Please define 'frumpy'.....

[LaContessaDiPlump]

This is a TAAT, in case you were wondering! I saw the 'Phase 8 - frumpy or not?' thread and realised that I like quite a lot of stuff in there

I'm 33, 5'5 and a size 18 (hoping to drop a bit soon though). Big mum tum and bum, arms and legs on the larger side. I do have curves though.

Please steer me right Mumsnetters!

I get the internalising it. Every so often I have a "frizzy messy" moment or "too tight/short"
Curvy wordy is another good blog, she often blogs high street stuff too

Curvy wordy. Right, I am on it.

Do the bad messages in your head ever really go away, though? I think I must have had a more permeable nature than most; my sister and DH both seem to have been largely unchanged by their childhoods but I just drag mine around with me.

Just reading this thread and noting the woman who was aghast that unpainted nails were frumpy, do you think that it's now far easier than it was to be frumpy because so many more women make such an effort with their appearance?

Going back a few years it was very unusual to make an effort with your appearance and was considered a bit low-rent to do so (I know it still is in some parts).

I'm just wondering if we all feel frumpy now because there's a Kardashian wanabe on every street.

might have been me.

no. Who wants to look like some oompa-loompa'd, trout pouted, inch-thich made-up duck-waddling female with a huge arse and the dress sense of the proverbial Australian's nightmare? Who could possibly feel worried by that?

who also wants to follow the example of someone famous for NOTHING except her sex life?

that's not 'making an effort'. That's being a pointless airhead. Being pressured by 'celebrities' is also for airheads or small children who know no better. Ignore.

disclaimer - perhaps they are very nice girls in person, of course.

Nah you just learn to ignore them or shut them up
Someone once told me my lipstick was too bright. Previously I wouldn't have worn it anyway, would have wiped it off and cried at home. My reply to her was "too bright for who?"
She went bright red and scuttled off

A propos de rien I've just been browsing the & Other Stories site. It occurred to me that something like this *will absolutely look its best on someone who is not stick thin.

*Link seems to go to more general page. Scroll down (if you care to) to the black neoprene coat.

I'm not stick thin and that would look like a black binbag on me

• While I was seeing "statuesque" and "majestic" ...

I think that on a curvy person who is otherwise streamlined (tidy hair etc), it could work. I would just look like a bag lady!

Have you tried Aveda Be Curly styling creme? I run some through damp hair, post wash, leave it to air dry, and the result is as close to Merida as you can get with fine hair: nicely defined, not frizzy curls. I also learned a couple of Youtube tutorials for pinning up curly hair, so now it looks 'done' when in fact the sum total effort has been twisting it up and shoving in three hairpins.

It IS hard, breaking long-standing negative body image. Shopping with a stylist, rather than a friend, might be useful because you'd have to believe what they were telling you: an objective bystander there next to you going, 'This suits you. This makes your eyes shine. This makes your legs look long. This makes you look FABULOUS.' might drown out your inner Mum voice telling you that you look a mess. I think that's how you get confidence: when your own inner voice shouts louder than the inherited Mum one, 'No, it's official: a complete stranger has told me I look great! And I do look great!' Then, eventually, you believe it yourself.

Another way to break those old negative thought patterns is to ask yourself: WHY did that person say such negative things to me about my appearance? Did your mum have body hang-ups that she was projecting onto you? Is your hairdresser secretly unable to deal with thick, strong hair and thus always likes to get the blame in first? It generally isn't you. Nobody is so grotesquely hideous that someone has to tell them, for reasons of public safety, that they have awful hair or a fat stomach. It's generally because they're either rude, or have Hidden Issues about their own hair/stomach/boundaries.

Anything else on that site that takes your fancy? Or are you aiming at a completely different look?

also goodasitgets you have beautiful hair (and brilliant eyeliner!).

Heels?

Or

No heels?

