🐌 Fantastic Skincare: In the Garden of Wisdom there is always room for Cicaplast ❤️

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a lightbulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JUNE 2018: We successfully got the Frezyderm Frenzy into the MN Swears By!!!!!!!! So, once more for the MN bottom line:

www.amazon.co.uk/FREZYDERM-SPF-Velvet-Face-Sunscreen/dp/B007TSU0E2/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?keywords=frezyderm+velvet+suncream&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1526062070&sr=8-1

In other news we’re excited by the launch of Garden of Wisdom at Victoria Health and several posters are already in full on testing mode.

Also, thread 15 , who is going to get me some crystal? Preferably not meth

Ok thanks bo I understand...

My skin is glowing from these products it feels lovely ;-)

GP tomorrow shall let you know what she says...

Hi,

Can I ask advice on a product (now not sure how to use this thread - are questions about products ok or am I supposed to choose one and then report back on it?)

My Mums going to try The ordinary AHA 30% + BHA 2% Peeling solution 10 minute exfoliating facial as a start to investigating a new skin care regime. She’s had a few perks over the years and had great results.

She’s currently using my products but wondered if there was something specifically that could help age spots so we have found

The Ordinary Vitamin C Suspension 23% + HA Spheres 2%.

Has anybody used this product and where in the daily routine would you apply it?

Or anybody used a particularly good age spot specific product that might be worth investigation for us.

Thanks in advance!

;-)

This looks good and has all the ingredients on the anti ageing table in the worksheet linked up thread?

Any experiences with it

Holy Grail Vitamin C Facial Serum with Hyaluronic Acid & Peptide Complex.

Could alternate with niacinamede serum for her PM routine as per the table and see how she goes?

mint Restasis worked so very well for me. Did the optician discuss that with you? You might need to see an optometrist first, which wouldn't be a bad idea if the optician didn't give you a clear cause of the dry eyes and slightly blocked ducts.

Want no they didn't discuss that with me, I've never heard of it before. Are they eye drops?

Mint, the active ingredient in Restasis (which is an eye drop) is cyclosporine. Cyclosporine changes the physiology of the eye and can help in certain dry eye cases. It's a long term commitment (applying drops morning and evening) and you may need to wait months before seeing results. There can be side effects like redness and burning too, particularly whilst your eyes adjust to the medicine.

Restasis contains something like 0.05% cyclosporine. I don't know about the UK but it's very expensive here. Something like €122 for a months' supply. It doesn't guarantee results. Its great it worked for you Want2bSuperman but I used it for a year and it didn't help me. Just got the side effects and no improvement in my condition.

I now use cyclosporine 1% drops and these have helped me a lot (side effects weren't great but my eyes have got used to cyclosporine now and a lot better). Ophthalomologist prescribes the strength of cyclosporine and there is a special pharmacy here which makes it up. It's actually way cheaper than Restasis as it's not a commercial product.

I would definitely recommend speaking to an Ophthalomologist (or Optometrist I suppose) before starting any treatment like this. Probably you need to anyway as imagine cyclosporine/Restasis is prescription only. In any case, if you have a blocked tear duct then I'm not sure you would be a good candidate for cyclosporine as I think it needs to be able to drain properly from the eye (you shouldn't use cyclosporine for eg if you have plugs in your tear ducts).

Ah sorry Want: you want to be Supermum not Superman

Thank you for that Sophie. The optician recommended i use the hycosan as it's preservative free and can be used for 6 months once opened unlike most others

Changing the subject and apologies as it's not a nice one but do any of you know the best way to get blood out of bed sheets? It's my time of the month and it's a bad one as it took a long time to come! I'm gutted as I'd only just put fresh clean bedding on Tuesday 🙄

Morning Mint, I've not heard of Hycosan but I googled it and it looks to be an OTC eye drop for hydration and allergies. This is a completely different thing to Restasis/cyclosporine.

Hello Shop, my derm has also just started me on Skinoren alongside my tretinoin. I need to use Skinoren every other night. Good to hear it's working for you. May I ask how much it costs in the UK?

Sophie, I've never been to Greece actually but the ones I've met are always a spirited lot.

Thank you, Shop, that's really helpful to know

Nofilter, questions about product are fine. But it's difficult for me to make any comment when you're discussing an entire routine on behalf of someone. A certain amount of context and history is needed that only the person themselves can answer accurately.

I don't recommend anything from The Ordinary. This has to do with the conduct of their CEO towards his own staff and other businesses that have worked with him. Which matters to some and not to others but more crucially, they are very inconsistent on formulation, something they acknowledge themselves (recently) as this is how they keep the prices low. Considering people here mostly are sensitive skinned or have to treat it like that due to other conditions the products just aren't worth the hassle and grief for the low prices to which other alternatives exist.

The Vit C 23% is one of the few products that is sort of ok from them but it's extremely unpleasant to use. Also, 23% is not a starter Vit C, I don't know how old your mother is but with age often comes increased sensitivity. Pigmentation is also very difficult to tackle, you first need to know what type it is and consequently, you'll know what ingredients will respond to it. Whilst there are some Vitamin C products that great results for pigmentation (like the DCL C30 one) I'm not convinced TO version will. It's very basic, has no other pigmentation fighting ingredients (tackling pigmentation really is a combination of several ingredients and rarely is one successful with OTC products when it comes to long-standing pigmentation), it's only a good choice for those who need Vit C as part of a preventative routine to get a baseline of Vit C in, it's not a 'treatment' Vit C IYSWIM.

