am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

If you want to do it just do it and bugger what anyone else thinks. The joy of feminism is that you get to make your own decisions, it's simply nobody else's business.

niceday- I think that I an the best judge at deciding what I think looks nice.

I don't know how many times, or in how many ways, I have to keep saying this- but my idea of form and beauty is all mine; it is not absorbed in an osmotic way from anything around me.

Just as you can look at a work of art and feel unmoved, I can look at it and love it. Same with body shapes, haircuts, lippy and boobs.
Got it now?

Feminism in essence is about equality, celebration of femininity and liberation. Ava the feminist question here must be - what will truly liberate you? It is not a question of right or wrong, or one that should revolve around others' beliefs.

(As an aside, your question isn't one about medical risks etc, however, if it was me, I would be more interested in a discussion on the risks, the expense, the best doctors, and other "factual" pros and cons of a boob job in your circumstances.)

purplepeony - thanks! I'm really impressed!

Most people I know are influenced by trends, images and opinions of people they respect.

Could you share your secret - how do you avoid it?

Personally, I think it's a lot of discomfort and an unnecessary operation, so I couldnt justify it to you. Sorry.

I'd buy some chicken fillets, or even better treat yourself to some sexy underwear, before deciding to opt for surgery.

Google What Katie Did Underwear - this always makes me feel beautiful.

Plenty of people avoid it niceday. It is about having inner confidence and understanding what really makes people attractive.

OP - you might find [[http://theshapeofamother.com/ this website interesting.

It is called shape of a mother and it shows real pictures of what mothers really look like.

I am not sure what I think. I am a feminist and I see the influence of advertising/media/culture around us. I see the inequality between women being expected to do so much to improve their appearance compared to men.

I suggest you read the Beauty and Misogeny book seth linked to - you can actually read quite a bit of it on amazon.

It's difficult isn't it if you have feminist principles because we're all living in an unequal society.

I find it difficult to draw the line between accidental damage/curing an "abnormality"/turning back the clock etc etc.

I have acne scarring and some really deep lines on my forehead - including a vertical one of a cm. My teeth are much more yellow than average. My boobs are pretty uneven.

But I worry that if I addressed these things would I then move onto a second tier of "issues"?

I saw a poster at a train station recently - changing faces campaign - it made me think a lot about judging people on their appearances.

Not sure if any of this has helped.

BTW as a feminist I don't judge individuals but I judge the society/system in which we live.

Shape of a Mother website

Changing Faces Campaign

niceday- I don't know. maybe it is simply because i am very old...and I have had time to find what my values are and who I am.

To those of you who say to the OP "buy a padded bra" can you tell her how to cope when she takes it off?

I know this is off topic slightly, and I am not worried about my breasts as they are nice IMO. However, years back I did have severe facial eczema for 10 years. it changed my personality. I went from being reasonably confident to becoming an almost recluse and relying on make up to cover the redness and flakiness. I hated meeting new people. Going out for the day was a nightmare as I would need to take tubes or bottles of moisturiser and make up to touch up, as by the end of a day my skin was itchy, flaky and red.

Very fortunately, I found a means of treatment which worked, and it was only afterwards that I realised how much my confidence had been bound up by my appearance, and feeling that my face was horrible.

So I can understand how the OP hates a part of her body which has changed.

It is no good suggesting chicken fillets or padded bras- these might give the impression she wants but not when she is alone in the shower or naked.

FGS it's not a big deal to have small boobs!!! I have small boobs and have always felt sexy, happy about them and about my body. If I want to show off I put a push up bra and a low v shape cut top. I have never felt unsexy because I have an a cup. Never. Naked or dressed. Am I immune to pressure from society, no, am I a feminist well maybe, but small breasts look good ladies! Sometimes I go swimming and I look at younger women who have large boobs and frankly I have to make an effort not to look horrified. OK mine are heading south a bit so be it. They've given me years of pleasure it's not a big deal.

What you need to do is shake yourself up and be happy. Feeling sexy is something that happens in your head, not how your looks or cup size.

Ava I have much sympathy with you. I don't think that your decision is a feminist issue, it is something that you want to do for you to make you happy.

I thought that one of the points of feminism was to have equal rights and equal choices, including empowering us to make decisions that other women may not approve of.

I have 3 friends who had reductions in their early 20s because their enormous chests made them miserable and hurt their backs and I would never dream of judging them (one going from a J at 19 to a D) because they chose that for themselves.

If it is really making you unhappy and you think that it will make you feel better then go for it. However as other posters said make sure you are happy with the risks, though I know this is a separate issue to your actual question.

