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Royal style: we want more salwars and we're not sari about it!

987 replies

QueenOfTheAndals · 18/10/2019 11:00

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TokyoSushi · 20/10/2019 21:17

Watching the H&M documentary, I'm not sure what I think yet...

FiveTwoFaster · 20/10/2019 21:18

Very very few people could understand how it is to be super rich without having to earn your wealth - combined with early public adulation (for no reason) and to then have it snatched away at your happiest point. Prince Harry has been loved by the press and public his entire life, even when he must have been so unhappy and fucked up. At the point where the press who made his entire family’s life really rough - yet his coverage has been positive irrespective of his behaviour - he gets punched in the face almost daily, despite the landmarks of happiness like marrying the love of your life and having a gorgeous baby. He needs therapy and for Camilla to pull him up and remind him it can change. She had abuse for decades and at her wedding to the love of HER life - extremely unpleasant things dragged up. She is one of the few people - together with his father who seems kind and flawed and loving, who can genuinely empathise. MM has pointed out that she has been subject to some form of racism her whole life, and she is now getting it on a national scale. But it’s a magnified version at what should be a happy time. Fergie could help her. They need time out. And the 6 weeks up to Christmas I hope they vanish with their loved ones and have total privacy. William and Kate get total privacy. I bet they private jet all over the world on glam holidays and we don’t get told. I don’t want to know where Meghan and Harry go, I just want them to do nothing, sort themselves out and come back keen to do the smiling and cutting ribbon thing, not ready to Make War on the press. It will fail. Utterly.

TokyoSushi · 20/10/2019 21:27

A very wise post @FiveTwoFaster

I agree that it's just not working out at the moment. They need to sort themselves out in private and then decide is this what they want to do. If it is they need to see it as work and act professionally. If it isn't, then they need to take themselves out of it, perhaps go and live in the US and make their own way.

I fully understand that's a very simplistic view of something far more complicated.

ElspethFlashman · 20/10/2019 21:34

I didn't think h and m did get papped in the UK

They don't. At all.

The comparisons Harry is making to his mother is ridiculous. Now there's someone who was hounded in private. Every time she went to the gym, every time she walked up Ken High Street....

H+M are never papped in the UK. They lead intensely private lives. Nobody even knows where they went on honeymoon for gods sake. Harry is constantly trying to paint them as victims just like his Mum. It's really poor.

thisenglishlife · 20/10/2019 21:47

Great points @FiveTwoFaster

WineOrGinOrBoth · 20/10/2019 21:52

Loved the footage of the Pakistan trip. Thank you for posting.

Wetdogloveshubert · 20/10/2019 22:09

How on earth do we know if they get papped or not? They could be pulling injunctions constantly and we wouldn't know necessarily.

At times I felt uneasy watching the documentary tonight. The interviews felt indulgent and sycophantic, but at other points helpfully pointed. Coming in the same week as the Charles documentary is interesting - will that be much more along the historic lines of his other documentaries?

It was fun seeing the outfits and visits again, but the editing won't have helped the tabloid headlines tomorrow. But we the public are lead too easily by headlines.

pastaparadise · 20/10/2019 22:38

hmmm... just watched the last half of the documentary. I'm usually very supportive of the rf and h&m, but feel quite pissed off with them now. I think it's disloyal of harry to more or less confirm a rift with william - that will just fuel more speculation re what it's about. He could have predicted he would be asked about it if he made this sort of doc.

And whilst i have a lot of sympathy for their recent treatment by the tabloids, i think complaining about it will backfire massively. Most people wouldn't even realise if they took 6 weeks off if they did it quietly - as a pp said, it's not like they have normal jobs. But i think publicly moaning won't garner them much sympathy.

FiveTwoFaster · 20/10/2019 22:43

I thought the Prince Charles documentary was time to cheer people up / distract them in a cosy way from Brexit! Shows how naive I am!

paradyning · 20/10/2019 23:25

They do get papped here. We've discussed their very outfits on this thread. We've seen them leaving an apothecary and MM leaving a restaurant with a new employee. It's bit true to say that they are not papped.

BlingLoving · 20/10/2019 23:38

They do get papped. But more importantly, the sense I get is that they simply don't go out as much anymore. So frankly, no wonder they feel like they are existing not living.

I'm actually quite shocked at the blaze attitude to the press. "Yes yes, the tabloids are terrible but they won't change so suck it up." It really resonates as I have just been reading a chapter in Invisible Women where she talks about how often women's issues are not seen as central and that they are a distraction and women should really just stop whining because there are so many other terrible things happening in the world.

