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Canada Goose - too hot for London?

317 replies

londonmummy1234 · 04/02/2021 22:01

I brought myself a Canada Goose Mystique Parka... it was pricey at £1100 but apparently lasts forever blah blah.
It arrived today and it feels really hot and heavy to wear but all the other mums in London seem to be wearing CG?!
What's people's experiences with it and if too hot can they offer an alternative?
Looking for a long coat and padded! Thanks

OP posts:
MapleMay11 · 10/02/2021 08:39

So while you might eat less soya than me, for example, as a meat eater you’re responsible for more soya production than me, because that cow you ate was fed soy. A lot of it. More than you’d need if you ate the soy directly. Because of energy loss.

That's a huge assumption to make. How do you know the person isn't sourcing meat from animals fed with alternative feedstuffs?

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 08:46

@eaglejulesk

What is going to happen (what is already happening) is gradual change - individuals changing what they eat and wear and do. And this over time leads to structural change at a large scale - what we would want is that jobs would shift, communities adapt, and the number of animals being farmed would gradually dwindle. Obviously we’d need to manage this - to support new ways of living, new jobs and so on.

Once again lofty idealism. If it could ever happen - and it certainly won't be in my lifetime - what are these new ways of living, new jobs etc? In the current world so many jobs which thousands of people used to do have disappeared because of technology, if farming (other than plants) was to go what on earth are those people involved in farming supposed to do? You are presumably in the UK, where people can live their whole lives without any exposure to rural life and ways, but other countries have their economic success based on farming - what are they going to change to which will ensure the livelihoods of their citizens are protected? Remember, this has to be something which is not going to harm the environment, and presumably fishing is also out. I suspect you also interact mainly with like-minded individuals and have little knowledge of those who will NEVER change their ways when it comes to things like eating meat. I also wonder if you have any idea about the use of chemicals in food production, or is the whole world suddenly going to embrace organic food (which generally costs more).

As for the gradual change in what individuals eat, wear and do - this has been going on for a long time, veganism is not something new.

As I said in an earlier post I applaud your ethics but I'm afraid my days of being an idealist are long past. We are killing our planet, I certainly agree with that, but there are so many other things which need to be addressed, and I'm sure you will agree that is not happening at the speed it should. I would also like to mention that while I am not a big meat eater I do eat chicken and fish, and to be honest I really have no intention, or even wish, to change to a plant based diet. I will also continue to wear wool as it is so much superior to any man-made fibre.

You agree we are killing the planet, but think we have more important things to address?

The two industries contributing to greenhouse gas emissions are energy and heat production and agriculture and land use. We don’t have more important things to address. We need to address these two urgently. We need to look at all of the other contributors (like transport) in parallel. We are in crisis.

In aiming personally for, and advocating for, a different way of living, I’m not trying to be a ‘lofty idealist’, I’m trying to make things better. No, I don’t know how jobs and life would change if we all adapted our way of living. Yes, I accept that there may be negative unintended consequences.

But we need to change. The negative consequences of not changing are going to be far worse and far more widespread.

And your assumption about me and my life is wrong - I live in London and as I acknowledged this does make things easier for me to live a vegan life. But I was born and brought up in a rural community and have family that are farmers. It was actually spending time on a relative’s dairy farm that made me decide to go vegan. I don’t live in an echo chamber. I don’t know any vegans outside of my husband and some of my immediate family members.

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 08:47

Correction - that should have been the two industries contributing the most to greenhouse gas emissions.

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 09:37

@MapleMay11

So while you might eat less soya than me, for example, as a meat eater you’re responsible for more soya production than me, because that cow you ate was fed soy. A lot of it. More than you’d need if you ate the soy directly. Because of energy loss.

That's a huge assumption to make. How do you know the person isn't sourcing meat from animals fed with alternative feedstuffs?

Yes, you’re right, I was talking about ‘average’ meat eaters and ‘average’ vegans. (Probably that’s not clear in that para, I only said ‘average’ in the previous para).

Obviously, you’re right, the actual impact depends on where you live, what you eat, how much you eat etc. So a meat eater who rears their own meat, grazes them local and ears meat occasionally will be responsible for less carbon emissions than a meat eater who eats meat three times a day from industrial farms.

But either way, because of the loss of energy at each trophic level - at each point of the food chain - meat consumption is less efficient and requires more crop than a plant based diet.

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 10:47

What about the health issues with soya? All those phytoestrogens? I have had breast cancer so am wary of eating too much food which has such a hormonal impact. I don't eat a lot of meat and source it carefully. One 500g pack of meat makes 8 main meals in our household. I don't eat meat for every main meal.

