M&S - it's over

[Floisme]

I've been known to defend M&S on here but if this is their attitude they can fuck right off.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/05/not-just-for-over-55s-ms-chairman-says-chain-needs-younger-clothing

Because of course the over 55s just loved The Pink Dress. And all that yellow. We can't get enough of it.

No, Mr Norman, you haven't been 'buying too much for the over 55 customer'. What you've been buying, is too much shite.

I agree with pps who said why not have more v necked cardigans. Also, I've bought my last 3 cashmere cardigans from John Lewis as the quality and colours were better. It's a sad day when Marksies can't even get a cashmere cardi right.

I find M&S do have a few lovely pieces but they are so hidden amongst the thousands of nylon, Ill fitting, flouncy, overpriced items that I can’t be arsed to search the whole massive store for nice things.

IMHO they need to massively reduce the range of items they stock and focus on good quality pieces that appeal to different groups of people.

Early 40s here, M&S do a slim bootleg Jean which I buy because I do not have legs that good in skinnies (sadly), and they’re only about £20 a pair. I have found two navy jumpers I like this autumn but that’s it.
The only think I buy regularly in there are navy opaque tights for DD to wear for school as they wash and wear really well (and navy can be hard to find).
Per Una is awful, far too fussy. Indigo was a bit hit and miss, Autograph was ok. The plain twin set style cardigans were a good price for layering at School (teacher) but so often I wander through and there’s nothing that catches my eye. Even my mum struggles with them now and at 77 she’s been shopping in M&S for a long time!

He’s totally wrong saying their stuff is aimed at over 55s. More like 75!
I’m 51 and whilst I do go in a lot for food, and wonder around the clothes I never see a single thing I like. My mum buys a lot of clothes from there, as do her friends.

I was in the Westfield branch this weekend with the DDs (who are 19 and 16). They cooed over the thin rib roll neck jumpers in a vast range of colours and bought several. DD1 bought a chunky jumper in a mustard colour, a pair of leggings and a pair of their "Mom" jeans. (She is an hourglass figure and says that M & S jeans are the only ones that fit her waist and hips.) They got 30 denier opaque tights, and DD2 bought a pair of suede boots with a chunky heel and straps (sort of biker boots). Neither of them will touch their underwear, apart from stretchy cotton camisoles in a number of colours and socks and tights. They both love the skincare, cosmetics and bath stuff.

DD1 gets her black trousers for work in there too, and says that she can guarantee finding something of reasonable quality that will fit her in there.

I thought their stuff looked better than it had in a while this weekend - lots of good basics, good quality and range of colours, but still some very odd things - stuff that would have been fine without some random applique or piece of lace on it.

Per Una, when it originally came out in the early 2000s was targeting the late 20s-early 30s age range. I am not sure when it lost its way and became the Mecca for the 70+.

I'm almost 55! I hadn't bought anything at M&S clothing for years, although I look in occasionally. My DM died a couple of years ago in her 80s, but she'd long since given up on them.

However, I popped into the store with my 16yo DD on a whim last week, on the way to New Look (for her). And we actually both came away with some clothes! I think this season is the best it's been for ages, with lots of basics in a range of colours. There were some frilly horrors, but we managed to avoid those!

DD got this jumper in purple, and it looks great on her:
www.marksandspencer.com/ribbed-polo-neck-jumper/p/p22510835

I thought their stuff looked better than it had in a while this weekend - lots of good basics, good quality and range of colours, but still some very odd things - stuff that would have been fine without some random applique or piece of lace on it
We had a similar experience

It does my head in too Tollgate. That's what I mean about Uniqlo. I wouldn't say they're my favourite store but I think they do well because they don't obsess (or don't appear to) about age and as a result, they have a wide demographic appeal: my mum wore them in her 90s; I wear them; my son's worn them.

Just sell reasonably modern clothes of reasonable quality at a reasonable price and people of most ages will buy them.

I wish we had a Uniqlo store in Sheffield. I hate online clothes shopping as I like to try stuff on before I buy. The Meadowhall M and S has some awful looking clothes just now. I have £30 worth of vouchers to spend and am struggling to spend them.

I agree about the skinny rib roll necks. They are decent basics. I do think the insurmountable problem is that M and S are having to fill giant stores. They are doing so with a large amount of tat. It is probably true to say that giant stores selling this much rubbish are now going to struggle. I don’t think my DDs would ever spare the time to rummage through it all. The online stores are more to their liking and once you know your size there’s no problem.

I used to know a person very, very high up in the company. I can assure you M and S didn’t put their best stuff in all their large stores. They put cheap and cheerful in cheap and cheerful areas. Flagship stores in affluent areas got the best. I am not sure what their best is now because there is not a single pair of women’s trousers made from wool. That seems odd for a store that overflows with cashmere.

(I can’t believe that someone else had the Chanel lookalike suit from the 80’s! Little black boucle jacket edged with velvet and ditto on the front pockets). Nothing like that in there now. However you can channel Chanel in Zara! The black Chanel lookalike jacket in there is a bargain.

Bubbles I find M and S sizing very inconsistent and wouldn't order online for that reason. I always end up taking at least a couple of sizes into the changing room when trying on clothes there.

Per Una was never for the 20s/30s! It always been frumpy with frills! What self respecting 30 year old would wear that? Even in 2000? I was 45 then and I definitely thought it was for an older woman who wanted to be feel younger. The people who bought it are now 70 plus.

If M and S want a younger demographic then they also need to look at Asos.

I send back sizes I don’t want. It’s not a big problem. That’s what many people do now and read the reviews re sizing.

I couldn't buy a bra. I'm 32D which was fine, but all the straps were too long

I always have to pull out the straps to the longest possible length!

