🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

I have a similar issue @Pupsiecola
I do a (virtual) spin class 6x a week and just feel I have to wash my hair because of the sweat. Plus my 5 month old dribbles all over it too 😂
Maybe hair training is my next project!

I have the dyson hairdryer and it is really good.

CGM CHAT Hi Bo, no cap is still in Ireland as Ireland isn't allowing post to Greece at the moment (but is allowing to other EU countries like Italy and Spain ) so I'm waiting. I did a modified rice treatment at weekend and put a damp towel in microwave as a cap substitute but it wasn't a very good one. Just as well it is so hot here - hottest May in Athens for 160 years I think they said.

I've been doing a lot of research and ordered 2 Jessicurl styling products and an innersense low poo. I also wanted to try Bounce Curl clump and define but it was sold out on naturalistic. I've not heard of Ouai. I also have the Biolage conditioner, Giovanni leave in and a Boucleme co wash (was very strange using a co wash. no lather at all and was convinced it was doing nothing but my hair felt so soft afterwards).

I've been taking photos of back of my hair after each wash day and new product/treatment (and usually day 2 hair as well) and it's very interesting to see the developments. Tying my hair in a loose pineapple works surprisingly well as night. I thought it would stretch out the curls that we pulled back but it doesn't.

I saw the photo of your hair Bo. Same colour as mine but I am more curly (although I think you look like you might be more curly (can I see some ringlets near your face?).

I do find the CGM fascinating. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it: I want to be able to leave it loose and wavy sometimes, and dry it straight other days and that seems completely impossible. I do already use a microfibre towel. I worry that tying it atop my head for sleep might give me a headache, but that might mean I can go without washing for 2-3 days instead of 1-2 because of how I sleep. I don't know if anyone follows bowelbabe on IG but people were saying her hair has been looking fabulous lately and she said on her stories she's experimenting with not washing it and she was on about day 6 at that point!!

It seems that the CGM hair products required are never ending, or rather finding the right ones is as tricky as skincare (of course, it would be). I don't have the mental capacity for it right now, but what I am going to do is try to find a decent leave in conditioner. I've never used one before. I was pretty certain my hair is 2A, and I just messaged my hairdresser and she also said 2A. So I shall do some reading and try to find something. I've got a tentative appointment for early July: by then it won't have been cut or coloured for 16 weeks so we'll have plenty to work with lol.

pupsie It was more training my hair, as I washed it less the time it took to start feeling gross and itchy and looking greasy was longer. Basically each time I took out a wash there would be a couple of weeks where on the extra day I would just have to deal with it being gross but now I can easily leave it 3 days (washing on day 4) and you wouldn't know.

CGM CHAT

I don't think I'm that much more curly, and if so, I don't want to be 😂 attached is from when it was drying and shows some of the front, the frizzy bit at the back is where I somehow missed applying product as usual 🤦. Still convinced the Ouai causes flash drying.

I have the occasional full ringlet but they're really the outliers and it's not like I'm in a transition of heat damaged hair to full on CGM healthy hair journey. My best guess is that I'm 2b/2c (my hair doesn't coil from the root) with the occasional 3a bit but I don't think I'm a full on 3a/3b in potential I've never heat treated it on a regular basis and I only recently took up the styling aspect of CGM as I want more consistent results in changing weather (and I still view the whole method as questionable, but for techniques and narrowing down products it's helpful).

I have bounce curl clump and cream on my list too, and now that I'm researching about individual proteins I'm interested in the light creme gel. Have you used it Client? I'm being put off by the instruction to use very little for fine hair, is it even a gel if you can't slather it on?

Ouai isnt CGM, It's a bit of a 'fashion' haircare brand. I think some products may be CGM by accident, the wave spray definitely isn't. I like it in summer, it's like a beach spray without the salt so it's not dull but it does lead to extra frizz which works with the beachy look.

I'm trying to not buy everything and experiment with what I still have so I just layered in the Ouai for It's protein. I've gone through far too many haircare products that I didn't like but persistently used to finish it up, at least conditioner can be used as shaving cream (though I don't do that much due to Lumea) but stylers are not that multi-purpose AFAIK. With CGM I'm trying not to buy anything I can't get a sample of first, it's not always the best indicator but it's somewhat more successful than buying on descriptions alone.

Forgot to attach picture

I haven't tried the gel

Client, how have you not 🤣

It was on my list to try...

