🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Heatwave, schmeatwave, we've got our trusty SPF50 and are donning wide brimmed hats

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JULY 2018: Sorry, terrible title, I haven't been keeping up but I assume Dr.Sam’s new cleanser will have some fans on here.

connie here’s article from VH mentioned earlier www.victoriahealth.com/editorial/the-best-kept-secret-for-healthy-hair-radiant-skin-and-strong-nails

Argh lost my long eloquent reply

Less eloquent version

JDSTER, the Sensai (in volumising) and the Chanel Le Volume (in ultra noir) are part of my usual mascara wardrobe. The Chanel is a bit of a diva and needs to be locked in between two tubing mascara layers and it's a bitch to remove. Usually end up with a bit of a smokey eye in the morning no matter how well I cleanse. Brush is fab though and the colour is intensely deep like no other mascara I've ever come across. I've been interested in a new Chanel mascara, revolution something, but it was a UK exclusive for a while, should be launched here but haven't seen it yet. Anyone else had a play with it by any chance?

Sallie, not sure. Heat/warmth definitely degrades sunscreen quicker so tiny bottle will go quicker but probably not in 3 days. Exposure to air may have impact considering that most sunscreens are packaged with limited exposure to air. If I'd have to guess I'd say you're probably looking at slightly less protection, not ineffective but comparable to end of the product lifespan. I kept the box for the Frezyderm, it travelled well in that.

Bani, the body adjusts, you just offload more in one go.

Connie, I'm really wary of Biotin as it's a known cause of intense breakouts and the wrong dose can actually cause more hair loss. Silica is a bit more innocuous and generally aids the condition and strength of the hair, biotin only helps it grow faster. If hair loss is a genuine concern I'd prioritise getting hormone levels and ferritin levels checked with a GP, it's a more effective and safer route to travel IMO.

I've been out all day and have returned a hot sweaty mess with a huge zit on my upper lip urghh.

My Benefit Bad Girl Bang mascara is great but like every other bloody mascara still manages to make its way to my under eye and because it's water proof you can't just wipe it away whilst out, so I'm back to square one where mascara is concerned

JD thanks for the link

Botemp. Thanks I have got a load of spots when my skin has previously been clear. I did think o was overdoing the Biore watery essence spf

Thank you Bo I'm travelling with hand luggage only (checking bags costs more than the flight did!) so no room for the full frezyderm bottle in the plastic liquids bag I might just take the bioderma nude touch instead as I want something that doubles as a foundation.

Tant have you tried tubing mascaras? I can no longer use normal ones without ending up like a raccoon, though I'm going to try layering (like Bo mentions) tubing/normal/tubing as I used to love benefit roller lash before it starting smudging on me. I use the DHC tubing one but it's very subtle, there are more dramatic/noticeable ones available.

Banivani I was surprised I didn't react to the UB cleanser as strongly scented products do usually make me spotty and/or itchy. I was fine with this though and it did a good job, just a shame about the pong!

I will do JD I should've bought it last week when I saw someone mention it (might've been Sali H). I try new ones now and again but go back to Diorshow. Not sure what I'm expecting from a new one really. Dior lengthens, thickens and lasts on me. I'm just a mascara tart I think.

Sallie yes sadly there's no way I'm going to Pfaff around with tubing / normal / tubing mascara although Bos idea in principle does sound really good.

I might just go right back to my 2000 calorie Max factor that I used for years before chopping and changing and trying new ones.

I still have a huge zit and I've woken up with a tummy ache from the days over indulgence.
I've got friends coming over later today and I need to sort out part of my garden and other things.
I need to dab some PC BHA on my zit right now actually

Hello all.
Big fan of these threads. Thanks for all the useful advice.
I thought I would add a suggestion for a stable chemical suncream I found in Greece: Korres red grape spf 50 Matt. It is more velvet than Matt but it is just so effective and the packaging is also a pump.
I really like it. I also liked their eyeliner but that is not for this thread!

I haven't worn 'normal' mascara on it's own for about 14 years I think. I started with the original tubing mascara by blinc and moved on from there. Like Bo I sometimes sandwich normal mascara between layers of tubing but for everyday wear it's too much of a faff and I can never get it all off cleanly.
The best tubing mascaras I've found to get a similar affect with one product are the Estee Lauder Zero Smudge (although only the first half of the tube for some reason, half way through it starts getting a bit ordinary in terms of volume and length).
Clinique Lash Power flutter to full, has a dial that lets you vary the amount of product and the effect created. Probably may favourite overall.
Mac Extended Play gigablack, great colour not so much volume on me.

