M&S - it's over

[Floisme]

I've been known to defend M&S on here but if this is their attitude they can fuck right off.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/05/not-just-for-over-55s-ms-chairman-says-chain-needs-younger-clothing

Because of course the over 55s just loved The Pink Dress. And all that yellow. We can't get enough of it.

No, Mr Norman, you haven't been 'buying too much for the over 55 customer'. What you've been buying, is too much shite.

I bought a lovely mini skirt from M &a S last month. I wore it for the first time to a work thing last week and got half a dozen compliments on it, from all ages. And I do like their skinny rib polo neck jumpers.

The only item of clothing I have from M&S is a v-neck blue marl card that I got ages ago, MIL (early 70's) also has one .

I agree with the Uniqlo thing, I want stuff that lasts and love their merino but when I do a search on the M&S website for merino all I get in the women's section is sportswear, merino jumpers are reserved for the menswear section. I go to Gap for long sleeve t-shirts as they're really soft and come in tall so they're nice and long. These are the sort of basics I'd got to M&S for.

I do love some of the flat party shoes that M&S have in at the moment but there aren't any boots or day to day shoes that do it for me.

I really don't see why over 70s should have to put up with Per Una and the Classic Collection either. Can we please lay to rest this idea that old people don't mind wearing horrible clothes? My mum certainly minded very much. What kept her going back to M&S wasn't the clothes, it was a sense of loyalty based on all the values M&S used to stand for and not only the quality. They used to be way ahead of the pack when it came to customer relations - one of the few places where you could return goods and not be treated like shit. They were known too for treating their workforce well: fair pay, staff hairdresser and podiatrist etc. Their management training scheme was the gold standard.

All those things created a real bond with my mum's generation, one which they have shamelessly exploited.

Back in the 60s and into the 70s there was a divide between clothes older women and younger women wore.

Every other store has recognised this but Marks even by their own chairmans words still think that the divide exists.

I am supposedly the age their clothes are aimed at and from what I see when I pass their store I don't even venturing in.
The last purchase I made was a skinny rib very low cut v neck skinny rib jumper in bright red from Top Shop.

I used to really like the Limited Collection when I was in my 20s. Had some nice work dresses and tops, and even a couple of decent Christmas party type dresses. I'm now in my 30s and rarely go to M&S echoey for food. My few ventures into clothing never turn up anything of interest.

My sister dubbed Per Una 'Headmistress gone boho', which I thought summed it up pretty well.

The whole thing is very reminiscent of how C&A ended up. Loads of different brand names and departments. Declining quality. Frustrating shopping experience.

I still like their kids clothes and find them good quality, but they do have rather too many awkward fastenings on the bottoms. Stiff zips and buttons. Why not the poppers that so many other shops opt for?

I do think their clothes are so much better at the moment than they have been for a long time - the nadir being that pink dress. The store was really busy when I visited a couple of weeks ago - partly because they had the 20% off certain items for Sparkes card holders. And as I hadn't bought anything for a very long time, I got 20% off all clothing.

I bought velvet trousers from the Classics Collection! Didn't realise I'd strayed into that section, until I tried them on and, to my horror, saw the label. But surprisingly they looked great on.

MrsSchadenfreude

I also think that for women of my sge (late sixties) that M and S was good for everyday clothes for work and that we could pretty much always get the skirts, trousers, suits, tops that we needed; that made it dependable if unexciting. I still buy skinny jeggings and manage to find about three decent tops in several hundred, but the racks and racks of hideous shapes, in hideous colours and hideous patterns is just awful.
And I wish M and S (and others) would stop with the stuff about it being for seventy year olds. It just isn't. It is patronising, ageist twaddle.
There are frequent threads on here and on Gransnet about how bloody awful it is and they just don't listen.

countfosco has it nailed.

Oh. And my mother is in her 70’s and looks far more elegant and stylish in Boden tailoring and knitwear than any of the M&S offerings she has tried on.

I'm 15 years off the 55 age but I would still like to buy a black or navy suit or at least a pencil skirt for work. Can I heck. I went last month and all I could find were midi lengths in awful fabric and pencil skirts with ruffles. Don't get me started on bras. Everything seems to be padded. I'm not a 13 girl who wants to boost my cleavage. At 36C it's fine and I just need coverage and hold.

Even from a commercial point of view, it seems bizarre for M&S to talk about over 55s as if they're toxic when its arguably that age group who's kept them in business this last 20 years. I thought we were supposed to be the only generation with any disposable cash - we are according to AIBU anyway .

There are so many threads on here detailing exactly what their customers would like and they never, ever listen. Their arrogance is beyond belief and their clothes are awful now. I used to buy masses in there but can't remember the last time I found some I liked (that wasn't cheap material, badly cut, frilled fluff etc). They are so busy chasing the younger market (who won't go near them) that they've forgotten what made them a great store - well cut, good quality clothes. It's no wonder they lurch from crisis to crisis, they just don't listen to anyone in the real world. Just because I'm over 50 doesn't mean that I want elasticated slacks from frumpsville.