I think you can do both Pupsie, it's just about balance but you'd have to be CGM-esque most of the time and then occasionally do the swishy blow dry, I think the other way round is more difficult. I just clarify after using something with silicones in (for blow drying) as it causes build up (usually, the peg ones tend to be fine though as they're water soluble). I consider it a reset, use a heavier deep conditioner/mask after and then carry on as normal, at most there's a minor bit of extra frizz.

I think there is a lot of theory in CGM but I also think a lot of it is based on very little. I think the strength in the method is much more about avoiding damage and styling techniques specific to curly hair, the skincare equivalent of stripping back and keeping things gentle with the right techniques, it's nothing revolutionary. The protein/moisture balance is interesting, the actives equivalent of skincare, I suppose, but it's a bit more experimental in nature than active skincare. I didn't pay any attention to protein/moisture until recently, only when I really got a handle of the techniques, order, products, etc. as I can now more or less predict what thing will do what, etc. and that did take a few months (I think I tentatively started late November). It's slow going and I do often question the sense of it all, cost, time, research, documentation, etc. but I'm slowly getting the sense that I've digested it all and it doesn't really require that much active thinking/investigating/trialling so much anymore.

Thanks @botemp! The Murad comes out as a biege fluid and sort of smooths things but doesn’t cover my freckles which is probably why I like it. I don’t like things with too much of a tint, but equally don’t want to look any paler than I already am!

CGM Chat

This is today after using the Phyto clarifying shampoo and usual Pureology Hydrate conditioner, then a spritz of Carol's Daughter leave in conditioner. (The only one I have, bought in the US. Won't RP as smell is overpowering). But I think it looks better than yesterday, and that's without the right products, and a decent cut. Need to figure out the colour too.

Thanks for explaining all that Bo.

Can anyone recommend a shampoo, conditioner and leave in conditioner to start with. I've spent the last hour researching but there's so much information out there and it would be good to try some highly recommended ones. I have used sth from Shea Moisture before but it was far too heavy and that seems confirmed with what I've read about for type 2a hair.

@botemp If you have a moment can I ask for some advice regarding my 10 and a half year old daughter? Anyone else is free to offer it too!

She has quite sensitive skin, and was diagnosed with Keratosis Pilaris a couple of years ago. It’s not a bad case of it, not very noticeable, but non the less she was diagnosed.

Dr prescribed us double base and a derm at her hospital appt prescribed us a W/W urea cream but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called, but it had exfoliating properties and contained mineral oil.

Anyway, now she is heading towards puberty i’m thinking double base is too heavy for her face? I’m wanting to get her in to a very simple skin care routine, rather than wash her face in the shower with shower gel

With her skin being so sensitive, I’m wondering if my LRP SPF would be suitable for her face? Usually we used Boots Soltan sensitive range but as she’s getting older i’m thinking LRP may be better?

I’m wondering if it’s a wise idea to have her cleanse her face with my Olay milk and wash it off and then apply the Cerave SA smoothing cream for dry bumpy skin (I’ll attach a pic) This seems similar to the one prescribed by hospital. I just don’t know if it’s suitable for her age/skin type? I’ll attach a pic of it.

Also, for context, I’ll attach a pic of her skin in the sun when we were away for new year. This was on her face and shoulders/upper back. It did calm down and go away after a few days and perhaps the chlorinated water played a part? She tans well in the sun, she goes a dark golden brown, but her skin is sensitive.

Any advice/suggestions appreciated

Watching responses to Pupsie's post, while also hiding debit card

Sorry for spamming re hair woes. I found these via the Curly Girl Method UK and they appear, largely because I like tea tree.

Trader Joe's Tea Tree

Sorry ilove!

The words "butter" and "gel" and "scrunching out" are freaking me out a little (child of the 80s here lol). Also lots of products assume curly hair is thick hair. My hair isn't thick. I just have a ton of regular hair.

Meant to be working. Just can't seem to get into it today.

@VillageFete sorry I do not have too much advice but Eucerin has a few urea creams for the face if you are looking for the face.

Mummying, I hope it was helpful because I'm still not sure between the two which would be the better choice 😂 I suppose Heliocare in terms of colour? I keep forgetting about it as it's not the easiest to get hold of, the colour science mineral SPF may actually be the most similar. Also liquidy slightly beigey that adapts to skin tone and not heavy coverage.

Fete was it Calmurid by any chance? LRP makes a lot of sunscreens and I don't always think they're the easiest to tolerate with sensitive skin. People really either love them or hate them. I'm in the major breakout camp with LRP and not crazy sensitive, just reactive really.