The 30% peel is for very experienced acid users only, it's not something I'd recommend to anyone, especially someone older whose skin is potentially 'thinned' with age. And age does matter when it comes to skin, harm is done much easier and recovery takes longer. Realistically any ageing that has occurred isn't going to be tackled by the popular actives used from ca. 25-late30s. It becomes all about retinoids with the occasional support active, and depending what type of ageing has occurred it just becomes predominantly about prescription medications only at some point and peels in a professional setting or laser. And sunscreen, obviously, that before anything else.

I've never heard of the HG Vit C you mentioned, what Vitamin C form is being used? At what concentration? What pH is it? Do you have an INCI? tbh it sounds a bit like one of those Amazon only beauty products with thousands of questionable glowing reviews.

mint, soak in cold water (never warm or hot) and use a stain remover suitable for blood stains after (I use oxgall soap but I don't think that's that common elsewhere but normal soap should lift it if you get it in water quick enough) and leave to soak a bit (out of the water). Then launder as usual.

Sophie yes it's an otc eye drop, I'll discuss different options next time I go for check up, I use the hycosan dual which is better than the original for me but still doesn't solve the issue completely.

Thank you bo I'll do just that.

mint Bo's laundry advice is spot on. For soaking if you have any Biotex, or can get any, it is brilliant for blood. Keep the sheets wet between treating and actually putting them in the machine, it seems to help stop the stain 'set'. Also dry outside in sunshine as that will lift any remaining colour.

Nofilter it sounds like I'm a similar age to your Mum, I'm 52.
I have generally good skin (thankyou mixed race heritage!) but fairly significant Melasma.
All of my skincare efforts go into dealing with the pigmentation, and Sun protection. Any other products are really only there to deal with the effects of the main efforts, so cleansers that are gentle but can deal with sunscreen, aha to help exfoliate, Cicaplast to help heal.
That means I'm not spending money on things that tinker with the edges.
Doing this is have a major impact but, and this is crucial, I started with a professional consultation and a prescription. Despite having really robust skin with no wrinkles it would be incredibly easy to inflict serious trauma which can take a long time to heal.
My view is that if you've generally looked after your skin then by your 50s there's nothing you can buy otc (in the UK) that will make a significant difference. This is only based on my own experience! It seems to me that otc products for my age group fall into the 'clean, polish, protect' group, there's nothing wrong with that at all but I am wary of anything otc promising miracles for my skin.
Btw I have used The Ordinary Vit C, before starting on prescription skincare. The texture is really unpleasant, gritty and oily at the same time, the gritty bits felt like they were scratching my skin and it was very difficult to rub in.

Does anyone use mineral and chemical SPFs at the same time?

I really like the finish the Frezyderm gives but I need to use a mineral SPF for my melasma. I put the mineral SPF on this morning and put Frezyderm over the top. Its still given me a lovely finish.

I did some research I googled it and I can't find a reason not to.

Ooh Bluebell do you mind me asking which mineral sunscreen you are using? I'm in the same boat and new to freezyderm, looking for something that plays nicely with it.

Forgot to say that I've been using either Ultrasun 50 or Sk:n Clinics spf but over the top of the Frezyderm.

Thanks for that Pickled, that's really helpful. The only thing I'd also add is that if you're prone to pigmentation any damage you do inadvertently cause often ends up causing more pigmentation, setting one up in a continuous vicious cycle.

I think one of the hardest things with skincare is separating the spiel from the science as they're used interchangeably (within the limits of the law, albeit very carefully negotiated) to sell you the dream in a jar. This is where the interest in ingredients on this thread comes from and why products on their own are less of interest. The approach is more; identify issues/concerns (a derm comes in helpful here) -> identify potential ingredients that are helpful with issues/concerns and understand the ideal formulation for your skin -> find product that meets those criteria.

Anti-ageing is a prime example where it gets very muddled by cosmetic companies. Realistically anti-ageing routines and products marketed with similar terms are of interest for those with minimal or no signs of photo-ageing, the odd fine line and dehydration, basically. They preserve and prevent and therefore potential delay the onset of ageing, that's the allowance for marketing as such. It's hard to tack age groups on it as lifestyle makes a huge impact but basically, it's 25-40, up to the menopause for some with good genes and vigilant lifelong sunscreen use. Perimenopause is probably the tipping point as hormones have a huge impact and the appearance of your skin (and underlying structure) is less affected by photo-ageing alone from then on, it's simply ageing and it requires different strategies and precautions.

Bluebell, I'd have to look it up properly but the issue is predominantly with avobenzone (INCI Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane) becoming destabilised by titanium dioxide and zinc oxide (and maybe Octinoxate too, I'd really need to read up on it again). The Frezyderm doesn't have avobenzone so you should be ok in that case.

Thanks Bo. Good to know about the Frezyderm not containing avobenzone.

Pickled I'm waiting for Neutrogena Pure and Free Liquid SPF 50 to be delivered so I'm currently using Solait Face Sun Cream SPF 50.

I just realised that the eucerin spf I got contains avobenzone! It's on ingredients as butyl methoxydibenzoylmethane which I stupidly didn't realise was the same thing! So confusing!

Also homosalate which I've read is a hormone disruptor spf ingredient!

Thanks bo and pickled.

Just been to GP she didn’t seem to think I had Rosacea as my skins otherwise clear. Has prescribed Metronidazole 0.75% Gel twice a day for 3-4 weeks and to stop it if it irritates, and then a review...

Totally in love with this photo from my shoot! I'm back there on the 22nd July for a different networking event

I may have ordered another sunscreen 😬. I will probably be moaning on here about it soon....🙄😂

Amazing photo @Olli!