🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Heatwave, schmeatwave, we've got our trusty SPF50 and are donning wide brimmed hats

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10
Thread 11 Thread 12 Thread 13 Thread 14 Thread 15

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JULY 2018: Sorry, terrible title, I haven't been keeping up but I assume Dr.Sam’s new cleanser will have some fans on here.

EnidButton I think the 'gloss' is more pertinent because of the image she sells so hard online, you really do go into it expecting a high quality experience. Her offices now are very smart, so you can see where your £££ is going - on her shoes and her office.

BagelGoesWalking The Tret was probably the worst part, it was distressing but because of the very boundaried office approach you don't get any real after support. I did contact by email to ask if my reaction was normal and was told it was and to persist.

I think the worst part was her response to my reaction in person, she was defensive and dismissed any adverse reactions as trivial or maybe even imagined. I wasn't even delivering it as negative feedback, merely explaining my adverse reactions, symptoms and issues, namely "my face is falling off". In my position when I receive feedback at work that is anything other than positive I immediately take it seriously and address it either by making alternative suggestions, try to mitigate against further damage and ameliorate as much as possible, not to get defensive and explain why the client is wrong.

She also asked me if all my friends were complimenting my skin. When I said no, she said "ah well you don't have nice friends then"

• that morning I had seen a friend who had said "oh gosh, your poor skin, that looks really uncomfortable" because that was a genuine reaction to someone when their entire face is visibly peeling and raw!

Thanks for coming over here and sharing your experience, earplugged. It's always really helpful for people to share their dermatologist experiences here, so others know what they can expect. The lack of transparency on cost is definitely an inhibitor for many and to hear your experience is really quite disheartening. It's a really poor business model to assume all your clients don't care about the cost of things and I'm not sure if the law is the same in the UK but over here it would be illegal not to provide an itemised bill.

I bang on heavily here that those seeking to use prescription medication do so under the supervision of a dermatologist or similar because it's so difficult and potentially damaging to use on your own, to see your concerns so easily dismissed alongside a lack of guidance is a massive issue IMO.

I think the expectation matchup will be individual (and I'd be less than impressed too by what you've described but know plenty who wouldn't give it a thought) but I do judge a medical person's conduct on how many questions they leave on the table (no matter the time limit) and their ability to inspire confidence in your diagnosis and treatment plan. It's a shame that it appears that Dr Sam does that very well outside of her practice but doesn't offer it one to one where you'd expect it more.

I think there's always a risk with those who court public attention in the name of their business/brand, they are rarely who they portray themselves to be. I've always considered (and will continue to do so) Dr Sam a reliable source of information that's unlikely to do much harm but been a touch wary about the gloss that surrounds her.

I think it's a bit much to insinuate that her business model is based on fleecing those desperate for help and taking advantage of that. I think your experience reveals the business side just isn't as developed as it should be to be demanding the prices that it does.

I also forget to mention that when you leave your first appointment you are given a prescription that you are left to fulfil yourself (in my case for the azelaic acid and the Duac), it was recommended that we use a specific local pharmacy in Marylebone who are familiar with Dr Sam's clinic. For some reason I assumed the items prescribed were 'rare' or difficult to obtain for normal pharmacies (not sure what I was thinking tbh) because I then had to drop another £40 on the two items whereas NHS costs are £8.80 per item and the products are available at any pharmacy).

More than double the usual cost at Dr Sam's recommended pharmacy...

Hi Botemp I agree and definitely haven't insinuated that her business is built around fleecing desperate people, I don't think it is built around that at all.

I think it is built around a very simple medical philosophy that does generate results and it is easy for her to create the results in a short consultation time with a simple formula that will work to greater and lesser degrees for most people.

She is knowledgeable and I have got more from her publicly available videos than I did from her in clinic. I think it must be very difficult to walk the line of trying to generate a public profile and maintain a professional clinic practice as there was definitely incongruence in my (singular) experience.

I really wanted to share my detailed (and picky)! opinion because before I booked I couldn't find any reviews that hadn't been gifted or similar. I am a careful spender, making considered and intentional purchases and I do have high expectations particularly when they are aligned with something so visible on a marketing level.

