Please define 'frumpy'.....

[LaContessaDiPlump]

This is a TAAT, in case you were wondering! I saw the 'Phase 8 - frumpy or not?' thread and realised that I like quite a lot of stuff in there

I'm 33, 5'5 and a size 18 (hoping to drop a bit soon though). Big mum tum and bum, arms and legs on the larger side. I do have curves though.

Please steer me right Mumsnetters!

I think "frumpy" is that almost involuntary internal response you have when you see someone and you just know. It's maybe a dated style, possibly making someone look older than they are, or maybe wearing clothes that just don't flatter the wearer. But you know that they could look better than they currently do by having a different hairstyle or different pair of jeans or shoes or whatever.

I th.ok you can feel a bit of a frump at transitional times. I did after having DS and finding I couldn't fit into my clothes any more. I didn't want to buy new and tried to make do with cheap stuff, plus comfort was more important.

After awhile I realised that what I wanted to wear had changed, and once I started buying for the way I look now rather than skinny old twenties me in jeans and t shirt, my look came together much more.

Buy things you love. And don't buy everything cheap!

To be honest I think it's mostly about how things fit and how tatty your clothes are. And I say that as someone who has a lot of tatty clothes and probably quite a few that don't fit well.

Frumpy for me would be wearing a fleece with scruffy trousers and trainers, or something. I dress like that often sometimes, but I don't mind feeling scruffy sometimes. Only a few people want to look smart all the time, I think except on S&B

The difference is - can you look nice when you want to? I feel like at the moment, maybe not?

Also I think it's to do with trying to hide. My mum wore a lot of not very nice, faded, ALL black baggy clothes when she was in her 50s and felt crap about herself. Her shape hasn't really changed but she looks enormously better now she wears things like long bright linen jackets or stripy loose but tailored shirts.

midi denim skirt

What are "walking trousers"?

It just means unflattering as far as I'm concerned. I don't think there's a definitive list - even a designer dress will look frumpy on the wrong body.

I really dislike seeing the word applied to people as if it's some kind of personality trait.

Walking trousers
www.gearforgirls.co.uk/kuhl-splash-roll-up-pant/

Dated, practical, classic, comfortable and too safe.

so extracts from some posts on here (not just the last one) leads me to:

frumpy = practical
frumpy = comfortable
frumpy = glasses
frumpy = unpainted nails
frumpy = hair not styled. Aren't I allowed just to comb it then?

Agreed, not entirely the way to dress for a wedding (although hideous florals and stupid duck-waddle fugly heels look bloody awful, and people do wear that to weddings), but for real life - practical and comfortable does not equate to wearing a sack.

oh, and I saw a recent photo of a lovely bride wearing specs. And a big smile.

Thank you, museumum. Those are what we in the US call "cargo pants."

OP - if you are scared people will laugh at you, perhaps it's because you're thinking of a completely new look that's not 'you' rather than a just bit more polished and stylish version of you - so if you are normally a trainers, shapeless jeans and jumper type, then you might feel rediculous in bodycon dress and skyscraper heels. But then you could go with more flattering jeans, a fitted jumper in a more fashionable style/colour would be a good start, changing trainers to boots or loafers, adding jewellery or scarf...

If you normally pick clothes to 'hide' your body, could you think instead about which bits are the best and start dressing to highlight those, not just negatively think about the bad bits being the priority.

It's hard to define in terms of individual items.

Say, waterproof hiking trousers on some hippy traveller type to facilitate their world adventures, or at work my colleagues who wear them look great because they wear them to facilitate the amazing (physical) job they do. Ditto with the dreaded fleeces.

Or even someone who has a very, very hard job and maybe craves absolute comfort when they are not working.

But the same clothes on someone (male or female) who doesn't really work out much and doesn't NEED to wear them, and has bought them to buy into a "be invisible, avoid criticism, avoid having to choose anything" lifestyle.

I think it's more of an attitude - dressing like you are afraid of engaging with life.

I'm with floisme. Frumpy is dressing to unflatter.

My mother would say I do it. I'm a big fan of clumpy boots, big cardigans and tea dresses. She describes it as my 'Mildred Hubble being a librarian' look.