And the blatant lies told by media about them is outrageous. Also don't understand how on Earth the "handling of her" family is all their fault. I felt from the start that the fact Harry hadn't met her dad was a clear sign she didn't have a great relationship. Will never forget him saying that he told Harry he'd support their marriage as long as he doesn't beat her. What a peach!

Lunde · 21/10/2019 00:48

I feel sorry for H&M they seem to have thrown themselves headlong into a number of major lifechanging decisions from dating, early engagement, moving country (for M), big wedding into a Royal position, and a baby in less than a year without really thinking about how their day to day lives would be. Then they seem to have thrown themselves into big projects and tours shortly after the birth of Archie and they both seem burned out.

I think Harry jumped in because he was desperate to settle down and start a family - but I think that starting a family has led to his unresolved grief at losing his mother dominating his life, and leading to him lashing out. I don't think that Royal life has been exactly what Meghan expected either. I think her expectations was for a super A-list Celebrity lifestyle - with tiaras! I don't think she had really thought about how it would be to live a scrutinized life - where while you technically can afford £25,000 for an evening gown it doesn't mean that you should. I don't think she has really understood the difference between Hollywood A list and a Constitutional Monarchy. I really think that their US PR company is not helping and that both of them need to take some time of to avoid burnout and seek professional help. I would also urge them not to try and have the perfect "social media" lifestyle as well. I think that H&M may have got themselves into a bit of a bunker mentality with the press trying to keep so much "secret" but it seems that it increases the activity - it is harder with their roles to manage that Hollywood PR trick of controlling the narrative so that the press only report what you want. The pressure must be enormous.

The press has been dreadful as well - trying to stir up stories using her disordered family and (possibly personality disorder father) as well as the implicit ugly racism in many of the tabloid articles. On the other hand they do need to realise that they will get called out for hypocrisy such as preach environmentalism while flying in on a private jet - I think that this may be an issue where they are expecting "Hollywood" treatment rather than "London" reporting - A list stars rarely get called out for doing these things. Other Royals have been slated in the press. Remember that Fergie was mocked for her weight (Duchess of Pork) and freebie holidays and Andrew's "Airmiles Andy" nickname. W&K have had a few run ins with the press as well - like when a paparazzi jumped out of the bushes at baby George playing in a park - W&K were slated by many on MN for being "entitled" and "overreacting".It is not a unique situation.

I can also remember a few years ago the class criticism that Kate was subject to because her mother was former Cabin Crew ... and shock horror ... a waitress in the air. K&W were also heavily criticised for their decision to live at Anmer Hall in Norfolk for a quiet few years of family life with W working 20 hours/week as a local air ambulance pilot. I have always said, and said so at the time, that it was a sensible move to live in the middle of nowhere where they were rarely papped was a good move when George and Charlotte were little and could attend local nurseries. I think that W&K's way of dealing with the press was also a lot smarter in many ways. I know that M&H wanted to keep everything very secret around the birth - yet what they created was a media frenzy around the birth whereas W&K produced the birth certificate and did a stroll for the press outside the hospital when leaving ... and everyone left them alone. Same with the Christenings - they did a little stroll with the baby outside the church and named the godparents and cut off all of the media frenzy.

Lunde · 21/10/2019 01:19

One thing that the British RF should consider is the training and support that new members receive. Perhaps there should be an introduction course so help royal outsiders understand what they are getting into.

In Sweden those that marry into the Royal Family and carry out Royal engagements must attend "Prince or Princess school" as they call it. Daniel was expected to attend for a long time - 1½ years. They set up an individual plan with mentors and 1:1 classes that covered things like:

  • the workings and administrations of the Royal Court and Royal Household
  • Swedish history - royal, military and cultural traditions
  • political science - parliament, county and local government and administration. International political issues
  • Diplomacy
  • Royal etiquette
  • languages

CPV also attended a specially formulated programme as the future Queen - Swedes are very keen on education and work experience

  • University courses in Sweden, US and France
  • internships in agriculture, forestry and the Swedish Embassy in Washington
  • a special programme at the Swedish Parliament to understand the work of parliament
  • completed basic training in the Swedish military
  • completed the Diplomatic Service's Diplomat program

Sweden takes training to work as a Royal very seriously - perhaps it is something that would help the UK.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 21/10/2019 06:09

