🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

Thanks @VillageFete !

Thanks @SallieSallow - could I ask what you see as the differences between the two cleansers aside from the foaming aspect? My skin is combination so I landed on the foaming one

agteacht I have combination skin too but it’s very much on the oily side of combo in summer, but in winter I get a lot of dry patches and flaking due to cold weather and central heating.

I like the foaming cleanser as a morning cleanse in summer as I do think it helps keep oiliness at bay plus it feels lighter and more refreshing than the hydrating one. The hydrating one is much more gentle and soothing so better for my winter skin, I use it year round as a second cleanse at night time as well.

I like both of them and the foaming cleanser like I said isn’t really all that foamy and I don’t think it’s anywhere near as harsh as other foaming cleansers aimed at oily skin, I just need something more hydrating in winter to help with dry patches.

@SophieLion here, swipe for the videos
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3vzd7lkPS/?igshid=i7swvuq7nkm0

@SallieSallow thank you that sounds very similar to my skin so I am going to copy your approach! I appreciate it x

I'd completely forgotten about the spreadsheet! I think we used a ridiculous amount of abbreviations then too.

Devacurl is pretty cheap if you order it from the US Amazon Sophie, I paid €24 for the wavemaker including shipping, locally it would have been €35 plus shipping. It was here within a week, bit of a useless anecdote now as they've temporarily halted international orders on Amazon.com but potentially useful in the future.

I drew the line at trying the bowl method, bowls in the shower just seems way too much effort and my hair is already too much effort.

@botemp sorry for not posting earlier, my toddler has been a bit unwell. Thanks so much for your response. I won't be using any of the two soaps after all as they contain animal products. A waste of money. I don't know how it skipped my mind to check if it was vegan, or at least vegetarian. My only excuse is that I am not used to buying soap.

@Everyone
I admire your patience and perseverance at using all those different products regularly with the alternating etc. May I ask how long does it take for you in a typical day to do your morning/evening routine? I don't use anything on my face most of the days and I feel proud if I manage to put on a moisturising cream on. I wasn't negligent to this point before kids but never anything regimented. Now my morning/ evening routine consists in brushing my teeth and washing my face :( Sad I know. I want to change but to something manageable. What should I aim for?

On a different note, I have wheatgerm, grapeseed and almond oil bottles. What can I use them for?

Thanks!

My routine takes less than 5 minutes, if that. I only do one more step than you by adding in a serum.

Is cruelty free important to you, as Cerave isn't by the stricter criteria (they sell in China so allow 3rd party testing and L'Oréal is the parent company). It's not vegan either, not sure if it's vegetarian, bit difficult to discern as sometimes something like hyaluronic acid is synthesised in a lab other times it comes from cock combs.

Oils can be useful if you have dry skin but they're not necessarily a replacement for a moisturiser. Grapseseed oil can be used as a cleanser but it's somewhat astringent so it's not for all skin types. Almond oil generally good for sensitive skin, wheat germ I think can be beneficial for hair. Provided they're all fresh though, you don't want to be using rancid oil.

That made me laugh ClientQ!! Sorry but too funny!!! Plus I thought that we were supposed to apply products to hair that is wet but not dripping?! It's all very confusing....

Bo, do you not have an issue with import duties/customs when you order from the US? I ordered via amazon uk once and thought product was coming from Sweden. Turns out they sent it from US. I had to pay something like US$20 but got it refunded because had ordered on amazon uk and seller said they covered customs on the off chance they were picked up.

No, the duties are prepaid and taken care of by Amazon so it only tacks on the VAT of 21% (or equivalent in Greece). The wavemaker was under the duties/tax threshold hence why it works out so cheap, it was something like $15 for the product and the rest was shipping. If you're buying multiple things it sometimes works out cheaper to order separately. Under €22 (IIRC) it's duty and tax free, under €150 it's duty free (but you pay VAT) and over €150 you pay both (assuming I'm getting my terminology right). The high VAT bill you get unexpectedly at the door is usually down to the admin costs, our post services charge something like €16 for that alone. I think Amazon may charge an admin fee too but it's not that crazy high.

