Canada Goose - too hot for London?

[londonmummy1234]

I brought myself a Canada Goose Mystique Parka... it was pricey at £1100 but apparently lasts forever blah blah.
It arrived today and it feels really hot and heavy to wear but all the other mums in London seem to be wearing CG?!
What's people's experiences with it and if too hot can they offer an alternative?
Looking for a long coat and padded! Thanks

The research on overconsumption of grains.

It’s interesting you mention economic interests - I agree these can muddy the waters, and it works both ways (meat and dairy and v*gan interests both do this). For example, the dairy and meat industries promote meat and dairy as ‘healthy’ and ‘part of a balanced diet’ - they’ve got an obvious reason to do this.

But as far as the coats go they are out of my price range. If I had bought one, I wouldn't waste it, I would wear it if the weather was cold enough.

Google how these coats are made and I think (hope) you'll regret your purchase 😢

I agree these can muddy the waters, and it works both ways (meat and dairy and vgan interests both do this).

Exactly! This is why I let people make their own decisions regarding what they eat and wear and I will make mine.

@pensivepigeon

The research on overconsumption of grains.

Do you mean that he suggests processed grains are harmful and linked to diabetes? So if you think this is good evidence that processed grains are harmful you don’t eat processed grains. Eat whole foods instead.

I do eat whole foods. However, it is not just a quality issue but quantity also. And how would you overcome the saturated fat versus vegetable oil issue?

@pensivepigeon

I agree these can muddy the waters, and it works both ways (meat and dairy and vgan interests both do this).

Exactly! This is why I let people make their own decisions regarding what they eat and wear and I will make mine.

I ‘let’ people make their own decisions - I don’t have control over other peoples decisions nor would I want to.

But I wave a red flag when I know billions of sentient animals are being killed every year and animal farming is a massive contributor to global warming. My choices as a vegan aren’t doing harm to other sentient beings - animals and humans (unless you count that my choices make some people feel uncomfortable....)

The average person that chooses to eat meat, eats 7000 animals in their lifetime. The average person that chooses to eat meat, contributes about twice the greenhouse gas emissions than the average vegan.

People make their own choices, but those choices can have a serious negative impact on animals, humans and the environment. We’re in a terrible situation and I’m not keeping quiet.

@pensivepigeon

I do eat whole foods. However, it is not just a quality issue but quantity also. And how would you overcome the saturated fat versus vegetable oil issue?

But vegan diets can avoid those things that might not be healthy, they can avoid processed carbs, they can avoid processed grains, certain fats.

I’m afraid you’re following a straw man - you’re attacking veganism by attacking something else (the foods that you’ve mentioned that might be harmful).

But I wave a red flag when I know billions of sentient animals

I have read plenty of studies that have convinced me plants are sentient. So I respect them like I respect animals.

animal farming is a massive contributor to global warming

The food produced which forms part of a vegan diet can be just as harmful to the environment. There are problems with mono culture, grain production, soy, coconut oil, palm oil - the list goes on. There are no simple choices for a series of complex problems.

Everything in the environment has an impact on it. Not to say we do nothing, however let people do what they feel able to without judging them too harshly. Never forget that some people won't have the same degree of luxury as many on here to choose what they eat or wear.

I’m afraid you’re following a straw man - you’re attacking veganism by attacking something else (the foods that you’ve mentioned that might be harmful).

It would be very difficult as a vegan to avoid all unsaturated vegetable oils and eat saturated animal fat instead.

@pensivepigeon

But I wave a red flag when I know billions of sentient animals

I have read plenty of studies that have convinced me plants are sentient. So I respect them like I respect animals.

animal farming is a massive contributor to global warming

The food produced which forms part of a vegan diet can be just as harmful to the environment. There are problems with mono culture, grain production, soy, coconut oil, palm oil - the list goes on. There are no simple choices for a series of complex problems.

Everything in the environment has an impact on it. Not to say we do nothing, however let people do what they feel able to without judging them too harshly. Never forget that some people won't have the same degree of luxury as many on here to choose what they eat or wear.