I think Kate has an informal Duchess school during her long wait to marry William.
She also survived the “Wisteria sisters” and “Doors to Manual”
Every single married in Royal has gone through this run in with the press. The quicker they buckled down and worked; the sooner or has gone away.
Meghan herself has admitted that she didn’t know what she was letting herself into. It’s pretty fundamental that with privilege comes responsibility.
The bigger concern is Harry. You can see his 12 year old self “ the Press killed my mum”
For him; that is an unalterable truth. He has gone to War with the press and it comes from a visceral place.
They absolutely need to drop out of public life for a time. Do good work in Africa. Harry needs some more counselling; that is for sure. They both need to step away from the social media and PR firms.

I actually think Harry also needs some one on one time with his birth family. HM and Prince Phillip are not going to be around for long. At frogmore; surely they could see them every day.
It’s really quite sad to see both of them cracking up and going about trying to heal by going on the attack.

Rhubarbisevil · 21/10/2019 06:51

The Swedish model sounds brilliant lunde. I suspect the BP establishment dishes out “advice” to the newcomers. It’s been generally acknowledged that Kate was weaned in gently whereas Meghan, I suspect, and I like Meghan, said Oh no, I’m used to the spotlight, I can manage. And she clearly can’t. Philip and Anne will have come down on Harry like a tonne of bricks, Charles is remote.... actually, do you ever see Harry and Camilla close together? Must google...

Kate, I’m sure, goes off to her mum for Brocklesbury House Rules and knows that any rant, tears and outpourings never EVER leave the house, whereas Meghan doesn’t have this. Kate’s inner voice will be saying “Be like the Queen Mum. Never complain, never explain, shut up and smile” whereas Meghan’s inner voice is saying “wtf? Downward dog and gong bath”

I hope the press leave H&M alone in the USA. God, is it only 6 weeks to Christmas? Coats......

SeaRabbit · 21/10/2019 07:00

I can well understand that M didn't know what she was letting herself in for, and she's been through such a lot in a short space of time, I have a lot of sympathy for her. It does seem worse for her because of the underlying racism. I wonder if she reads the tabloids - maybe a good starting point is not to.

QueenOfTheAndals · 21/10/2019 07:07

Fairly balanced piece in the Guardian about the documentary.

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StartupRepair · 21/10/2019 07:11

An hour on Google and a chat with Kate would have given Meghan some idea of what the UK tabloid press are like. I think so much of her earlier life was about getting known and courting attention that she was unable to believe that such a thing as too much attention exists.

Becles · 21/10/2019 07:20

So many people suggesting that Meghan knuckle down and appreciate the responsibility of the job.

Anyone care to explain how she hasn't? I mean she's done engagements since the ring went on her finger. After the wedding did 2x major tours, had a baby, edited vogue and continued involvement in charities that seemed to include her full involvement and provided tangible changes and impact beyond the usual posing.

What tips could we give her to improve her job performance? Let's hear it...

AppleKatie · 21/10/2019 07:26

By knuckle down people mean stop speaking.

It took Kate what felt like forever before she spoke in public.

Rightly or wrongly there is a feeling that royals should earn their right to talk with several years of handshaking and ribbon cutting.

BlingLoving · 21/10/2019 07:28

Excellent questions Beccles.

BertrandRussell · 21/10/2019 07:39

“I think her expectations was for a super A-list Celebrity lifestyle - with tiaras!”
I’m always puzzled when people say things like this. She seems to have started her royal life with an expectation of wanting to work hard and “do good”. All her charities are non glamorous, her non working wardrobe is low key-expensive, of course, rich people wear expensive clothes!. But whatever criticisms can be made of her, I don’t get the flashy lifestyle one.

megletthesecond · 21/10/2019 07:56

It bugs me when people comment on how great it is that she's re-wearing clothes now. No shit Sherlock.

Last year she was putting together a polished, new royal wardrobe from scratch and pregnant for the first time. No one would be able to do that without spending a fair amount. I was constantly topping up in Primark and H&M during my first pregnancy as my shape changed. Of course she ended up buying lots and having some hits and misses on the way

megletthesecond · 21/10/2019 07:59

That was a pro Megan rant in case I wasn't clear.

QueenOfTheAndals · 21/10/2019 07:59

@megletthesecond Suddenly her penchant for wearing non-maternity clothes during her pregnancy makes sense. If you're going to spend £££ then you may as well buy clothes you can wear after you give birth!

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