Agree with pp that Per Una seems to have evolved from 30something demographic to over 70s and the store as a whole caters for over 70s except for the lingerie which though a bit hit or miss is mostly younger.

I am a fatty and used to buy a lot at M&S when they had a "Plus" section. They then decided that fat women shouldn't be ghetto-ised so discontinued it and expected me to rummage through an entire store full of cheap fabric and outdated styles to find the tiny proportion of them that go up to bigger sizes, only to find that they are not designed or cut for curvier women but are just widened from a smaller sample garment so are wrongly proportioned.
Can I also just say that I am late 50s and had managed to miss that everything in their stores is, apparently, aimed at me! DM and MIL do shop there though, both in their 80s

They really need to focus don't they.

The perfect cashmere cardigan/jumper. Ditto in merino so there's a cheaper option. The perfect cotton t-shirt. The perfect cotton or silk shirt. All of the above with a range of necklines/sleeve lengths/body lengths and a good range of neutral colours: black, grey, navy, red (but not that bloody M&S red they've been using for 40 years that's a bit too orange, a perfect cherry red please), white? plus some fashion colours. I may even allows some stripes! No fucking embellishment.

Trousers in wool and cotton in a range of lengths (petite, regular, tall), a range of waist heights and a range of shapes including the most fashionable shapes. Also in a good range of neutral colours plus some fashion colours. Ditto skirts.

Blazers in tweed, wool, cotton, velvet in a range of shapes and a good range of colours. Woollen coats in classic shapes for winter. Trenches that are actually waterproof. Butter soft leather jackets.

Beautiful accessories: silk scarves (these can be patterned), cashmere scarves, leather gloves with silk linings, woollen gloves (and by this I mean merino not acrylic), wooly hats. Again, all natural materials and a range of neutral colours.

Dresses. Oh dresses. No pink polyester. That is all.

Shoes. What are their shoes like? I tend to spend more money that their shoes are and so they feel cheap to me. I would love to know what they think their core market is and what their income is. I feel like they are aiming at a poorer demographic than John Lewis.

Save some money on stylists for their website. The clothes look dire. Use whoever Hush uses. Oh, and as a PP said, recalibrate your sizing. According to the dimensions they have on their website I should be between a 10 and a 12, in reality I'm closer to an 8 when I buy from M&S. Since an 8 is often the smallest size in the petite range (is it just me or should the petite range actually go down to an even smaller size than the normal range?) who knows what people smaller than me do, I'm a size 10 which is pretty much as large as someone of my height should be while remaining healthy. I could go down 2 sizes and still be within the healthy range. But if I can fit into a size 8 M&S then what does someone slimmer than me wear?

QuiteUnfit - we certainly had a similar experience- that's the jumper my DDs bought!

Per Una, when it was launched, was definitely aimed at the 20/30 demographic (I was doing some work with M & S at the time), and I seem to recall that it stopped at size 16 (Autograph, when it launched, stopped at size 16 or 18 too). I had a fake suede skirt from Per Una that I bought in 2002. Definitely would not have appealed to the over 70s!

What they don’t do (ever) is sexy or alluring. I don’t mean liz McDonald. Or tarty. I mean a mini dress, with modern detailing eg hardware, that shows some shoulder off. Or something fitted. A (very) well made bodycon dress eg a Karen millen type, lined, not one layer of cheap scuba fabric which shows off a vpl and what you ate for breakfast.

They should imagine the 28-40 demographic wanting something trendy and sexy (not tarty) for a night out. What would they buy?

Those scarves they were allowing you to buy for £5 if you spent over a certain amount. No thanks, they were horrid. I have only just found out that you can ask at the till what offers are on your Sparks card. I have had the card 2 years no one ever said when I was paying. Apparently the offers are personal to you. What a complicated system!
The cashmere is rubbish and goes into a mass of bobbles after a couple of wears. Colours are off too. I want Navy not mid-blue. Proper colours or basic colours. If they get a good dress they discontinue it.
My Facebook feed keeps coming up with styling by M & S but the mood boards are not M & S.

"I send back sizes I don’t want. It’s not a big problem."

It is a massive hassle for me to keep going to and fro to the post office to return stuff back to M and S. It is far easier for me to actually go to a store and try everything on in one visit. My other issue is that so many of their clothes are just a bad fit and aimed more at apple shapes, and not pears like me so I have to try everything on. I often find I will take 5 or 6 things into the changing room and only buy one or nothing at all.

My mother’s wardrobe is absolutely bursting with Per Una. (She’s in her 70s). It may have started being aimed at mid 20s but it certainly didn’t end that way.
The colours patterns and fabric make me feel quite ill. (Sorry Mum!)

Can you email what you have written here to the CEO CountFosco?

You have nailed it exactly what M and S should be doing.

I hate that they will make a perfectly nice piece of clothing and then only do it in mustard or orange or lime green. Most people don't suit those colours.

If I ran M and S I would sell clothes to suit every season colour-wise. So many women have had their colours done and know what suits them. I am a winter and autumn is the worst time of year for me to buy clothes. The sludgy colours just don't suit me.

I like their Rosie Huntingdon Whiteley stuff, lots of it is real silk...can't afford it though

I think putting it in terms of age is getting it profoundly wrong - as stereotypes usually are.

Look at the number of MNetters over 50 who point out how that sort of casual ageism is rife, and wrong.

And who recommend shopping at New Look and Top Shop, with Uniqlo for basics (cotton Tshirts, knitwear, jumpers, down jackets, thermal underwear)

M&S perhaps could consider ditching the ageism and deciding instead whether they was to major on one-season fashion items, or have a core of good-quality longer-lasting wardrobe staples and workwear. Neither of which are limited by possible age of wearer. Right now, they didn't seem to have a clue what balance to have between those categories.