Les Parisiennes de Mamansnet: Orangutans in Paris make for poor gondoliers

[botemp]

The sunshine might be fading from our passion fruit punch but we're looking forward to what autumn will bring.

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Bo, in 1974, I went with my grandparents to Northampton (the centre of UK shoe makers, then and now) and bought a pair of bright baggy cognac boots, with heels I wouldn't countenance at 62, in the most fabulous glace calf leather. I wore them out, but mourn them still.

I've assumed there's a reason why only the platform boots have survived from the 70s into the vintage shops, Xing, the fabulous pairs all got, rightfully, worn to beloved death. Can you blame me for wanting some for years now?

I too suffer from the fantastical items defect, Hairy, I want things before they're mainstream, they have wonderful exciting lives in my mind but the bloody things will never reveal themselves and when they do finally become mainstream I'm usually over it...

JonSnow, the most worrying thing WRT creative education and occupations, is that so many state schools are reducing their place in the curriculum.

Increasingly, it is only fee paying schools who teach them thoroughly, because they need time and resources, so the pipeline of people into creative professions is limited to the obsessives and the wealthy. I have no problem with obsession, as I rather think time and effort are essential to reach the standard required for genius to be liberated from its chrysalis, but in the last 20 years, I've seen so many trust fund babies lauded as creative prodigies that I take most of the sightings with a large pinch of salt.

Back in a past life I was a contractor within the IT department for a large broadsheet. It was very much staffed by those with connections, with a lot of sons / daughters of lords etc doing work experience.

I spent a lot of time with the post team due to my project, the fashion desk had much more exciting deliveries than I did!

Interning there didn't seem so tough, but then when you have money it doesn't matter if you aren't being paid.

@botemp just a general recommend rather than specifics would be appreciated

Xing, I'm a little too young to remember the original, but I had a copy of the 'Cheap Chic' book, given to me by my very stylish grandmother when I was 14(ish), so in the mid-80s.

It's an interesting article, but it's not saying anything new. All creative industries have so many people that are desperate to work in them that salaries can be peanuts or goods in kind.

It's always been that creatives need sponsors or independent income.

Plus ça change.

Which is one of the reasons I work in tech now. Women are extroidinary enough without anyone caring what they wear.

I don’t think I read Cheap Chic at the time Xing - although I was definitely around. But I remember buying the first More Dash than Cash book (Vogue) as a Christmas present for someone and keeping it for myself. That was probably early 80s though.

I suspect internships might be one reason why there’s so little creativity in fashion at the moment - not because wealthier people are sny less creative but because the system restricts entry to such a small pool. If they’re not careful the industry will end up so inbred it’ll eat itself. I’m not a very techy person, as you can see from my photography skills, but it strikes me that there’s far more creativity going on in tech than in fashion.

It’s happening in journalism too which is seriously worrying for us all.

Sorry if I’m repeating points already made - I’m skim reading.

As much as I loathe social media, I do see it as one of the last vestiges for creatives to build something outside the established systems. It's probably why I get so worked up when corporate interests intermingle and take over there.

It's interesting what you're saying about creativity in tech, Flo, I think if I were to choose a study now, I'd be looking into AI. I've been saying for quite some time that the subconscious impact architecture has had on daily life has slowly been shifting into digital realms.

Looks like Cheap Chic was put into print again a few years ago and it has a lot of noteable fans:

www.google.nl/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/09/20/fashion/cheap-chic-manifesto-of-a-fashion-revolution-is-back.amp.html

It's available on Amazon, also on Kindle, I'm assuming it's a book you'd want in print though? I'll have to have a nose at my father's first though, would seem like a book my mother would have bought.

Yup my impression is that tech is grabbing a lot of the most creative young people at the mement. I know I’ve been saying it for a while but I don’t think they’re really that interested in fashion.

Preens at younger self for spotting a future classic! Thanks for the NYT link, Bo and good luck hunting through your dad's shelves; if successful and in good condition, then the book could help fund your perfect boots.