You can buy tretinoin in Greece and Spain for 5 euros in any pharmacy. It is inaccurate to say that it is an expensive product - as some people would have you believe.
It is however strong and if you are trying to get pregnant or are pregnant it mustn’t be used.
I expect UK dermatologists have plenty of oil-rich clients on Harley st and they are catering to this demographic who really have money to burn.

Yes, sorry, earplugged my comments WRT insinuation were surrounding Tantric's comments, should have specified that I felt that to be an unfair conclusion to draw from your very helpful and detailed (no matter how picky) review of the experience.

Biologi, as I understand it the tretinoin issue is quite complex in the UK as there is no access to it through pharmacies like elsewhere (it may have to do that it's not available on the NHS?) so the choices are either to get Obagi tretinoin through dermatologists that carry the brand which is doubly expensive in terms of access and the product itself or some Harley Street derms appear to be importing a generic version from Germany, and will likely charge a nice fee for that. As you say, the medicine itself is very affordable, the access simply isn't, if that inflated price comes with good guidance and support you could argue it's a fair price to pay.

I really am waiting for someone to jump on the internet derm business venture like Pocket Derm/Curology in the US as this would surely meet a high underserved demand. I'm guessing it's EU regulations that make it less easy to set up.

From my limited knowledge, I understand that Dermatica UK offer a service (which sounds) similar to Curology.

There is also an online acne service available through Boots as well, not sure how it works exactly.

I was looking into tretinoin products in Sweden (the substance has only ever been prescription only) and discovered that several brands are no longer available and the online guess is "low demand". No shit Sherlock - I've never been recommended or heard of anyone recommended topical tretinoin from a doctor to treat acne. Never. They only prescripe antibiotics and bensoyl peroxide, and then when skin gets really bad they reluctantly move on to Roaccutane, in other words tretinoin that affects the WHOLE body.

It's odd isn't it. I do know there has been an issue with supply of the medication. It's a pretty standard acne treatment here, and most GPs will prescribe it for you if asked (where no one acknowledges it's for anti-ageing but we all know that is what it's being used for) but they tend to bow out of the actual management of it (their knowledge is very limited WRT skincare routines, predictably, and if you're informed enough to ask for it, etc.). Dermatologists tend to prescribe special concoctions of it (like Curology) so with Vit C (in MAP form, apparently a great combo), I think Azelaic too. In contrast, it's really difficult to get access to roaccutane but in all honesty I haven't really come across anyone as I have on these boards that has been struggling for years upon years with aggressive acne. Most seem to be managed with the Yazmin pill or similar. You only really hear of teenage boys being put on Roaccutane.

I think the Superdrug equivalent of the Boots Acne clinic offered isotrex gel (or similar) but it's never in stock or something.

Interested to see how Dermatica UK, compares. I'll have a nose, thanks for bringing it to attention, Bagel. I'm sure it'll be of interest to some on here.

Well I must say compared to my visit to a dermatologist when I was in the full throes of terrible acne in my youth and feeling very misfortunate and desperate to get rid of it; my experience was very different and very positive and the roaccutane prescribed to me back then worked miraculously.

I remember his kind face and white hair to this very day 30 years later with very fond memories.

No probs Bo I try to be really careful when making comments publicly about peoples business so I wanted to clarify what I was and wasn't endorsing, I've asked for a couple of my comments to be removed for the purposes of avoiding any confusion in this respect.

I feel really passionate about the consumer experience generally as I know that with a little effort one can achieve great results. For example in my industry when professionals have a gmail address on their business card, I feel this undermines their professional impact. It is really quick, cheap and easy to set up a domain and have a professional email address and website. I really believe in the power of branding and having a suite of documents which are concise and professionally presented and dispatched as a pdf package is easy to compile. Apart from anything I believe this really conveys professionalism and particularly from something like a medical practice this makes me feel reassured that I am in good hands.

