Les Parisiennes de Mamansnet: Orangutans in Paris make for poor gondoliers

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The sunshine might be fading from our passion fruit punch but we're looking forward to what autumn will bring.

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What a shame Peregrane. That picture is really deceptive and those inserts turning into a squoval (?!) totally change the feel of it. I bought a couple of majestic filatures t-shirt on the back of a recommendation here in the 70% cotton 30% cashmere mix. A year later they still look perfect though slightly looser (inevitable with tees I think). The U-neck style is particularly flattering and not too low of a scoop (though might be different on someone with a bigger bust than I have). They do 25% off every now and then. I agree with you though that the baby things often have the best cotton. M&S baby vests in the Autograph range were gorgeous quality and nothing like that for adults.

Re weekly pay - it's still pretty common here in Ireland for retail / service industry / trade jobs and also public service jobs. Police, as well as others, are paid weekly right up the rank structure. One place I worked in had a structure where you got paid every 4 weeks i.e. 13 times a year. It was sold as being a perk. The idea being that you'd only have 12 rent / mortgage / bill payments so you'd end up with an extra paycheck with no outgoings at the end of the year. The reality was that is was a holy nightmare trying to align funds for direct debits etc with a payday that changed every month.

Quick question - steamers. Does anyone use one and should I think about getting one?

True, my majestic filatures are still great and I do agree that the 70CO30CA blend is particularly nice, really soft on the skin. I've been a bit annoyed with them as the smallest size isn't that small to begin with so plenty of loose relaxed options but everything else just looks unintentionally slobby on and it's a bit more of an issue when the pieces I own become looser, although it hasn't been too bad so far.

You learn something new everyday, is it still common/the norm to pay rent in weekly instalments? I know that it isn't uncommon in the UK, just not sure how widespread across the market it is either.

Steamer- yes I have one but it's on its last legs. It's the first model Fridja made which was pretty innovative back then. In all honesty, if you have a good steam iron that has a vertical setting you're mostly buying into convenience (larger water reserve, quick heating up time and a setup that's easy to use). I have been looking at a replacement, the OneSteam (from France incidentally, nope don't need to earn my paycheck from them or anything ) is coming out the most promising, either the Dualys or the model below that as they promise to even be able to do heavy wool coats which certainly would expand the scope of what I'm used to. It does cut back on dry cleaning, so long as things aren't actually dirty or you've been in a very smelly restaurant or similar. The little hand held ones would only interest me if I travelled a lot for week, I can't see that being much use for at home use.

Rent is usually quoted per week, but paid monthly IME, Bo.

It's interesting that this week's Guardian and Times fashion pages should both feature "shop your wardrobe" items for current looks. The documentary has been very influential already if MN threads are anything to go by. But I also wonder if the self-flagellation is a bit over-wrought, considering the little statistic that the number of wears per garment before abandoning it has declined by 36% in UK/Europe but by 70% in China, during the last 15 years. Of course, this may say as much or more about the rampant surge of Chinese consumerism in the same period. There cannot have been much frisson in shopping for a new Mao suit.

@Bo proper legal AST rent contracts usually quote rent pcm. Weekly cash in hand rent does go on and in my experience ( of seeing patients being made homeless because they are in hospital and haven't paid for a few weeks) is associated with the shadow economy and total lack of legal protection for the tenant. It may also happen in more salubrious circumstances, but that's been my experience.

@Xing- - shopping for Mao suits!

I quite like a Mao suit I did end up getting a winter coat made when I was in China. It was very nicely made and fit like a glove but it did have a bit of a Red Army cut to it.

Yes, I assumed the weekly rent was more the bottom end of the market, overlapping into the grey economy. Bit surprised to hear it's still advertised as weekly across the market but paid monthly.

Without meaning to be too cynical, but we were talking changing habits/delayed gratification previously, but this happens so often on MN. Someone will post I really want to buy less and more quality and loads of people jump on board and then inevitably it teethers out when they discover the true cost of that/understand the sacrifice involved and then we're back to, can you find me X for under £5.

Exaggeration, obviously, but again it's another back and forth mechanism of extremes. I do agree that it's a bit much at times and being made to feel ashamed over it and shaming others for not following suit doesn't feel that healthy. Speaking of China online rental retailers operating a bit like Asos are wildly successful. I could see that working here as well, specifically for special events and funeral wear.

The consume less thread has got some of the sewists going; one commented that her mum had made a dress but that it had cost (pattern, fabric and notions) about the same as she would have spent at M&S. Home sewing is not the lower-cost path, although the bonus is having something unique and perfectly fitted.