Hi Biologi, sounds interesting. I wonder if it is sold anywhere outside Greece, will google.

Ooh interesting, biological, that's the first sunscreen I've seen with the Tinsosorb A2B filter which is relatively new. Not a fan of fragrance in things for myself but can tolerate it at times, is it very strong smelling?

Just went for a sniff: no not at all strongly - I am personally really anti fragrance for skincare for the face. But it isn’t at all obvious (to me).
I bought it and used it in 32 degrees walking around town and also while swimming and I am reassuringly pasty.
I mixed it with the avene mineral one at first as I didn’t trust it. The thing I like is threat the uv protection is stable (I don’t know too much about this stuff but my chemistry is ok!).
Am now using it in the UK with a touch of erborian cc cream or B.B. cream and it is working well. Have been outside lots at it is still hovering around 26 here.

biologi thank you for sunscreen tip, korres is sometimes available here so that was useful! Like I wrote in my routine I’ve been using sunscreens from ACO but they’re quite greasy/clammy or very claggy to spread - however I trust the protection.

Not that I’m a big make up wearer but Max Factor’s Calorie 2000 is always a winner. Inexpensive and does the job and is available in browny black.

I really like that mascara bani always used to buy it. I'm going to get it again to see how it fares.

Bio Hi! 👋🏻 Make up recommendations are very welcome too.

Enid I’m a bit of a mascara tart too. I don’t think I’ve found ‘the one’ yet. pickled I’ve got the Clinique lash power flutter to full mascara. I like how it goes on and it last well but I struggle with removing it at the end of the day. I naturally have quite long eyelashes and I find I loose a few during the removal process! I’ve never tried max factor 2000 calorie mascara, despite being a classic. Tant I got the Nivea eye makeup remover you recommended. It does a better job than Bioderma micellar for the Benefit mascara I’ve got.

bio as enid says, we like makeup recs too .

I popped into Boots today to buy the Babyliss travel hairdryer Sali Hughes recommended. I always end up lugging my parlux (faithful friend of around 15 years!). It’s £40 rrp but Boots have it for £30 for the next few weeks and double points this weekend. I also bought Essie gel nail polish, on the back of another thread on here. I love Essie polish anyway so I thought I’d give their gel one a go since it was buy one get one half price.

JDSTER I'm pleased the nivea worked out for you, it's good isn't it.

Bani you've convinced me to go back to using my old faithful 2000 Calorie Max factor.

My upper lip spot is going thanks to PC BHA. I have a couple of spots near my nose from yesterdays sweaty day out, they might might all be midge related (lets hope) so will be dabbing the PC BHA on those as well. It's been ages since I've had proper spots.

Hello! I've not been here before but have been invited by the lovely Botemp to share my experience with Dr Sam Bunting. I can see I have a lot to catch up on, so many parts to this thread and SO much incredible information.

I saw Dr Sam about 18 - 24 months ago for mild adult acne and early signs of ageing, I was looking for a proactive and results driven approach for both areas of concern. I have really mixed feelings about my experience, while I have seen good results they have been somewhat tainted by an inferior experience in general. I went in with admittedly high expectations, I have seen Harley Street specialists before (not derms) and knew that I would be paying a lot of money and from my research into Dr Sam I was expecting a very high quality experience which did not materialise.

Your first impression on booking is that it is difficult to speak with someone, you go through automated phone systems and leave a message, the first message didn't get returned so I had to call another two times. Then the girl I spoke to explained that for around £395 (I can check my records to be exact) you get "twenty minutes of consultation time" steep, but I figured it would be worth it. I then went to her previous consultation room which was part of a larger clinic where she rented a room, it was a disappointing environment (her new clinic is infinitely nicer) and rather shabby, it was unclear where to sit and wait, the girl she had working for her was very young and not what I had anticipated to be part of the glossy Dr Sam brand. Dr Sam then greets you and takes you to her office, she is definitely impressive, clearly in expensive clothes, very pointy expensive high heels, very well groomed, lovely skin for her age (44) lots of Le Labo product placement on big shiny desk. She was warm, sympathetic, brisk (don't forget the 20 minute time limit)! and we romped through existing routine, my needs and she looked at my skin and very quickly came up with a prescription, list of new items that I needed and sent me out of the room to her assistant to give her the list I had been handed. I think this is where it started to frustrate me, the lack of transparency and communication. I did not know what was on this list nor understand where the contents of the list would be coming from, I soon found out that all would be supplied by Dr Sam's office and would more than double my consultation price. I wasn't told prices the of anything, or what I was buying, I was told the final cost and I have to say that I was so shocked and then shamed by the desire to ask questions like "WHAT ON EARTH CAN POSSIBLY COST THAT MUCH" that I dumbly handed over my card. I was handed a plastic bag (contents of which were unknown) and left slightly appalled at what I had just spent and wondering what on earth was in my bag. Then you are emailed word documents which are short, generic routines with your name added which is the only editing of the document. I mean literally an unbranded Word document, in Times New Roman with a very simple routine outlined. Not even a pdf. A word document . Might not bother everyone but really bothered me, I'm paying nearly £1k for a shabby office, a recalcitrant assistant and a Word doc? You can't even be bothered to add a bit of branding, change the font and convert to a pdf which takes precisely 2 seconds? That sort of sets the tone for the whole experience really. I also had to chase several times for an itemised receipt so that I could figure out what things had cost which I thought was pretty shocking really.