The remark about Cheap Chic's lack of interest in physical perfection and body shape was very much in keeping with the spirit of the mid-70s. However, the norm was for people to be thinner than today. Looking at PILs' old ciné footage of Canterbury High Street, there's hardly a car in sight but lots of bikes. The women carry bags which obviously contain family groceries and daily shopping. Most supermarkets weren't out of town with vast car parks.

The Seventies were often uncomfortable to experience, but great for culture: music, art, fiction and fashion. Is it regarded as outstanding for architecture too? (Only the Beaubourg comes to mind as distinctively from that era.) But while UK unemployment was massive, the not-over-generous benefits were just enough for young artists to get by as long as they were thrifty and ingenious. State patronage.

I think the arts were pretty much subsidised by the dole until the mid 80s or thereabouts - and while much of what came out was self indulgent twaddle, it did mean talented people with no money or connections could get a foot in.

Plus I know several people who legitimately lived rent free in London in the 80s through housing co-ops. You could still set out to seek your fortune whereas now you need a fortune in the first place. I do wonder what will happen to London longer term. I know other cities have a similar problem e.g Manhattan but they have cheaper and better transport so you can realistically live quite a long way out and travel in to work.

Flo, I think fashion, when it comes to clothes, is just too ephemeral for today's youth, they've grown up with 52 seasons in a year as fast fashion is their norm, alongside instant coverage which lack the lasting impact that a fashion magazine spread can have. Their expression of self in external markers seems to be anchored, interestingly enough, in (semi) permanent modifications, from tattoos and brightly coloured hair to injectables and hyperreal makeup.

Xing, I think for architecture the seventies aren't that defined or recognised as outstanding aside from a few experimental architects but they didn't have lasting influence. That's not unusual in periods of extended economic downturn and architectural canon. It is an interesting era from an interior architecture perspective, specifically in the domestic sphere. The modernist principles set out in CIAM, less the ideological ones and more the pragmatic approach of efficiency, gained popularity because it was cost effective and systematic. Ceiling heights were taken down to save on heating costs, people started eating in the kitchen again instead of a seperate dining room to, again, save heating another space. The oil crisis exposed the inefficiency of old buildings and it opened them up to modern concepts like open plan living and the prefabricated design that went with it, and probably birthed the DIY movement as we know it today.

I think the seventies were such a creative decade because creativity tends to flourish best with many constraints, it wasn't a choice, you had to get creative.

Rosie, sorry forgot to respond previously, pointed toe ankle boots, I occasionally wear pointed toe courts as they're completely covered except for the toe so I don't feel that odd wearing them, flat pointed toe mules or my Celine like leather slip on trainers which have a thick sole. I've also been contemplating some low block heel pointed toe slingbacks. Almond toe ankle boots can also work but round toe looks too stumpy to my eyes. Because I'm on the shorter side I do prefer some sort of lift to keep the balance of the wide legs flattering.

Elle, if the Atlein dress doesn't work out, this dress popped up on my UW app, it's 100% silk and a size EU36. It felt very bridesmaid to me, not sure if that's a positive or a negative. Not sure if you can order from abroad but otherwise I could forward it.

In other news, props to the Mango PR team as this single image in my inbox has prompted me to come darken their doors again. Surprisingly the coat is mostly (recycled) wool. I think I'll try to pop in tomorrow afternoon.

Interesting talking about the 70s aesthetic in architecture, because I've had my IFLF x Uniqlo order for a week now and I've worn every single thing, immediately. I bought two georgette blouses in cream and navy, a viscose blue spotty blouse with a Peter Pan collar and pleats down the front, and a blue flannel shirt. They all seem to have a very 70s vibe to me - gathers at the shoulders, blousy sleeves, long enough to really need tucking in neatly. I'm very happy with all of it and may go back for more...!