@SophieLion it's really hair dependant I think! My products go on dripping wet hair and then I squish and squish so water comes out
It's a weird method but it was a total game changer for me and saved me from seeing £££ gel slide down the plug hole
Some hair does better with product on damp hair or wet but not dripping... who would have curls

You're a good marketer ClientQ! In fairness though the end result for the girl in the video is gorgeous. Might try applying product to dripping wet hair tomorrow. Used to do that but it took hours to dry so started following the method used by Manes by Mel (although her curls are completely different to mine). Do you diffuse at all?

Thanks for the info Bo. Had a look on amazon.com but unfortunately they are not shipping any of the DC products to greece (or the UK) right now. Will have to investigate once all this is over.

I do, my hair takes over 24hrs to air dry!

24 hours to dry is what puts me off! I will experiment today.

Perhaps I need to start making a spreadsheet of curly girl hair products

Oh the 24hrs is no matter what I do to it, it was like this before CG v v low porosity
Diffusing I do for 45 mins or so

@botemp thanks for getting back to me. CetaveUK is vegan, I checked.
If it takes you 5 minutes, I'd love to know about your morning and evening routine if you don't mind please. Any weekly/ monthly treatments? I have a sensitive combination skin that tends to become dry in winter. My body's skin is dry and sensitive.
The oils are not rancid of course. They are good quality oils from Holland and Barrett.
Thanks!

Doesn't low porosity mean it doesn't absorb as much water ClientQ? And wouldn't that mean
It dries quicker? Or am I completely confused (highly likely)?

Been researching curly hair products all day and looking at ingredients and decided my hair needs protein. I ordered the following products (bearing in mind what I already have):

Hairfinity Strengthening Amino Masque
Boucleme Curl cleanser
Giovanni direct leave in conditioner

I hope I'm not derailing the thread with all this hair talk (I'm a bit obsessed at the moment). Am very happy to discuss skincare!

Hi I have been reading some threads over the last couple of days and wondered if anyone may be able to offer me some advice please?
I am currently mid thirties with no skin care routine. Lately I have been noticing more lines becoming defined but I am now wondering if this is dehydration as skin is dehydrated. I am looking to hydrate my skin mainly and then look at anti-aging.

I have sensitive skin (mostly some red reactions to some products, occasional dermatitis) and suffer with psoriasis, although this is currently rarely on my face - only usually above or below eyes - and have had phototherapy in the past. I suffer with general redness.

I am thinking of getting a cleanser, moisturiser and Spf (possibly eucerin?) to start with and wondered if anyone could recommend any products to start with?

I then thought I would introduce and try the Superdrug hydrating serum or the Vichy mineral 89, followed by timeless vitamin c and the lrp redermic r depending on how the skin goes, does this sound sensible? Thanks for any help you can offer, feel like I have learnt quite a bit over the last few days but no where near enough.

@botemps

Just reading your posts about KP which I also have.

I note you say don't use soaps. Are all soaps bad for your skin?

I currently use MooGoo goats milk soap which is actually mainly oils. I also use their Milk Wash which seems to be a mix of coconut and sugar "cleansers"? Are these bad for your skin?

Am currently using scrubby gloves on arms (and have done for years) where KP is and thighs for ingrowing hairs. Sounds like this is a bad idea 😙 I find them quite effective on the KP but doesn't get rid completely.

Yes, sorry Sophie, I thought I had mentioned they'd halted international delivery ATM but I guess I forgot. Far be it from me to police the thread, and as far as I'm concerned scalp care is still skincare but on another thread I usually preface any curly girl stuff with CGM CHAT so anyone else can easily skip over it. Happy to do that here too.

@Sakuratu didn't realise the UK branch was vegan, good to know. I don't do any special treatments, I occasionally add in things if I have need for it due to weather changes (moisturiser or a hydrating serum) but otherwise it's pretty steady.