I did a dress design course and bought a light wool fabric for a knee length skirt, lining and a zip and it came to EUR 35. That's before considering the outlay for a sewing machine and the not inconsiderable time commitment. Home sewing is lovely and something I wish I was better at, but I'm not sure that holding is up as the answer to fast fashion is very practical. Never mind the fact that it doesn't solve the problem of things like environmentally damaging cotton farming unless you're very careful in sourcing your fabrics.

Really it would be better if we could see much more accountability and transparency in the supply chain around ecological impact and working conditions, but then we have to accept that those things come at a price too and that seems to be where people balk.

I think we’ve completely lost track of the true cost of clothes. I can remember having to save up to buy pretty much anything new in my 20s/early 30s, even though I was working.

On the money Flo. And when you did save up or splurge on something, it had to be perfect. I remember misty-eyed the first expensive trousers I bought. Black doeskin wool, cut on the cross, tapered legs from a flowing thigh and secured with a button on each hip, nothing else. They cost $108 in 1982; I wore them twice a week for years and when they fell apart I had them copied, though unsuccessfully.

It's interesting, the whole going minimal/capsule wardrobe thing does sound like a revert to those times, except it was motivated by necessity rather than some self induced limitation.

The article by Jess Cartner-Morley (sp?) In this weekend's Guardian was interesting where she explained her attempts to an eco makeover, that it's specifically women who want/do this because women tend to self sacrifice far too very easily.

I think we're also getting a bit lost with exclusively blaming fast fashion. If I had to guess, what's currently filling landfills is the cheap Chinese imports in difficult to decompose fabrics from Facebook ads and Wish.

On the positive side, when looking at the Filippa K site earlier to check I wasn't talking nonsense and they still have a good assortment of basic t-shirts, I did notice they're really on the ball on the sustainable front. The synthetic fabrics have been replaced with cellulose based ones. Every item has the factory it's made in stated, including location, number of employees and the sex division of all those workers and an acknowledgement that the Filippa K team has personally inspected the factory under a special 'transparency' header. The wools are mulesing free which is also rare to see in mainstream (though IIRC H&M is on board with that too). All the while, the prices haven't gone mad. A Merino boat neck jumper certainly isn't cheap at €120 but it isn't extortionate either.

bo I am all for a critical engagement with authorities / experts. Blindly trusting “the authorities” is historically a recipe for disaster, and arguably it’s a democratic duty to question and engage critically, at least when it comes to politics. It’s certainly a prerequisite for sustaining the values of enlightenment, as per Kant’s dictum (Do I get to sit in the corner of le salon? :) )

I like your distinction between a kind of snobbery of “I know better” vs buying into conspiracy theories. But it shouldn’t be an elite thing to go after the evidence. And your mother may still have arrived at the wrong conclusion about vaccinations :)

The HuffPost article was a thought-provoking read. The tardiness of policy responses - or official blindness - to public health findings is quite sobering. Same phenomenon going on WRT climate change, only with more calamitous effects...

But while I wait for the approaching Armageddon, I’ll seek out some of those t-shirts. I may have a basket open already with a selection of filament tops... Thank you for all the recommendations. You are amazing!

Peregrane, you can be in charge of the Kant corner (with a C, we're not the Kardashians).

Well they're not that far apart to be fair, those who buy into conspiracy theories tend to think they know better too but they predominantly rely on a gut instinct/feeling than a flawed reasoning so it's more of a "I feel this is right". But yes, yes, power and authority needs to be kept in check, no footnotes needed. Hence the importance of independent media. It's what I find the most challenging of our current times, you have to not only question sources and reliability but also motives of all parties involved, especially the silent ones who stand to benefit from divisive tactics.

WRT vaccinations and not making my mother out to be a complete loon on the internet, her objections were mostly that some were overkill as they'd long been eradicated so we only got some vaccinations and things that were not deadly or substantially dangerous were skipped like Rubella. She wasn't anti vaccinations by default but was critical of their necessity and PFB was very ill after the first round so I'm sure that played into it as well. Saying that I am annoyed I never got vaccinated for Rubella as the whole point of that vaccination program was not to avoid it manifesting in childhood but to have the antibodies ready later in life when pregnant as a Rubella infection can cause instant miscarriages in the first term.

Before you check out your basket and build yourself a yurt with them for when Armageddon comes, also check out Yoox and possibly the Outnet (but they don't disclose fabrics which annoys me to no end) they have quite the selection of Majestic Filatures. Possibly Glamood too. Stylebop has some in the sale at 50% off currently but it was mostly larger sizes.

Also, annoyance of the day. Apparently knee high boots are this season's must have according to MyTheresa, only to then show me lots of Saint Laurent ones and some shit options only. Clearly this is a targeted conspiracy from above

Did see some things of interest at TKMaxx tonight, the drought there seems to have ended 🎉 will have to do the whole witness protection thing again. Will post those pics tomorrow.