Here's the blue spotty blouse, which I wore to work today with a red lip, navy blue blazer and silk scarf. It's basically the exact same pattern as the bottom right blouse on this vintage sewing pattern...!!

I was a 70s child, there was generally a lot more creativity in the sense that my mum and grandmothers knitted or sewed a lot of our clothes, we grew a lot of our fruit and veg, in fact, my dad built our greenhouse. I don't think that was particularly unusual. Come the 80s it had changed, both my parents were in full time work and much more stuff was bought, including regular holidays to France.

On the clothes front, I have had my first charity shop trip now the children are back at school. I got a charcoal, wool jigsaw blazer for £6, good for dressing down or if I need something smarter for planned return to work. It needs a couple of stitches on the lining near the collar, but that's it. Also, a pair of Great Plains, wide, grey, linen pinstripe trousers for £7.50, I blame all those lovely trouser pics I've seen on the thread. I might even wear it with a belt, I can't believe I'm returning to belts and tucked in waists.

Xiao sounds like a good haul. I haven't checked out the Uniqlo stuff yet.

I'm wearing a chunky, silver cuff over my cotton/silk knit top, trying to channel those cuffs bo linked to.

Ah McCalls - that takes me back. I can still remember getting in a rage with a Simplicity pattern which was anything but.

Nice finds Xiao and quirky.

Agree about constraints bringing out creativity. Maybe that’s why the most inventive style I see round here is invariably worn by teenage Muslim girls who push the rules to the limit. There’s one I often see who wears these ultra high headscarves - I don’t know if it’s all hair or sone kind of towering headdress underneath but it looks amazing.

Nice blouse, Xiao. I have a black spotty one, I've been wearing loads, mine's collarless but quite similar.

Ohh, I do like those boots Bo, but yes, a bit ouch on the price.

Brora stole had its first outing today as it's very chilly up North, also just got these Joseph gabardine leggings which are amazing at holding everything in and give a lovely clean line.

Love the shirt Xiao.

You're right, I don't think the tech crowd are that interested in fashion Flo, whenever I go to meetings with a lot of tech folks

it's a very utilitarian style of dress that seems to be the norm.

I'm also dithering over this jacket, I really (probably) don't need any more jackets but feel the need for a bit of velvet in my life. Hmmm.

No picture but today's outfit has got comments on looking stylish from three separate people - wearing black ankle boots, Top Shop utility trousers, slim fit Zara plain black jumper half tucked in, and Mango shell bead necklace worn long rather than choker length.

Enough of the self-congratulation! Love the Brora stole, Hairy.

I used to have a 60s dark green velvet jacket when I was a teenager that I absolutely loved but I've never found one since with such a good cut. Or I've got fatter. Or both.

Green velvet sounds ace (especially if you love techno - apologies for the obscure reference if you don't).

Might chance it with the jacket, I think it could work well with a few outfits.

Had a nice few deliveries today, love the skirt and jeans but am umming and ahhing about the boots (I got them in burgandy rather than navy), think they'll work with some things though so will probably stay.

Ahem, burgundy, my phone can't spell...

@hairyhands The stole looks great. Also loving the purchases.

Always nice to get compliment @Catherine - outfit sounds great. I remember that necklace being really lovely.

Xiaoxing – shirt looks great and I can see how it’d get a lot of wear, the style suits you.

botemp interesting reading about the drivers for 70s architecture. That dress does look good. I know you’ve told me before, but what is the UW app? I’ve tried googling various combinations, but nothing is showing up for me! EU36 is probably too neat for me in any case. No sign of the Atlien skirts and tops. I remember that Yoox was slow from last time, but it’s been 6 days!

Tried the ton sur ton idea today, close up of the bits and full length shot with winter white coat. I’m not sure it’s very Parisian, it’s lacking any real cool factor, but I had an industry lunch so best to play it safe. I also don’t usually stand in such a contrived way, but was trying to make the dress visible!

Saw this Cos top on Insta and like the knotted effect, but doesn't appear to be on the website sadly.