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Even More Fantastic Skincare And Where To Find It

999 replies

botemp · 16/12/2016 10:37

Thread 1

Thread 2

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1and 2 are worth reading we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between deviations on this thread are mostly my fault. Xmas Grin

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then Xmas Wink. Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

If you want help, have read through the previous threads, but if you still have questions use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer up to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

OP posts:
Thread gallery
41
AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 08:24

Enid yes that concealer is amazing! Haven't taken the plunge myself yet (but have sampled it) as I'm pleased with my EL... but might in the future as it really is smg else. It's also 15 ml, so quite a lot of product.
bo I also wasn't sure which shade suited me better - 1 or 2. Might just have to pop over to experiment Xmas WinkXmas GrinXmas Wink

Welcome to the new ladies!! Totally not a fan of SR Good Genes - it broke me out and i don't get why should I pay £££ for smg that smells like dried up cat piss? Xmas Grin
In general we are aiming to educate ourselves about ingredients in skin care and use what really works, and not what is marketed by bloggers or niche companies that claim to justify £££ products with obscure "research" claims.

Feet just try to keep a very simple routine for s couple of days - cleanser, oil (if you have one), bit of moisturizer and SPF.
Is that new hat made of wool?

AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 08:30

Fizzy what about LRP Redermic R eyes? Here in drugstores you can get tiny free samples of that? It has 0.1 each of two types of retinol and 0.2 caffeine. It does contain dimethicone though.

botemp · 31/12/2016 09:24

freelance, there's a few issues, especially on the back of a thread that grew enormous last year where someone inside the industry revealed a lot of what goes on in the background with these blogs. It confirmed the worst wrt to transparency and opened our eyes even further (mostly how toothless the enforcing body, the ASA, is. Also, how much leeway there is wrt disclosure that's simply impossible to enforce). The thread started in relation to CH but it covered a lot of blogs broadly as they all seem to operate in a way now that suits the industry to push a continual cycle of products (often hard to get and expensive) and not the readers. Most of us didn't have an issue with bloggers wanting to monetise their work but the manner in which it is done felt very dishonest, especially the coordinating management and PR companies that make it all happen.

With CH specifically, there's some common issues with people who binge themselves on her site (and I agree she has her place, makes for a good introduction and the cheat sheets, though many are outdated or missing, are generally good reading) come away with buying too much product all at once, getting horrible reactions as a result and don't really know how to use it all and it ends up being something akin to playing Russian roulette with your face while hoping the next 'miracle' product she's discovered will be your ultimate problem solver.

Far too often I see people under her advice (not having gotten it correctly) double cleansing day and night or even triple cleansing, not understanding how to really use acids or what type of acids to use, using serums and other products that have absolutely no benefit to them or their skin type, she actively encourages to override manufacturer's instruction (fine if you're very knowledgeable and know your skin very well, not so much if you're new to skincare), she often claims something is suitable for all or various skin types when it just isn't, using Retinol during pregnancy and breastfeeding because 'she was fine doing it', sorry but that's not what the warnings are for and they're there for a reason. Companies don't actively discourage anyone to not use something unless they absolutely have to, one anecdotal experience does not make for a universal application (also one of the main issues with product pushing blogs).

It's really a game of poor odds. She'll often change her mind on products, be petty about certain brands because 'something' happened between them either with her company or person or suddenly be lyrical about them after a press trip. There was some very poor advice wrt SPF use in the past, she's changed her tune somewhat but still disregards and hardly gives platform to one of the best anti-ageing and skin restoring performers (unless it's summer when you should be using SPF year-round to get the best benefit from it). She also actively ignores the emergence of Asian Beauty which is a huge skincare trend but she just 'can't be bothered with it unless it ends up on her desk' (courtesy of Cult Beauty) or something in that vein.

I'm aware I sound like a ranty person but I try to be as balanced as I can about her as she does have her use but it's not anyone I actively encourage anyone to follow due to the various issues. What sealed it for me was some sort of scuffle where an Italian Youtuber was targeted by some of her more zealous followers, convinced she was the one behind some sort of 'exposing' website about CH (she manages to pull a lot of vitriol), didn't discourage it, whipped up the frenzy by engaging with something along the lines of 'I knew it! She's always had it in for me!' comments, etc, didn't discourage the retaliations either which included publishing her private phone number and home address. Turns out there was absolutely no connection between the Italian Youtuber and that site, the mistake only seen far too late by her own followers, the woman was harassed extensively, even at her place of work, etc.

Please note, most of this is from memory so may not have remembered everything correctly but a lot of the info should still be visible in those threads (which I'd have to look up again to link).