Personally I feel frumpy when:
I put on a bit of weight
my hair grows out of style
I wear ill fitting clothes
I wear clumps footwear
I wear bright or bold prints

If you normally pick clothes to 'hide' your body, could you think instead about which bits are the best and start dressing to highlight those

But that would mean looking at it. I try not to do that, unless it's to check whether I look a little thinner that day.

This is why you are not going to begin with clothing, which focuses your attention on you, but with one beautiful thing that does not depend on you to look lovely.

There must be something you've seen on other people or in magazines and always coveted? A trilby? An enamel bangle, leopardskin stilettos? Don't try to be practical - find something that takes your breath away and makes you feel lucky.

To me, frumpy is all about hem lengths. The slightly too short trousers, the slightly too long skirt. The hems that hit you in the wrong places. And lack of colour.

If you can't look at your body and like it- even in its fatter state- you have bigger problems than being frumpy.

Which of us is perfect? I am overweight but I still love and look after my body, and dress it nicely because, well, it's me.

You are worthy. I think acceptance is the way to go here- be a little kinder to yourself. I am sure others see more than the shape of your body when they look at you, please don't judge yourself so harshly!

Gruach the op asked what frumpy is to us, I gave my opinion. It's not nonsense, it is exactly what I think is frumpy. If I wore the clothes my Nan wears, I would feel frumpy!

Thank you for reminding us all about your opinion of elderly women, flangabelle.
the majority go for comfort over style, very bland colours, boring shapes etc.

Do you not get out much? Or do you just never look at elderly women?

"But that would mean looking at it"

When you go clothes shopping do you not look in the mirror to see what he clothes look like on you?

I acknowledge that my response was harsh.

But I understood the OP to be asking (misguidedly) for a definition rather than my experience extrapolated to global proportions.

What is a cat?

A cat is a dead thing buried in my garden.

Is that a helpful answer that expands our understanding of the thing?

And this is MN. Hundreds of thousands of people, the focus slanted towards women - who are the only ones likely to be called frumpy - and it's pretty outrageous to be told that, unless you have the good sense to die before you reach, say, 75, your default future is one of frumpiness. While at the same time somewhat smugly implying that one escapes frumpiness simply by not being old.

But perhaps that's not what you meant?

I sort of avoid looking at my reflection until the clothes are in place and then risk a look, bunbaker. I am then pleasantly surprised sometimes by the thought that the item looks nice. This is often disrupted by the certain knowledge that it will look much less appealing when I try it on again at home, though.

I used to smile at the mirror when I first entered the cubicle in a sort of attempt to establish friendly relations before the changing proper began.

Basically what I'm looking for from this thread is a quick guide to not dressing like someone who visibly has no interest in their appearance.

LaContessa you sound so funny, and perceptive, yet so down on yourself. Posters could make a comprehensive list of every item of clothing that's frumpy, then another one detailing all the failsafe stylish ones, and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference because you'd somehow convince yourself that you don't qualify to wear the stylish clothes anyway. Style - cliche klaxon - really is a state of mind. I really like gruachs idea: you've got to retrain your brain to believe you're the sort of woman who looks great in a bright scarf, or a pair of red boots. Everything else, slowly, comes from that attitude that yes, you are worth spending money on, you are worth taking care of, yes, you are the kind of person who can look stylish. Because you ARE!!

this isn't going to happen - Basically what I'm looking for from this thread is a quick guide to not dressing like someone who visibly has no interest in their appearance - until this is somehow knocked on the head: the certain knowledge that it will look much less appealing when I try it on again at home, though. Please consider going to a shopping stylist somewhere 'safe', like John Lewis: they're friendly, approachable people (they wouldn't last long in their jobs if they weren't!) who aren't, in my experience, on a hard sell. They'll find clothes that they know will suit you, and save you that miserable 'it doesn't fit/look right/suit me' feeling you get when you wander around what feels like a never-ending maze of clothes. Give it a go. Allocate a small sum you can easily afford, and ask them to put together one outfit that makes you feel great. I went when i'd got into a real 'jeans and a top' rut before my 40th birthday and left feeling about ten years younger and a size smaller.

You already know style is more about confidence than appearance. That's really all you need, a bit of confidence. Personally, I find confidence for me always starts with matching underwear: have you had a good bra fitting recently?