I appreciate most people might not be bothered by the things above, I had high expectations set by Dr sam's online persona and by my previous experiences with private specialists on Harley Street where a slick and professional experience that feels luxurious and commensurate with the expense is what you get as standard.

The routine itself was simple and pared back, I liked the minimalistic approach to reducing products and routine. A daily acid, sunscreen, and retinol. I really struggled with the retinol product and the dryness and pain I experienced were quite severe, something that Dr Sam didn't seem to really understand on my follow up appointment, my whole face was flaking for weeks, it was not attractive and actually quite disturbing, but I don't feel she copes well when the feedback isn't entirely positive as I felt my feelings were dismissed. Having seen her several times I can say that my skin is much improved, I would though on reflection, have gone somewhere where there was less emphasis on a glossy insta pouting doctor and found a more down to earth doctor who focussed on private clients and not generating a social media profile.

Hello earplugged and welcome. Thanks for sharing your experience at Dr Sam’s office. I had looked into getting an appointment with her myself at one point but without having any major issues with my skin, I felt the price was too steep. May I ask were you prescribed tretinoin? What other things do you have in your routine and have you stuck to her recommendations?

I’m glad now I didn’t go to the expense of an appointment- not because of what you’ve said- I think I’d be disappointed because I’d definitely want more than 20 minutes!

Actually earplugged I retract my “not because of what you’ve said”, certainly what you’ve said makes me think I’d be highly disappointed. I would expect a high class service from start to finish. I do generally enjoy watching her videos on YouTube so I’ll continue to do that for free

Hello JDSTER I was prescribed Tretinoin, this was what I had most issue with, I used it exactly as prescribed and it was like my whole face was peeling off for weeks and weeks, I had so much pain with it that I used to cry when washing my face. I stopped using it for a really long time and have recently gently reintroduced it and so far *knocks wood am finding it ok. I was also prescribed 20% Azelaic acid and then the usual LRP cleanser, Obagi moisturiser and SPF, the standard Dr Sam routine.

The 20 minute consultation is really strictly adhered to, something I understand as a professional, I also am really boundaried in my work but not with the same rigidity and I know that no one I deal with feels rushed. However I don't then expound freely on social media and give the impression of creating an accessible persona to people who aren't paying me while making those who are paying me feel restricted. Seems a bit bonkers to me.

earplugged thanks for sharing.

That's really interesting and yes I would also be very put out at only having 20 mins in a shabby office and feeling obliged to spend so much on products afterwards without even being told what on earth I was buying.

So basically a dermatologist makes their money from being the only person that is able to prescribe tretinoin essentially, for which they need only 20 minutes to do so.

And Boots can prescribe differin for free online plus the cost of the product.

Really really interesting earplugged, thank you for sharing. I'd be very disappointed at that too. You do expect a certain level of 'gloss' when paying that amount, even if it makes no difference to the treatment, it certainly makes paying £££ more palatable. Plus decent customer service should be given as standard no matter how much someone is spending. Your retinol experience was terrible. Glad to hear you're seeing results now and your happy with how your skin has progressed. Just a shame you didn't get what you expected from the start.

*you're happy

Shit earplugged, that's a real eye opener! 20 mins isn't a long time, £400 for 20 mins and then another £400-500 for products. Jesus wept!

1. not giving proper advice about Tret usage is seriously bad. The reactions you had should just not have happened.
2. the lack of transparency about the pricing of the products, having to chase them up etc is really annoying and unprofessional.

It's really taking advantage of someone's misfortune and desperation at having acne.

What a price to pay.

It's taking the piss really isn't it, lets be honest.
Earplugged I'm glad you're looking and feeling better about it all now