If you think plants are sentient and are worried about plants, then I’m afraid choosing to eating meat means you’re responsible for more plants being killed. As explained upthread, more plants are needed to produce the same amount of energy in calories in meat for consumption compared to plants for consumption.

And if you’re worried about plant agriculture and the impact on the environment then the same goes - we’d need to grow less plants and use less land if we just ate the plants ourselves instead of feeding them to animals.

Eating meat to protect plants and reduce the number of plants killed is nonsensical.

Yes everything we do has an impact - but some choices have more of an impact than others.

@pensivepigeon

I’m afraid you’re following a straw man - you’re attacking veganism by attacking something else (the foods that you’ve mentioned that might be harmful).

It would be very difficult as a vegan to avoid all unsaturated vegetable oils and eat saturated animal fat instead.

There are vegan saturated fats.

I’m afraid you’re following a straw man - you’re attacking veganism by attacking something else (the foods that you’ve mentioned that might be harmful

And just because being vegan is about what you don't eat doesn't mean people won't make comments over what you do eat, in the same way vegans make comments concerning people eating animal products.

There are vegan saturated fats

Coconut oil?

"So despite its benign reputation, coconut has a surprisingly large negative impact on tropical biodiversity. Per volume of oil produced, coconut production affects more species than any other oil crop, including oil palm. ... In fact, coconut cultivation has directly contributed to the extinction of some species.8 Jul 2020"
(www.independent.co.uk › long_reads)

@pensivepigeon

I’m afraid you’re following a straw man - you’re attacking veganism by attacking something else (the foods that you’ve mentioned that might be harmful

And just because being vegan is about what you don't eat doesn't mean people won't make comments over what you do eat, in the same way vegans make comments concerning people eating animal products.

Eating processed foods, refined grains and unsaturated fats are not an essential part of being vegan. They aren’t the definition of veganism. Vegans can eat those things, not eat all those things, or eat some of those things.

Eating animals is an essential part of being a meat eater. Eating animals is the definition of a meat eater.

Arguing against veganism on the basis that some things that vegans may or may not eat may be harmful, isn’t a true argument against veganism.

It’s like saying ‘all international travel is bad for the environment because aviation is bad for the environment’.

Yes, aviation is bad for the environment.
But, all international travel is not done by plane.

So no, all international travel is not bad for the environment.

Logical argument is really important to focus on the key issues.

You definitely don't need a CG jacket for London hell I live in North Scotland and majority of the time it would be too hot up here and it hasn't reached above 3 degrees since end of November!

There are some very good outdoor gear jackets which would be better. Check out sportspursuit they generally have a wide range of very high end outdoor gear.
Personally I got for layers so I have a down gilet or jacket followed by a waterproof jacket but you can also get waterproof padded parka styles. Try patagonia, arcytrx, spider or some of the Swedish/Finnish companies.

Eating processed foods, refined grains and unsaturated fats are not an essential part of being vegan. They aren’t the definition of veganism. Vegans can eat those things, not eat all those things, or eat some of those things.

But if vegan unsaturated fats are hugely problematic environmentally then you are left with very little saturated fats to eat.

Eating animals is an essential part of being a meat eater. Eating animals is the definition of a meat eater.

However, the arguments against eating meat fall down if the meats that are eaten are farmed or hunted sustainably and are not intensively farmed or hunted. The arguments against cruelty are also moot if it is accepted that plants are also sentient.

If vegan saturated fats are problematic environmentally you are left with very little saturated fats to eat.

@pensivepigeon

Eating processed foods, refined grains and unsaturated fats are not an essential part of being vegan. They aren’t the definition of veganism. Vegans can eat those things, not eat all those things, or eat some of those things.

But if vegan unsaturated fats are hugely problematic environmentally then you are left with very little saturated fats to eat.

Eating animals is an essential part of being a meat eater. Eating animals is the definition of a meat eater.

However, the arguments against eating meat fall down if the meats that are eaten are farmed or hunted sustainably and are not intensively farmed or hunted. The arguments against cruelty are also moot if it is accepted that plants are also sentient.

