I noticed the baby hairs around my face getting longer and they usually never grow (this was after 4 months or so).

I'm ok with polyquats mummyingetc but then I don't cowash and use the bounce curl clarifying shampoo most washes (it's a gentler clarifier without harsh ingredients and suits me well). I also do a chelating wash with sulphates about once a month.

Sssloou, if I condense it down most of us will follow a routine somewhat like this:

AM

Cleanse (just water if dry, for combo/oily a gentle no frills water based cleanser from a brand like Cerave, La Roche Posay, Avène, etc.)

Vitamin C serum (this is a very tricky one to get right as formulation is key and the best one is patented, at the moment our preferred product is unavailable in the UK so we endless meander nonsensically on its absence and what to use instead).

Moisturiser for some (again no frills, a moisturiser just needs to moisturise it isn't the best base to add active ingredients to so it really doesn't need to do much but moisturise and contain some barrier support ingredients like ceramides and niacinamide, similar brands to the cleanser)

Standalone SPF (not in your moisturiser), this is key and like good skincare nerds we wax on lyrical about the importance of daily SPF, 365 days a year, reapplying every two hours with prolonged outdoor exposure.

PM

Oil based cleanser to remove SPF and makeup

Secondary cleanse with water based cleanser (the one from the morning, usually)

A retinoid, either a derivative (retinol, retinoate, retinaldehyde) or the prescription version through a prescription service like Skin + Me

Moisturiser

Some will alternate the retinoid every other day, or X amount of time per week with a chemical exfoliator. This tends to be the gateway drug into active skincare as this shows the quickest results (vitamin C fairly quickly and retinoids take the longest to show results but are the most impressive in terms of lasting skin health). Then there can be additional products for specific issues, eg. Acne, dehydration, etc.

You don't need it all, and you definitely should not start using it all at once. Anything active needs to be introduced gradually and therefore takes several weeks or even months to use at the above stated frequency. At its most basic it's cleanse, moisturiser, SPF. SPF is usually a tricky one to get right as you need one you like to use in order to be using it at the right dosage, and you go through a bottle once a month so it also needs to work to your budget. All the reasons why SPF is so crucial regardless of following an actives routine is covered in the linked info sheet in the OP.

For you, it sounds like getting some basics in place (if you like your current moisturiser and cleanser, carry on using those), finding the SPF that works for you and then move on to a chemical exfoliator or vitamin C for a bit of a boost and glow. You can always contemplate a retinoid further down the line.

Sophie, yes there are a few other ingredients that are good for general health but you wouldn't really need as a supplement if you eat a good and varied diet. Only the Biotin and B5 are there in really high doses well over the advised daily intake. B5 is more of use as hair loss prevention and potentially preventing greying but not really for hair growth. The B5 might be the reason you see the improvement with baby hairs as these are often quite weak and fall out/break off. The evidence around Biotin for hair growth is still a bit suspect, as I understand it, these hair vitamins don't make hair grow, but just support overall health of the hair (internally) which allows it to grow longer with less damage, which to most people is observed as hair growth but technically it doesn't influence the growing aspect or the speed of it. I've always been wary of taking biotin as it's known to cause breakouts, the B5 has some evidence of helping acne so maybe that evens it out in this formula.

@botemp

Sssloou, if I condense it down most of us will follow a routine somewhat like this:

AM

Cleanse (just water if dry, for combo/oily a gentle no frills water based cleanser from a brand like Cerave, La Roche Posay, Avène, etc.)

Vitamin C serum (this is a very tricky one to get right as formulation is key and the best one is patented, at the moment our preferred product is unavailable in the UK so we endless meander nonsensically on its absence and what to use instead).

Moisturiser for some (again no frills, a moisturiser just needs to moisturise it isn't the best base to add active ingredients to so it really doesn't need to do much but moisturise and contain some barrier support ingredients like ceramides and niacinamide, similar brands to the cleanser)

Standalone SPF (not in your moisturiser), this is key and like good skincare nerds we wax on lyrical about the importance of daily SPF, 365 days a year, reapplying every two hours with prolonged outdoor exposure.

PM

Oil based cleanser to remove SPF and makeup

Secondary cleanse with water based cleanser (the one from the morning, usually)

A retinoid, either a derivative (retinol, retinoate, retinaldehyde) or the prescription version through a prescription service like Skin + Me

Moisturiser

Some will alternate the retinoid every other day, or X amount of time per week with a chemical exfoliator. This tends to be the gateway drug into active skincare as this shows the quickest results (vitamin C fairly quickly and retinoids take the longest to show results but are the most impressive in terms of lasting skin health). Then there can be additional products for specific issues, eg. Acne, dehydration, etc.

You don't need it all, and you definitely should not start using it all at once. Anything active needs to be introduced gradually and therefore takes several weeks or even months to use at the above stated frequency. At its most basic it's cleanse, moisturiser, SPF. SPF is usually a tricky one to get right as you need one you like to use in order to be using it at the right dosage, and you go through a bottle once a month so it also needs to work to your budget. All the reasons why SPF is so crucial regardless of following an actives routine is covered in the linked info sheet in the OP.

For you, it sounds like getting some basics in place (if you like your current moisturiser and cleanser, carry on using those), finding the SPF that works for you and then move on to a chemical exfoliator or vitamin C for a bit of a boost and glow. You can always contemplate a retinoid further down the line.

Wow thank you so much @botemp for taking all that time to write that - I really appreciate it. Will get stuck in

Morning everyone.
Random news but did you know that The Hut Group (which owns look fantastic amongst others) bought cultbeauty? No idea what this will mean for us as they have different offerings. Maybe nothing will change?
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/04/cult-beauty-taken-over-by-the-hut-group-in-275m-deal

Also is Boots trying to become some sort of Sephora? It's adding new brands at a rapid pace. I wonder if it will end up stocking Natasha Denona and Pat Mcgrath (exclusive to Selfridges now). There are a few expensive brands not available in physical stores, with no possibly to try before buying in a country where returning beauty and skincare is not common.

Interesting, there's hardly going to be any independents left. Not that I really considered CB independent for a while now, it was fairly clear they were investing heavily with outside investors for rapid growth and dominance with an eye to selling it on.

Boots going Sephora seems an odd but expected in a M&S misguided guide to business way. I think Superdrug has the better mass market strategy with an emphasis on affordability as the beauty bubble of teenagers hoarding several £££ makeup palettes is set to burst any moment now, if it hasn't burst already.