Good Genes, yeah not the best personal experience from a sample either. It has a very low pH to boost the lowish % of active ingredient, lactic acid, (which isn't all that great) and is like a lot of Sunday Riley products what I call skincare on steroids. Some do see amazing results with it but it's far too harsh for most and far too costly for most to really be using on a regular basis. I think the bottle only lasts a month with most, using it 1x a day. Not anything I'd encourage anyone to buy without extensive sampling of the product. Most of CH's hero products (Pixi glow tonic and a lot of other SR products come to mind) don't come out well on MN though there are also some, like BR P50, PC BHA, P&M Superstar Retinoil, that we also like on here.

OP posts:
botemp · 31/12/2016 09:39

Enid, if there's retinol in an AB product it's likely to be very very very little, it's a known hilarity that the Missha anti-ageing dupe for the EL Overnight Repair that touts its Retinol inclusion on all PR material contains something like 0.0000001% Retinol Hmm.

I'm scared to even wonder what they're charging for the Sisley concealer in the UK, it's well over a $100 in the US (without sales tax) Shock

But yes, it knocks out any colour, I have a bit of blue in the corner of my eye which I don't mind as it's very subtle and natural but concealers can never touch this without using an additional colour corrector, this obliterates it along with the slight sallowness/yellow. When I first swatched them I never thought 2 would suit me but it does an amazing adapting thing. It is a bit of a hybrid, eye cream (though if you need anything more than a bit of moisturising it would fall short), colour correcting (esp. the shade 2 which is very peachy but maybe 1 does the same for fairer skins?), concealer, and eye primer too as it can be used all over the lid.

It's also very different in formulation, don't know if it's cone free from memory now but at the very least very low in the INCI. . I was looking at the LM Candleglow concealer, though, the Secret Concealer has never felt comfy to use in the eye area for me.

I appear to be stuck in ramble mode, will get back to you later with the Skeen info later Fizzy.

OP posts:
hollinhurst84 · 31/12/2016 09:42

£54 botemp on John Lewis website

botemp · 31/12/2016 09:46
  • just to clarify as it now reads that I don't think lactic acid is great above: Lactic acid is great but lowering the pH in a formulation to make it more effective isn't, as a too low pH is disrupting to the skin.
OP posts:
botemp · 31/12/2016 09:48

Oh, that's not too bad Hollin, with the discount it's about that price in euros, is that discounted or the RRP?

OP posts:
hollinhurst84 · 31/12/2016 09:50

That seems to be the RRP, it's actually £41 on allbeauty

botemp · 31/12/2016 09:53

Is that a legit site? How is it that shades on sale are more expensive than the non-sale ones Confused

OP posts:
FizzyBubbly · 31/12/2016 09:56

Aurora I think the Redermic R is the front runner for him at the moment. He's used all sorts of face creams in the past with no reaction so am sure he'll be fine with the dimethicone

hollinhurst84 · 31/12/2016 10:00

Yeah it's legit, I've used it before
I think the £41 is "their normal" price and the cheaper ones are their sale price. If that makes sense

Dulcimena · 31/12/2016 10:08

Well said, botemp. Xmas Smile

AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 10:20

That's a very good price. My EL concealer is about 25€ and it's less than half the amount.

AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 10:28

Yeah also agree with bo. We discussed those issues at length in that very interesting and illuminating thread. It's really worth reading!
Even though lots of bloggers updated their disclaimers after those threads and claimed to work in a transparent way I don't think any of them have changed their ways. I don't really follow any but check from time to time as I'm very curious about the industry practices.

Further - when you check the INCI of some of those £££ products and compare them to Deciem, TO products or AB herb/ flower essence rich stuff you really fail to understand how they can justify those prices.

AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 10:34

Fizzy he could eventually use the LRP on a daily basis and say TO 2% once or twice a week, seeing as it's so affordable.
Just an idea as my TO is still in the box as I'm not done with SC 1%.

botemp · 31/12/2016 11:43

It doesn't make sense at all Hollin, the ones on sale should be the lowest price. It also doesn't help that it shows up in euros on my end, I think. I'm just being pouty as my shade is the most expensive

Fizzy, on Skeen. As mentioned they're a bit French and a smaller company. If we were talking one of the big juggernauts here (and not French) I'd be really damning of them at this point. The eye powder claims to be paraben-free and the entire range claims to be artificial colourant-free on all their communications and website, however, here is the INCI they sent me:

Aqua (Water), PEG-8, Talc, Sodium Carboxymethyl Starch, Glycerin, Methyl Methacrylate Crosspolymer, Titanium Dioxide, Mica, Trimethoxycaprylylsilane, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Triethanolamine, Ascorbic Acid, Caffeine, Sodium Stearyl Fumarate, CI 19140 (Yellow 5), CI 42090 (Blue 1), Methylisothiazolinone, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.

