Amanda Holden Bad Botox

[Zanzibaragain]

Dear lord her face looks terrible on This Morning.
Is it the botox or the fillers that makes a face look so weird?

Maybe if you are a chav or live in Essex then.

thing is, truly natural breasts would be breasts as they would be if you never wore a bra, a truly natural face would be one without moisturizers or sunscreens, truly natural hair...well you get the picture.

We designate things to the natural and unnatural categories according to varying and socially constructed criteria ?

If you look at a programme like Real Housewives of Beverly Hills they all have a look that probably appears natural to them but looks plasticy to an outsider looking in.

yes, what looks natural is relative rather than absolute, and it shifts

Don't you think this entire thread has been over thought a tad?

I mean - if you want to have some help via injectibles, have them. if you don't, then just don't, but stop making it into some deep and meaningful socio-psychological issue , cos it really isn't- any more than using nail varnish or hair dye.

Overthinking?
I thought it was an interesting in depth exploration of the relevant issues ?

hair dye clearly has profound cultural and sociological significance

All depends on the level of engagement each of us wishes to have with the subject really.

You can skip along the surface or go deeper- up to you. :)

sometimes its fun to surf
other times its interesting to dive in deep :o

I don't see it as overthinking to wonder why we're made to feel so insecure about looking older or even - god forbid - tired. I can care about how I look and still question some of this stuff.

I think it's really important to explore the reasons why some people want to freeze their faces with poison to the point where they have no expression.

bit heavy on the old rhetoric there DameDiazepam!

Flo- why do you use the word 'insecure' out of interest?

Do you associate someone's desire to look good as a sign of insecurity and if so, why?

No, not at all, Pinkfrocks, I'm probably as interested in looking good as you are.

But I think the anti ageing industry is playing on our insecurities about looking older (which, in fairness are probably there already) and that they're getting nicely rich in the process.

I think liberal feminism sometimes gets too obsessed with depicting 'feeling good' whether it be through cosmetic surgery or the use of porn (two examples) as a simple feminist 'choice' when in fact the issues and drives behind them are far more complex. And may not be about true choice either.

Liberal feminism can be argued as promoting a one-dimensional view of women in which market forces (the cosmetic industry, the porn industry) encourage women to mistake true agency for feeling so concerned about their own ageing face and body that they have surgery and semi surgery performed upon it. They then reframe these interventions as born of 'true choice' when in fact it may be that the truly happy woman is born of a culture that places no pressure upon her to worry about ageing or see it as something negative.

This celebrity culture is both product of harmful patriarchal and cultural norms and reproducer of them (because it pays them to).

You may think you are making a free choice to use botox but are you truly?

it is surely axiomatic that celebrity culture (since it is part of the wider culture and not counter culture) arises out of and propagates patriarchal norms.

I don't really see what your point it LilAnnie....unless it is just intended as a demonstration of sophistry?

But if you are insecure that usually means you worry about being rejected- by someone- or worry about what people will think .

It implies someone does something so they will be liked or popular.

It's quite possible to want to look good for yourself and not give a toss about how 'society' regards you, but you want to look ok when you look in the mirror.

I don't know what axiomatic means- care to say?

Jeez Suzanne what an ugly thing to say. Okay....I'll keep it fucking superficial then to avoid antagonising you.

What colour lipstick do you like best?

You may think you are making a free choice to use botox but are you truly

of course it's not a free choice, none of us is totally free, we are all products of the culture that we live in, men and women alike.

LilAnnie- the arguments you pose are all about whether free will exists or not. Another thread maybe?

lack of sophistry does not equate to superficiality, again I dont understand your point LilAnnie?

axiomatic? why of course

Yes, interesting question, free will. Don't think MN has philosophy or theology threads?

it's been done to death for millennia, nothing to be added to the debate, the question of free will is not answerable