The anti-vaxx/autism debate issue was in full cry as DS hit the age for vaccination. I insisted on separate vaccination for measles and organised it privately on holiday in France (2 shots, annual interval) but he'd already had rubella and my family seem to have an inbuilt immunity to mumps (none, ever) so he didn't have MMR until he was 14.

Peregrane we definitely need you in the Salon. This thread is reminding me of university but with much more chic clothes and less dodgy beer! Yy, to the importance of critical thinking.

I think we missed a lot of the MMR stuff with dd1, she did have hers late, as she had a lot of problems with asthma and chest infections. One of her friends had terrible whooping cough for months as her mum was anti vaxx.

That's really annoying, bo, when you are looking for something specific and you can't find it.

My lovely Bronte by Moon tartan scarf arrived yesterday, it's more of a stole in greens and blues, I've put it to one side for my dd's to give me for my birthday (delayed gratification ).

Drive by posting to flag a fresh FT article about “the new Phoebe Philos”. www.ft.com/content/9d129e82-c1ab-11e8-84cd-9e601db069b8

By my reckoning only two of the four obscure labels mentioned there (Ports 1961, Rejina Pyo, Rüh and Bite) have been mentioned here, so this may be a rare case of a major publication not plagiarising bo 😃

I would not have thought of checking Yoox etc for filaments, thank you for the idea, will do!

The whole anti-vax thing has pushed me in the opposite direction, I’ve even had DS vaccinated against chicken pox (although admittedly that was partly to ensure he doesn’t drag it home while DC2is a newborn). The thing that really had me scraping my jaw off tehe floor was when a Nobel prize winner - and a virologist to boot! - came out against vaccines in France.... www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sante/vaccins-decryptage-de-l-etrange-conference-de-presse-des-professeurs-luc-montagnier-et-henri-joyeux_118446

Aha Bo jij bent Nederlander? Ik had het moeten weten. Ik heb veel Nederlandse schoonfamilie.

Sorry for my assumption earlier.

(And sorry for my crappy Dutch).

Not for the first time, this thread brings to mind the genius of Ron and Russell Mael:

You mentioned Kant and I
was shocked, so shocked.
Cos where I come from,
none of the girls have such foul tongues.
(Sparks: Hasta Manana Monsieur)

flo. Love Sparks.

Peregrane I think that article is behind a paywall, I just got a message asking me to subscribe to read. Do I get thrown out of the Salon for not subscribing to FT?

Having said that about vaccinations, dd2 had the flu vaccination at school this week, had a bit of a reaction to it and has now turned into a snot monster so we are now spending the day at home, instead of going to a family reunion party . Better than flu, however.

I have my husband to thank for introducing me to Sparks. At the time they were bracketed with the teenybopper bands and, not being far out of that age group, I was naturally keen to distance myself from them.

It was bizarre really as their lyrics were very um .... sophisticated. 'Amateur Hour' which was cheerfully promoted by the BBC, was all about trying to get the hang of sex

No worries, Hairy, and your Dutch is far from crappy.

Hope she'll recover soon, quirky. You may be barred from entering Gabriela Hearst's Salon, but that one also requires some prehistoric earrings and a flock of merino wool sheep large enough to supply a single luxury brand...

Speaking of the Salon, Flo, as your name suggests, you're obviously in charge of the music. Best get Patti in to perform for us, maybe she'll bring her friend Ann Demeulemeester

Tis a shame it's behind a paywall. I wouldn't really consider Ports1961 as an under the radar brand. It's a bit like Theory, perceived to be contemporary American designer but it has Japanese roots. It's all decent but a tad too boring to soothe my Philophile heart.

flo dp is really into them (and music in general), we went to see them about a year ago. Not Patti Smith, but they were still pretty cool. Russell Mael was dressed like Dennis the Menace and jumped around like someone a fraction of his age.

bo well, I wouldn't mind some prehistoric earrings and a flock of merino sheep tbh, I'll just add them to my amazon wishlist...

Thanks for the well wishes for dd2, she's not too bad, just very gunky.

New boots and very pleased with them, especially as I got another 25% discount.

I had mostly forgotten about Sparks, apart from mentions here and the occasional snatch on the radio. So much music, so few hours... DH talked all through the Elvis Costello programme on R4 this morning (which I've been looking forward to all week) then said "I thought you'd be listening to this", to which the slightly acid response was "I was trying to". Will aim to catch up on Monday.

Ooh, I like those Xing. Can you listen to the programme again on iPlayer? Dp does that if I'm not careful, I've learnt to spell out that I'm listening to/watching something so leave me alone. I agree about so much music, but then I feel that way about books too... and then there's the books I want to reread as well.