Now as previously mentioned parabens don't concern me too much, those approved for skincare application are still considered safe and have a long history of safe use. For personal reasons wrt them being possible hormone disruptors in a 'rather safe than sorry' mode, I avoid them. Methyl- and propyl- paraben are the most innocuous of the lot. Methylisothiazolinone, however, is one I'd think once or twice about as it's a known irritant and under the advice of dermatological bodies most EU manufacturers have voluntarily chosen to phase it out. It only really is an issue if you're actually sensitive to it. I expect Skeen just doesn't have the funds to overhaul older formulations as of yet but will do so in the future.

I asked for the information mostly as I'd like to find some eye creams with a good % of active Vit C in L-AA (ascorbic acid) form to rec but preferably ones without silicones too for those sensitive to that (so powder seemed like a good starting point). This one does contain some silicones (but for a change, it isn't the main ingredient) which presumably aid in the magic transforming from powder to gel like substance.

Anyhow, it's an interesting one and the reason I mostly think my friend is so happy with it is down to the fact that it's gimmicky and feels tingly. I find men are a bit different when they get into serious skincare, almost getting a bit competitive about it, far more susceptible to marketing talk and suggestive 'research' and are very much convinced by stinging sensations = potent efficacy. He is now also importing the BR P50 1970s version from the US (after I suggested he try the normal P50 knowing he'd love that) convinced the banned phenol makes it so much better (it mostly just feels more stinging Confused). So, yeah, somewhat ambivalent on reccing the powder mostly since for your DH Vit C would be a supportive player, not the main active to help out with the wrinkles so I'd give this a pass for now. They also have yet to get back to me on the % of L-AA and don't think they will answer that.

I do like the look of the Reviving Fluid for Eyes, the % of pure Retinol in that is 0.05%. INCI as follows:

Aqua (Water), Isopropyl palmitate, Caprylic/Capric triglyceride, Caprylyl methicone, Glycerin, Cetearyl alcohol, Dimethicone, Butyrospermum parkii (Shea) butter extract, Glyceryl stearate, PEG-100 stearate, Ceteareth-20, Butylene glycol, Octyldodecyl PCA, Menthyl PCA, Acrylates/C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer, Caffeine, Hesperidin methyl chalcone, Disodium EDTA, Sodium hydroxide, Steareth-20, Retinol, PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil, Sodium citrate, Dipeptide-2, Citric acid, Palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7, Tocopheryl acetate, Tocopherol, Sodium ascorbate, BHT, Sodium ascorbyl phosphate, Ascorbic acid, Chlorphenesin, Methylisothiazolinone, Chlorhexidine Digluconate, Potassium sorbate

Now the retinol % is lower in comparison to the LRP (which is 0.1 pure retinol plus some 0.1 booster) so on the back of that LRP looks to be a better contender for your DH and his specific issues but what I do like about the fluid is the addition of many other beneficial ingredients like Hesperidin methyl chalcone that helps reduce the appearance of black and blue undereye areas as well as being a poweful antioxidant that helps minimise inflammation, Caffeine (though also in LRP), Vit C and E (not in LRP), peptides (including the proven and effective Matrixyl, also not in LRP).

So it makes for a nice all round formulation and that's what I quite like about the brand. It's not going to be the most potent strengths you're going to find out there but the active ingredients aren't there in minimal amounts either to be listed on the box while doing nothing. They aren't the cheapest (though with the 20% off with newsletter sign up it helps a bit) but nor are they downright extortionate. Had they not been a small French company I'd immediately have written them off as willful false advertisers, etc. but they're just not stellar in that department in a typical French small business way. What speaks for them is their formulations, they're very clean, they contain a well-rounded balance of effective ingredients at a level of concentration that won't irritate most people with no needless fillers. They do use silicones but not in insane amounts and generally the well tolerated ones. What they do well is effective products at a mid level price level with as little irritants as possible and concentrations that aren't likely to make your face go insane and would be well suited for those who don't want an extremely extensive routine and use skincare preventatively or not looking for very immediate results. I like that on their website they're very honest about what makes for good skincare, including lifestyle and diet info. They're not promising the world but will deliver something decent without being shouty about it.

There's a few products of interest there, the revitalising serum looks intriguing containing Vit C at 11% - which is a great starting point for Vit C especially if using for general benefits of brightening and collagen production, not looking to reverse pigmentation or scarring, etc. and glycolic and lactic acid. I've asked for the pH as it's a water solution so curious what it is due to stability and whether the glycolic and lactic will perform some exfoliating properties.