I'm hesitant with the Cerave smoothing cream on the face, especially since she's so young but she'll probably need something. Eucerin does a urea 5% face cream that would feel a bit 'safer' to me, at least to start with (I think the Cerave contains 10%) and use the Cerave on the body (as it is intended for). LRP Toleriane dermo cleanser would be a safe cleanser for her so long as she's not overly oily and you're not in a soft water area. Avene extremely gentle cleanser is an alternative that has a wider range of skin types and good for things like blackheads, less suited for drier skin. SPF for sensitive skin, the standard is usually mineral but I doubt you'll get her persuaded wearing that regularly with no real incentive. Probably a mineral/chemical combination may be the best solution. She doesn't need a high SPF so that lowers irritation too, potentially a Japanese SPF30 with a pump (so she'll use the right amount) or eltaMD SPF 46 could do the trick. I'd have to check the Japanese ones which are combination and which are all chemical. Paula's Choice may do a SPF30 of interest too. Ultrasun may be good as well. It somewhat depends on what you're willing to spend really. Clinique do a really nice mineral SPF 30 that would not take to much persuasion to wear but it's a teeny tiny bottle and not cheap.

CGM CHAT

Tbh I'd keep your debit card hidden away for now Pupsie, and kind of do the same detachment as you've had to do with skincare once and accept the miracle isn't necessarily in the product and going tabula rasa usually leads to more confusion than insight. I think the products you have now are vaguely CGM (carol's daughter LIC only the original one isn't CGM the rest are) so I'd just experiment with technique, using more LIC, doing your routine upside down from start to finish or just the LIC, combing through conditioners, squish to condish, plopping, diffusing etc. Just look up a few wavy hair people on YouTube to see their routines and try not to get distracted by all the product talk and then you have an idea what that technique should yield (keep in mind those YouTubers all tend to have indestructible hair, if I remember I'll link some later) and you can then assess which techniques work for you and what you'd like from new products, moisture, definition, both, etc.

I would also warn about hanging too much theory on hair type, not all 2A are the same. In general I find wavy hair needs a lighter touch and that doesn't gel entirely with the CGM in its strictest form. Density plus porosity plus hair type are a better guide to pick products for.

@Pupsiecola if you like tea tree then the Giovanni tea tree one is identical pretty much to the trader joes. Their direct leave in is the lightest leave in I've ever tried as well

Looks like color science now has a UK site but annoyingly only sells to the UK and Ireland it's surprisingly not outrageously expensive:

colorescienceuk.com/products/sunforgettable-total-protection-face-shield-spf-50

Thanks Bo. Appreciate what you're saying. The minimalist in me will stop me buying lots. But I do think I'd benefit from a leave in product and the CD is almost empty. The only hair products I have are Invisible Oil heat protector and an Aveda smoothing creme. Hair is low porosity with a strip of high porosity at the back btw.

Thanks @client. I have looked at the Giovanni too.

Interesting thought about buying habits whilst queueing at the tip. I'm pretty strong on the activist scale and not so much a reflector and so yes, I want to try something new, even though my natural preference is to have minimum number of products.

CGM CHAT

Pupsie, I don't think it's so much about buying excessive amounts of products, it's more that you're buying things on the 'hope of doing X' rather than knowing 'this will most likely do y for my hair/skin/whatever'.

I'm contemplating a leave in conditioner too at the moment but for example even though the Giovanni by description would tick a lot of boxes for me, I can tell from the ingredients list that it's mostly just watered down aloe, and aloe really doesn't do much for me, in the sense of what you expect a LIC to do. It would be too lightweight for me as it's then just a humectant which wouldn't be that much of an issue as I would use a curl cream over it but it raises the question how necessary that step then is so I look for other things in a LIC than just being lightweight. My shampoo and conditioner both contain a lot of aloe and it works well there for me but I would want a bit more in a LIC than just hydration.

I'll probably end up trying the curls blueberry bliss LIC and the kinky curly LIC, two very different properties from both. KK is moisturising but light (if used as LIC, I'll experiment with using it as a conditioner but potentially too heavy for that) and the BB is all about protein so should really help with defining curl pattern and giving body and potentially some shine.

Thank you @cinammonbuns and @botemp
Appreciated as always. Will take a look at that Eucerin cream.

The one prescribed (Just found it) was Nutraplus 10% WW cream in a blend of mineral oil.

To wash her face (sensitive and slightly dry) would a Cerave cleanser be ideal?