It is legal in the UK to give only a till receipt, but it is uncommon, again this is where I wanted a clear itemised receipt detailing the allocation of costs for each item. I expect this as a basic requirement and definitely don't expect to have to chase. When it did arrive it was unclear as the costs were not in line with the items listed so it was really confusing. It all just added to what was a surprisingly clumsy and inelegant experience.

I realise that I bought into a seductive and well crafted online persona and if I hadn't achieved good results I would feel really cross about the whole experience BUT underpinning the poorly packaged and perhaps unfortunately delivered experience I have achieved the results I wanted and I know that despite all of the peripheral facets I have listed that fundamentally Sam knows what she is talking about, the experience just needs to come into context with the polish and glamour that she conveys online.

I totally agree that an online Derm would make an absolute killing, I tried to find someone else to prescribe the Tret as I decided I didn't want to proceed with further purchases at Sam's clinic. It is almost impossible to get this without having a further consultation at another clinic, although having said that I did find one that would prescribe it and I would have to pay an initial in person consultation fee of £40 which is probably how I will proceed in future.

Understood, earplugged, honest assessments of a business are great but MN does have a history of being challenged over libellous claims (even when they're not) by businesses so the language used matters.

I raise a brow if a plumber or plasterer uses a gmail account. It seems petty and judgemental but how seriously one tackles all aspects of their business tends to be good predictive behaviour for how they tackle issues if there are any, criticism, if their admin is going to be in order, etc.

I think there's an added demand on internet businesses. I would put Dr. Sam's practice in line with that as that's where she will get a far higher than average percentage of her clientele from. Internet businesses have always differentiated themselves when it comes to transparency, especially when it comes to cost. Your experience read more like it's a copy paste of the traditional 'if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it' attitude which people seem to confuse for prestige It doesn't mesh well with the reputation she's built online as approachable and understanding.

I've just had a look at that Dermacare UK service, and it looks exactly like Curology, down to the aesthetic and cost. They offer Tret for anti-ageing (so no need to fib about having acne when you don't) so it's definitely of interest for many on here I'd think, it's a monthly fee from 20GBP (including the prescription), I assume a more cohesive overview of actual cost is presented after the free consultation.

Just want to add to Bani's comment that I have known GPs to prescribe retinol as well as the other treatments mentioned. It was an option for me at one point but as I was (am) ttc they obviously couldn't prescribe it but they did say it was effective and they often prescribed it. I haven't heard of tretinoin being prescribed.

Here's an online review of the Dermatica dermatologist service.

Very interesting about dermatica on-line service. I didn’t know such a thing existed.

I miss this thread ☹️

My internet connection is slow and keeps dropping out so I'll be quick by saying I've just tried the Nuxe aftersun and it smells divine like all their other products so fingers crossed my skin likes it as much by the morning.

I've been on the beach all afternoon so caught a bit of sun

Thanks for that Bagel , helpful to get full insight on cost there too. Also with what you actually get, if the prescription is a good match you can probably stop and start the prescription a bit as the amount of product is more than you'll use up in a month. For anti-ageing it's quite straightforward, for acne you may need to swap and change a few times though.

I'm intrigued by the eyelashes too, prescription bioprost (I assume) at around the same prices (and significantly less than some) as the cosmetic eyelash serums.

MNHQ, if you're reading along, excellent ad/MN product test potential there

My work here is done. DH has just commented on how good my SPF choices/application advice have been because no-one has burned once despite being out on the lake on paddleboarding etc for hours at a time. We are all naturally v pale. My work here is done .

I did actually bring 4 different ones (using some up) and I've bought two here. One LRP and one Vichy.

Pupsie I remember when I first started reading up on skincare and doing the face when people went on and on about sunscreen and thought I'd never be like that...

WRT to your titillation efforts, job done, please let us know which sunscreens you bought in France? Which reminds me, I actually have a bit of shelf porn on my phone somewhere, will seek it out later.

Fantastic pharmacy here.

Lots of brands I've never heard of.

I've bought some LRP Toleriane tinted moisturiser and some Vichy 89 (not willing to give up on HA yet).