AM
Cleanse, Vitamin C serum, SPF

PM
Night 1, Double cleanse, prescription retinoid
Night 2, Double cleanse, acid exfoliator, antioxidant serum, moisturiser

Welcome @Littlemissindecisiveagain, I'd consider a bit between prioritising hydrating and sensitivity issues as hyaluronic acid can be quite sensitising so I'm always cautious about suggesting someone with truly sensitive skin to go out and buy it. Indeed labs makes a pretty good hydrating serum without HA (which are pretty rare) but there was talk of discontinuing it, so not sure if it's still there. You'd be a good candidate for using thermal water and locking it in as well. Do you have a moisturiser you like, for drier atopic type skin that seems to be the product of most importance.

Similarly vitamin C in the non derivative form (and some of the newer derivatives) can be very sensitising, so again, I'd be cautious and perhaps look at alternatives instead. A few posts back I've discussed some of the alternatives for sensitive skin as you do risk your psoriasis flaring up by pushing at the sensitivities.

LRP redermic- generally a good starter retinoid but it's another case of, with your skin probably better to contemplate gentler derivatives. Better to start gentle and move towards stronger versions than the other way round.

@MiniMum97, yes generally soap is not ideal for skin. Skin is lightly acidic and soap is alkiline so it disturbs that balance, it works thoroughly to strip everything off but it works a little too effectively and leaves little of the biome that keeps skin healthy behind. There is a bit of confusion with soap as not every bar is soap. For example Dove is not soap, it's a solid cleansing bar which tend to have an ideal pH but everyone thinks of it as 'soap'. Soap is fine for pits and around (not on or in) bits (and below large breasts) as these areas of the skin are naturally very acidic and can handle the disturbance of pH by rebalancing quickly enough and soap is really effective at killing the bacteria that like to dwell there and cause BO, while shower gels and other cleansers with a balanced pH struggle. It also seems to be more effective at cutting through deodorant buildup.

Thanks @botemp. I tend to use moogoo soap bar for pits (so ok there it seems 😊) and milk wash for body.

How do you tell a soap bar from a no soap bar?

It has to contain lye in the INCI, without it you can't make soap. Potassium and/or Sodium hydroxide, usually. Although, I think there is also legislation that you can't market something as soap (including liquid) unless saponifaction has taken place, so if it says soap, it should be soap, eg. Dove is called 'beauty bar' IIRC but I do think a lot of (online) resellers tend to categorise it as soap, or otherwise mislabel it.

Thanks @botemp for taking the time to reply, it’s really appreciated. I’ve been back and copied your post so I can refer back to it when I move on to the specific stages.
I don’t really use anything much apart from aveeno as a body lotion. I’ve been using Elemis face cream but I feel like it’s quite expensive for what it is and want to get something a bit more affordable. Think I’m finding it difficult to pick a brand to start with to try a cleanser and moisturiser. I will be getting some thermal water though so thank you for this also

Hello LittleMissindecisive, I think Bo is spot on (as usual ) about sensitive skin and actives. I also have very sensitive skin and have had to build up my actives very slowly and one-by-one. I have the Timeless vitamin C and am only using it twice a week at the moment as I started to get a rash (and then it takes 4 days of absolutely nothing on my skin to get it balanced again). Sometimes I cut vit C out all together.

I'm using tret every other night now and it took me months to build up to this.

CGM chat I'm excitedly waiting for my new products and been doing lots of reading and research - it's also very scientific like skincare. Realising protein/moisture balance very important. Thinking to order a thermal heat cap for deep conditioning - does anyone have one?

CGM/Bo - I managed to order my products from
Lookfantastic which is just as well as not sure whether to get Deva Curl again after all the negative press.

Hi @SophieLion, thank you for the advice, I am definitely going to take it all very slowly and see how I get on. I’ve just ordered an spf to try as a start. Can I ask what serums you started with in the morning if you don’t mind? Thanks