Their Anti-Aging concentrated Corrector contains 0.13% pure Retinol which is 0.03% more than the LRP Redermic highest strength (for the face). It also has an additional boosting Retinol form (which I don't know the concentration of). The hyaluronic looks good (if a bit pricey), as does the Correcting Touch a sort of primer/illuminator/dark circle and pigmentation corrector/CC cream (claims to be silicon free but I'd have to check that for certain, definitely has colourant in it) that makes for that bonne mine look but we can't call it any of that as it might sound like makeup for men, which it basically is.

Anyhow for your DH, I think the Reviving Fluid or the LRP Redermic R for eyes will both be a decent starting point, it simply depends on whether he wants to go with the additional beneficial ingredients at the cost of a bit of strength (though they are supporting boosting ingredients and some that work towards the same goals in a different way/on a different level unlike the single booster in the LRP that does much of the same but is of a less proven variety). If he's up for indulging me in an experiment, would he consider doing one eye with your Verso and the other with LRP/Skeen? I'm really quite curious how these square off against each other as I use the Verso preventatively. I'd only really need progress pictures of the eye area now and then Halo.

OP posts:
buckeejit · 31/12/2016 12:35

Thanks bo, I guess my skin type would be combination-occasionally prone to spots round chin. Also, found that LRP serozinc seemed to help long ago, though not sure how much a toner actually ever does?

I had read the previous CH/blogging/social media thread about the hype in products & certainly had my eyes opened. However I have acquired a lot of things & am currently using skincare in a pick & mix fashion. I have followed the CH double cleansing regime but maybe I should strip it back to a few products? My skin is ok, just would like it better! Think I might have some samples of that bb cream also so will hoke it out & have a go :)

AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 14:20

Keep forgetting- JDSTER you can obvs have a Cosrx BHA decant though not sure I still have available containers so it'll take me a few days.

botemp · 31/12/2016 15:51

That's another thing about following CH, it usually results in the pick & mix method due to the sheer amount of excessive product. People often end up imitating her routine that continually changes and has far more product than necessary and with this continual rotation as she's testing it all as a blogger. Very much justified in that sense just not the best approach for non-bloggers as it means these highly priced products never really see the regularity needed to do their thing.

buckeejit and feettothestars you're both in the same boat in that regard. Paring back and focusing on the ones that work for you would definitely be where I'd put the focus on, for now, leaving all the tempting samples, and meh products, etc. to the side for now and aiming for consistency. Time to take inventory and rank everything I'm afraid Smile.

OP posts:
AuroraPolaris · 31/12/2016 17:03

... and pleeeeeaaase do not succumb to the idea you have to spend 40-50£ on a cleanser!
Don't forget that the pricing of this stuff is also determined by retailers and their "shelf" needs and the attempt to create the illusion of luxury. As if by purchasing that product you are guaranteeing results or proving to yourself you are taking care of yourself or you are worth it or something.
I don't mean you shouldn't spend that if you can or that some stuff is not "worth" it, just that it's not a must and that there is a lot of good effective stuff for less that can help you create a good regime.

 A HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!!!!!! 
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SheStoodInTheStorm · 31/12/2016 17:14

This was definitely me Blush

Even More Fantastic Skincare And Where To Find It
SheStoodInTheStorm · 31/12/2016 17:15

I'd be interested in reading those threads if anyone can locate them or can point me in the right direction?

botemp · 31/12/2016 17:30

Oh, Storm, did not mean to single you out or describe you, in particular, just an observation of the many disenchanted CH followers.

Found the third thread here which links back to the other I think:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/2586982-Influencing-the-Influencers-Disclosure-in-Social-Media-Vol-3

I don't know if it still makes for good reading as a lot has been removed by MNHQ and at the request of certain posters as there was a lot of threatening with legal action from CH and SH. There are also a few posters that take extreme glee in ridiculing her for her appearance, etc. which really isn't on but freedom of expression and all that.

Anyhow, on a more cheerful note, HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too Aurora (who I think I met on that CH thread and bonded over our dislike of SR Good Genes then reunited with on the AB threads) and everyone else on the thread (lurkers and contributors alike)! Here's to a skintastic 2017! Wine

OP posts:
SheStoodInTheStorm · 31/12/2016 17:32

Oh and my TO products came today! Ordered Thursday night, dispatched yesterday and delivered today - great service!

Now need to go back and find your advice bo about what to use when and which product to start with --old me would have used everything in one go

Happy New Year to you all, thanks for the advice and product tips! 2017 is for me to be healthier (and this includes healthier skin) Star

Dulcimena · 31/12/2016 17:34

Happy New Year everyone! Great skin in 2017 to all Xmas Grin Wine Star

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