I don’t agree - I wouldn’t agree with eating meat even if it’s not been farmed industrially. It’s just just about the environment, it’s about animal welfare too.

And like I said earlier the point about plants is incorrect for the reasons I set out earlier about trophic levels. If you want less plants to die, eat less meat. I’m not sure in how many different ways I can try and explain that. Regardless, you’re in very small minority if you think plants are sentient in the same way animals are.

And that quote about some coconut oil is again you making a straw man case.

I feel like I’ve contributed everything I can to the discussion and it’s now going in circles so I’ll be leaving this thread now.

🤷‍♀️

If you want less plants to die, eat less meat.

Which would mean less animals exist. If you farm sustainably, no bit of an animal's body need be wasted which mitigates the perceived energy losses. I think farming and hunting humanely and sustainably as possible is key rather than veganism.

Regardless, you’re in very small minority if you think plants are sentient in the same way animals are.

Sentience is key for me. They don't have to be sentient in the same way.

And that quote about some coconut oil is again you making a straw man case.

So what other easily available vegan saturated fats are there?

@VforVegan I feel like you might be being trolled......

@pensivepigeon do you really believe that plants are as sentient as animals? What do you believe? What evidence do you have for this?

Even if we accepted your proposition that plants and animals have the same levels of sentience this actually supports a plant based diet. Do you not see that? Do you not understand what’s already been said about 10 times - eating plants rather than animals means less plants are killed? It’s high school level biology. Google trophic levels.

If you feed X number of carrots to Y number rabbits to create Z amount calories to feed a human, you will always have less calories than if you feed X number carrots directly to the human. Energy is lost at each stage of the food chain. So part of those calories from the carrots that are feed to the rabbit are lost in energy the rabbit expends. The calories you get out of the rabbit do not equal the calories you put in.

So if you really really believe you want to reduce the total number of carrots (or whatever) being killed, you should eat them directly rather than feed them to the rabbit and eat the rabbit.

On the coconut oil, yes - there are concerns about how some coconut oil is produced. But there are alternatives. Where do you get your saturated fat from? Meat and dairy? You have concerns about coconut oil but not meat and dairy? Really?

If your argument boils down to ‘plants have feelings too’ and ‘some coconut oil is unethical’ then I don’t think there’s much more for anyone to say.

And by alternatives I mean there are ethically produced coconut oils.

You seem to have latched on to one medical professional but disregarded all the other studies and information presented to you. As far as I’m aware he argues that a vegan diet is not necessarily healthy. Nobody has said that. A vegan could survive off chips. Vegans can be healthy and unhealthy. Do you think a meat based diet is necessarily healthy? Do you not see that like vegans, meat eaters can have more and less healthy diets?

You disregarded the China study because ‘you’re not Chinese’. Did you look into it? Have you read the book?

do you really believe that plants are as sentient as animals?

There are lots of studies available. This book outlines some of them.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodlands-Oliver-Rackham/dp/0008156913/ref=sr11_1?crid=1APCI78H6TNGZ&dchild=1&keywords=woodlands+oliver+rackham&qid=1612984751&sprefix=Woodlands+oliver%2Caps%2C217&sr=8-1

So if you really really believe you want to reduce the total number of carrots (or whatever) being killed, you should eat them directly rather than feed them to the rabbit and eat the rabbit.

Why? What if the rabbit lived wild until it was responsibly and humanely killed. If I was to utilise the whole of the rabbit? The rabbit would give me different nutrition, dietary protein, iron etc. I could use the skin for clothing and bones to make fertiliser.

On the coconut oil, yes - there are concerns about how some coconut oil is produced

Just as there are concerns over how some meat is produced.

You seem to have latched on to one medical professional but disregarded all the other studies and information presented to you.

Just as you are selective with the research you take on board to make the decision to become vegan.

Do you not see that like vegans, meat eaters can have more and less healthy diets?

Of course. Just as veganism isn't necessarily the better ethical choice.