Some of my random outfits. People usually notice one thing about you - my thing is immaculate makeup. Every single day! So providing I'm wearing that, whatever else I put on is barely noticed! One of my friends always has gorgeous nails

What do you like? As in colours, styles? Whose look do you admire?

I want all your clothes. ALL OF THEM.

Step away from the wardrobe
I v v rarely wear expensive stuff

I'm quite touched by how much effort goodasitgets has gone to!! I love your clothes

I have honestly never thought about who I like. I suppose a general guide would be slightly hippie but not too much so, though. No point in wanting to be streamlined as I couldn't achieve that look with this body hair.

I think my preference would be for no heels most of the time gruach, but the boots are indisputably prettier than the faux converse IMO.

I am jealous of your makeup skills goodasitgets, I am hopeless at it. I always think that I missed a vital teenage girl stage because I never had friends around to play about with makeup.

Oh it's only because I'm a meanie in RL and would be frog marching you around the shops if I could!
I would start by looking at people and thinking what you like, what you don't like, why they look good, what stands out... Do some people watching

My mum is a great "saver" of clothes as well. She is still shocked if I buy something and put it on straight away. I now live by the exact opposite rule to hers: Only buy something you WILL want to put on straight away.

I realised at some point that I really like wearing dresses. They suit me, it's easy to find ones that fit, and people never really think you look scruffy if you're wearing a dress. So instead of wearing them "for best" I just started wearing them every day. It's SO EASY. I'm not saying you should wear dresses as I don't know what would suit you. But what I'm saying is, think about the things that make you feel happy when you wear them, and realise you can wear them pretty much all the time.

Speaking of which, do you own any items of clothing that actually make you feel good?

(And as an aside, I'd like to have a sharp row word with your mum and your husband about boosting your confidence rather than ruining it. That kind of thing makes me very cross.)

You'd need a Ouija board for my mum, Asking, but DH is still here and available for the remonstrating. He did compliment a necklace I bought yesterday though (as a result of this thread!) and said it was very nice and suited me, so go easy on him as I suspect his intentions are good.

I think my mother had Issues, but that doesn't make her internalised voice any easier to ignore....

In other news, I have booked a stylist appointment for tomorrow at my local John Lewis! It's free, lasts for 2 hours and may end up with me buying lovely things. DH has mentally prepared himself for the bill (he was told, not asked) and I am dithering between anticipation and fear :) I do like dresses though as it happens, so may go on a dress spree.

Have a lovely time and come back and tell us about it.

Congratulations on the necklace acquisition!

If you're not busy today you could download the Vogue Runway app (free) and/or English and French Vogue Magazines (£) to your device. Your JL stylist will help you to look nice - but to be truly stylish you might want to include some element of the unexpected, which is something the best magazines are good at illustrating.

Buy the very best quality you can afford/identify. Natural fabrics should be completely reliable - avoid synthetics unless you trust the brand. Check the fabric label, the seams, the stitching, the lining. On every piece!

Shoulders and sleeves shoud fit or be amenable to alteration. Take no notice of size labels. Try sizes above and below.

If it comes to a choice expensive (as in well crafted from the best materials) accessories can carry cheaper clothes (and are an excellent wardrobe investment) but cheap accessories (unless sneakers/trainers atm) will ruin a good quality frock.

Don't buy anything you don't adore and look forward to wearing for years to come.

Oh. Wear clothes you can get in and out of easily!

Your update has made me so happy!

I hope you will really enjoy your personal shopping experience, even if it might feel a little uncomfortable at times. You are worth it and deserve to wear gorgeous, well made, stylish clothing just as much as everyone else!

I have had a terribly negative internal narrative for years as well (maybe on other issues but that's not the point) but lately I've been working very, very hard to change it because I know it's needed in order to progress to the next level in my career. It feels horribly unnatural at first and almost as if you are lying to yourself. It's also almost uncomfortable, because there is a certain comfort in keeping to engrained thought patterns. But it doesn't actually take long to begin to shift things.

This is the start of great things for you