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 10:49

Equally a lot of the treatment I have had would not have been vegan.

1940s · 10/02/2021 10:56

I've never seen someone wearing one of these that would have inspired me to copy. Hideous, cruel and awash with cheap fake copies. Yuk

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 11:07

@pensivepigeon - completely understand the concerns around diet and cancer, however I’m not sure there’s any reliable evidence that soya is harmful, and in fact there’s evidence that it’s beneficial. There is a lot of evidence linking meat consumption with cancer.

Red meat and processed meat are recognised as a possible carcinogen by the WHO:

www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat

One study found that women that eat ‘large amounts’ of red meat (so obviously this doesn’t apply to all women who eat meat) are twice as likely to suffer hormone related breast cancer:

www.newscientist.com/article/dn10517-red-meat-linked-to-breast-cancer-risk/

Meat and dairy production can be made more profitable by the use of hormones (to increase milk production or growth) - and there are very real concerns about the impact of those hormones on humans.

There’s significant concerns about the health risks of eating meat - particularly red and processed meat.

On the other hand, there’s not this level of concern about soy. This page might be of interest:

www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/

The authors note that soya is safe to eat regularly, especially if it’s being used as an alternative to meat. And there’s a bit more detail under sub headings towards the end of the page on breast cancer - populations that have high soya consumption have lower levels of breast cancers.

I understand that it’s not all completely clear - and more studies are probably needed - but personally I’m confident that my vegan diet is healthy.

The China Study might be an interesting book to read if you’re interested in nutrition -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study

1940s · 10/02/2021 11:18

[quote PBJelly]@pensivepigeon - completely understand the concerns around diet and cancer, however I’m not sure there’s any reliable evidence that soya is harmful, and in fact there’s evidence that it’s beneficial. There is a lot of evidence linking meat consumption with cancer.

Red meat and processed meat are recognised as a possible carcinogen by the WHO:

www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat

One study found that women that eat ‘large amounts’ of red meat (so obviously this doesn’t apply to all women who eat meat) are twice as likely to suffer hormone related breast cancer:

www.newscientist.com/article/dn10517-red-meat-linked-to-breast-cancer-risk/

Meat and dairy production can be made more profitable by the use of hormones (to increase milk production or growth) - and there are very real concerns about the impact of those hormones on humans.

There’s significant concerns about the health risks of eating meat - particularly red and processed meat.

On the other hand, there’s not this level of concern about soy. This page might be of interest:

www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/

The authors note that soya is safe to eat regularly, especially if it’s being used as an alternative to meat. And there’s a bit more detail under sub headings towards the end of the page on breast cancer - populations that have high soya consumption have lower levels of breast cancers.

I understand that it’s not all completely clear - and more studies are probably needed - but personally I’m confident that my vegan diet is healthy.

The China Study might be an interesting book to read if you’re interested in nutrition -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study[/quote]
Brilliant. Phytoestrogens gets spouted all the time with no real understanding. As though vegans just exist on pure soy alone

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 11:31

I understand that it’s not all completely clear - and more studies are probably needed - but personally I’m confident that my vegan diet is healthy.

The good. As you say the evidence is inconclusive. You have made your choice and I have made mine. Smile

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 11:32

And I don't eat only red meat. Whereas soy would be a major protein source if I were vegan.

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 11:35

Concerning The China study. I'm not of Chinese ethnicity. As far as I am aware there are some specific genetic adaptations relating to different peoples and traditional diets.

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 11:35

@pensivepigeon soya isn’t the only source of vegan protein... but yes we all make our own choices and I’m firmly of the belief that for health, environment and animal welfare, a plant based diet is best. I understand you have a different perspective but it was interesting to have a chat with you!

PBJelly · 10/02/2021 11:40

@pensivepigeon

Concerning The China study. I'm not of Chinese ethnicity. As far as I am aware there are some specific genetic adaptations relating to different peoples and traditional diets.
Oh and I wouldn’t dismiss the entire study and the book on that basis. There are more similarities between populations than there are differences.
pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 11:45

But a difference that matters makes all the difference no matter how similarities there are. As I have said, I am content with my choice to eat meat.

1940s · 10/02/2021 12:01

@pensivepigeon

But a difference that matters makes all the difference no matter how similarities there are. As I have said, I am content with my choice to eat meat.
For someone seemingly basing this on scientific studies I'm surprised soy alarms you more than animal products on the body. Including dairy
pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 12:03

Be surprised. A lot of pretty amazing, surprising things have happened my life. I don't mind being surprising.