I think the article i spot on. In many stores, the footprint that the Classics section gets is far greater than some of the others, so it disproportionately stocks clothing for the older woman (whether you like those clothes or not is a different story) and gives the impression that that is its focus.

I reguarly buy in M&S. Certainly all my underwear, usually my jeans and some of my dresses. Bought 2 dresses last week, smock-style, lovely colours, good cotton, 20 quid each.

Someone else said something I agree with strongly - they need toe expand their good quality basics. Ranges of solid quality cotton tops, v-neck and crew neck, short sleeved and long (like Primark only better). Same with good cardigans of every colour of the rainbow (I like the H&M ones).

And stock some damned maternity clothes!! For such a large clothing store I cannot understand why it has no maternity clothes!? It is bananas.

I agree. I can never find a single thing to wear in M and S that in any way appeals. Even the underwear isn't much to write home about now. Unfortunately, this is the case with nearly all chain shops now. God knows where they get their buyers. I could be a buyer for any one of them and turn their business around. I think all the clothes are made from cheap crappy rayon or something and run up on a sweat shop machine. That's certainly what they look like. I have given up buying clothes to be honest.

What makes you think older women don't want good quality basics?

Also agree with many on here that M&S should just ditch the age splits. Completely agree. In the sale earlier this year I found a gorgeous blouse that turns out to have been 'classics', but was fab over skinny jeans and sandals, for any age. I have happily worn it.

I like their shoes, but their bags and accessories are never of interest.

Not clothes for “the older woman” senzaparole. Clothes for an ageist stereotype of older women.

They need to sort out their stock control. I wandered in there last Saturday morning assuming I'd be able to pick up several pairs of cotton shorts size 12. Not a chance! Several of the designs didn't have a single pack of size 12s.

I ended up with one pack, which really cut into my hips and tummy, and yet the last pack of size 12s were too big.

@FLoisme is that to me? What makes you think older women don't want good quality basics?

I didn't say they shoudln't. In fact, I didn't refer to age at all when I wrote about basics...:

Someone else said something I agree with strongly - they need toe expand their good quality basics. Ranges of solid quality cotton tops, v-neck and crew neck, short sleeved and long (like Primark only better). Same with good cardigans of every colour of the rainbow (I like the H&M ones).

I am in total agreement with the idea they need to ditch the age splits.

All the stores we've talked about as 'getting it right' have an image and a style for their various incarnations - and that image is not based on age.

I really do think they have a problem with attracting younger people, though. And I think Floisme has nailed it with the loyalty thing. They really were a gold standard - and that (rightly) bred loyalty.

That's gone, and there isn't anything really to replace it. What they have at present is a lot of still-loyal customers - who remember that gold standard - and try vainly to buy things (but often leave empty-handed). And we seem to find our loyalty insulted into the bargain.

And - having come to this conclusion - I also feel that ditching the standards of care and quality of clothes on which that initial loyalty was based - is possibly not going to bring success. I also think bubble has a point about the vast stores.

It was the way I read your post Senza. The first paragraph seemed to be about how you thought M&S catered disproportionately for older women and then you went on to talk about how they should expand their good quality basics. It sounded as if you thought the two things were mutually exclusive! Apologies if I got it wrong.

If I was deciding how to turn M & S around

1. Remove the islamic dress code from the "New IN" section on the website. Seem to remember stumbing across that while browsing over the summer. I think it was a burkini.

Its a good way to alienate customers. If someone wants a burkini surely they can search for it. Don't push it on people.

1. Don't create a nice fine knit jumper/quality tshirt/etc in a good neutral colour, and then decide to add sequins/metal/buttons/gawdy motif or print.

We can accessorise with jewelry or scarf or handbag, we don't need it on the garment. Countless times I've seen something nice and picked it up to see weird addtion so put it back on the rail.

1. Some of the Classic pieces are good, don't hide them away at the back. I have a grey cardigan which was pricey for what it is, but gets lots of wear.

1. Reduce the lines. do you really need Autgraph/Indigo/Per Una. what not just M&S? Have a back to basics campaign. Build up the loyalty from the ground up. Keep the quality and natural materials and make that your unique selling point.

1. Remove the islamic dress code from the "New IN" section on the website. Seem to remember stumbing across that while browsing over the summer. I think it was a burkini.
Its a good way to alienate customers. If someone wants a burkini surely they can search for it. Don't push it on people.

What?

By stocking something aimed at a potentially large, unexplored demographic, it is pushing it on people?

Are you mad?

They forced you to buy a burkini?