1940s · 10/02/2021 12:04

@pensivepigeon

Be surprised. A lot of pretty amazing, surprising things have happened my life. I don't mind being surprising.
Cringe
pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 12:07
Grin
wewillmeetagain · 10/02/2021 12:54

Apart from the ethical issues they are the epitome of chav!!! Think teenage boys in tracksuit and trainers hanging around in gangs! Moncler are the same!

VforVegan · 10/02/2021 12:59

@1940s, your comment about the soy and dairy made me think.

I think that people, generally, are resistant to change. I think generally, they prefer to do things in the way they’ve always done. And I think they prefer known risks to unknown risks.

So for example, not moving away from eating meat and dairy, even though the scientific community is in agreement that (1) we’re in a global climate change emergency and (2) meat and dairy are significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions, because there will be risks around a change in our diet and lifestyles (jobs in agriculture, farming communities will be impacted). Even though the risk of not changing seems very likely higher than the risk of changing, people prefer to do things in the way they’ve always done.

Or not moving away from eating meat and dairy, even though there’s very good scientific evidence to suggest that meat is a carcinogen and a vegan diet is likely to be healthier because there may be some risks around a vegan diet, but very little consensus and information about this.

The analogy that comes to mind:

You go camping every single year and always set your tent up in the same place. It’s next to the river and the views are great. This year, you arrive and the campsite owner suggest that you don’t use your usual spot by the river. The river is higher than it has ever been right now. And they’ve got very good evidence that the water levels are going to rise much more, because the Met Office has put out a severe weather warning. And they can see storms coming this way on the horizon. They’re worried about your safety if you camp there - there’s a very real risk of severe harm.

Now, there is another spot available. You have a look at it - it’s higher up next to the woods. The view is great but you probably still prefer the river - there would be some personal risk to you if you camp up here that you might not enjoy yourself as much as you don’t like the spot as much. The campsite owner also said that moving here doesn’t mean you won’t have problems - there’s still all that rain coming and although you won’t be flooded, you might get rained on. Moving to the spot in the woods might mean you still get wet. There’s also a theoretical possibility that there is a strange plant in the woods - someone reported that it releases something strange into the air which they breathed in and made them feel pretty sick, and although some biologists believe there could be some truth in that, there’s no real evidence of it - is a theoretical risk. It might happen. They’ve said though that it’s something you might be able to protect yourself from if you wear a mask walking into the deep woods. They don’t fully understand the risks around the plant.

So, both options probably have some risks. Do you continue with what you’ve always done and pitch up next to the river, knowing you’ll enjoy the views but also knowing the river is already flooding and there’s very good evidence that you will come to harm? Or do you pitch up in the woods, where there might be some rain, and there’s a theoretical but small possibility of a plant attack that you might be able to mitigate against?

I know which I would go for! Avoid the real, known risks and plan to mitigate the possible risks that might eventuate when you change your course. Avoid meat and milk because they’re known to be damaging to the environment but recognise that we need to plan to mitigate the potential unintended negative consequences of this on jobs, communities, and so on. Avoid red meat and milk because they’re known to be damaging to health, and recognise that a vegan diet may require some planning to mitigate the risks that might arise (eg low B12 - mitigate by taking supplements), and also accept that both diets probably have some risks - but one has very well documented serious risks and one doesn’t.

pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 13:10

think that people, generally, are resistant to change. I think generally, they prefer to do things in the way they’ve always done. And I think they prefer known risks to unknown risks.

Not so with me personally. I have taken known risks and unknown risks in my life.

I don't agree simply because I've a different interpretation of the science which is available. There have been mistakes in the past regarding what is considered a healthy diet due to outside largely economic interests. Science does not take place within a vacuum. I would be interested to hear what you think concerning Dr Jason Fung's findings on diet and disease.

VforVegan · 10/02/2021 13:22

@pensivepigeon

think that people, generally, are resistant to change. I think generally, they prefer to do things in the way they’ve always done. And I think they prefer known risks to unknown risks.

Not so with me personally. I have taken known risks and unknown risks in my life.

I don't agree simply because I've a different interpretation of the science which is available. There have been mistakes in the past regarding what is considered a healthy diet due to outside largely economic interests. Science does not take place within a vacuum. I would be interested to hear what you think concerning Dr Jason Fung's findings on diet and disease.

What specific findings or research do you want to discuss, what is it that you think is an issue?
pensivepigeon · 10/02/2021 13:24

What specific findings or research do you want to discuss, what is it that you think is an issue?

The research on saturated animal fats versus vegetable oils and the health implications.

merrygoround88 · 10/02/2021 13:25

@londonmummy1234 Max and Co parkas are toasty and IMO more stylish than CG

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