As someone who was big before BF I do now have big womble noses (a much grimmer thing than small wombles I think )and I gather that fixing that is hard so though, like you, every time I see myself when I get out of the shower I feel a bit sad, I don't think I will do anything about it. But if I did, frankly it is my choice, and I don't think I would be letting down the sisterhood if I did.

When my teeth were crooked I got a brace, I dye my hair, wax and I use whitening toothpaste. I always thought feminism was a way to express equality through my own actions and choices and I don't consider that I do these things to change the way people see me as a woman, nor that if I didn't do it I would be less valued by society, if anything I have always felt that other women judge more by appearances than men do.

Good luck and I hope that whatever you decide you feel better about yourself soon and I am sure that your previously supportive family will still be supportive, they are probably also scared by the risks - again a separate issue from "letting down the sisterhood".

Blueberry: don't think you need to shout, particularly when you've missed the point entirely. the point isn't about having small boobs, i've had them for years and liked them. it's about having post-breastfeeding boobs which are empty and flat. it's great that you feel so confident. i used to feel pretty happy too, and certainly never envied younger women with large boobs. i don't want large boobs. did you read any of my other threads on here?

and to everyone else who has mentioned padded bras: i wear padded bras, and i look like a flat woman wearing a padded bras.

to everyone who has mentioned chicken fillets: i wear chicken fillets and i look like a flat woman wearing chicken fillets. (and i feel stupid and crap while i'm wearing them. which isn't to say i might feel stupid and crap with fake ones under my skin, before you point this out.)

to everyone who says wait and they will come back: i never had them in the first place, so how can they come back?

i appreciate all of your comments, and i think i've touched some nerves here. thank you all for posting, and thank you for your offers of advice and help.

yes but feeling confident and happy with how you look is a feeling that you get from the inside. Plastic surgery might improve how you feel about one part of your body but having a changing body is part your life history.

Blueberry- I disagree, it is not just about how you feel inside. read my previous post a couple ofposts down and you might understand.

If it was simply about confidence coming from within, why does the Red Cross spend a lot of money training people to help people who have facial disfigurements such as birth marks and scars, which they are shown how to disguise with carefully applied make up?

purplepeony all I can say is perhaps she could practise positive thinking about them.

My breasts are aa cup and I've bf 3 kids so I imagine they look the same as the ops.
When I look at mine I feel a pleased glow because they are fun in bed , I think they look cute and they've done their job with the kids which was useful!

I used to feel conscious of my bum-I'm a pear shape and it's out of proportion
with my top half. So I deliberatly set out to think positive about it. Now I feel that it gets me around, it's comfy to sit on the only people looking are probably fancying it as opposed to thinking critically about it.

Has the op had a look at her mates boobs in the changing rooms at all-not that I'd encourage spying on people, but a discrete glance? My mates boobs are all shapes and sizes and those of us over 30 and who've bf all look less pert than we were.

purplepeony - I think like many others here I have to disagree with one of your statements which is at the base of most of your arguments, I quote you:

"I think anyone who is honest- and I mean honest- would say that certain body shapes and proportions look better than others. (...) If you go back to Roman and Greek times, the female form has been celebrated in sculpture and art and what was deemed beautiful has changed little."

I do not think it is about honesty, I think that we are, without a doubt, influenced by environmental and social expectations and preconceptions about what being beautiful means. I know that we cannot pretend that these assumptions do not exist, but we can try to challenge them in our own way hoping that one day they will change.

Our own Western culture has its roots in Roman and Greek culture and therefore it is not surprising that our ideal of beauty resembles the classical one. If you look at other cultures, you will see that the ideal of beauty is by no means universal. Here is a website which explains what the Mayans considered to be the ideal of beauty:

www.mayankids.com/mmkpeople/mkbeauty.htm

(It is a children's website, please do not think I mean to be patronising with this)

Sorry for the hijack and OP, please know that I, as a fellow small breasted woman, do not judge you. I just wish that we were not made to feel inadequate and unfeminine just because we lack a few grams of flesh in a certain part of our bodies.

Ava -please please go to Primark and spend £5 on their ultimate boost or whatever it's called bra-they come in loads of colours and they make me look like a b cup no problem-buy a b cup and put your fillets in there=it's AMAZING!

It's only £5 and you won't regret it. My runner mate has always been pin thin and flat chested (and bf 2 kids) and she was shopping with her dh last week and he told her to stop wearing her primark bra because men were checking out her boobs!

Hello Ava,
firstly, sorry you're feeling sad about this.
Just wanted to address this line in your OP:
'am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape'

The thing is, I don't see how that's not going to be confusing to them if you have the surgery...

I've had a past illness which has warranted fairly extensive surgery and left part of my body, well, mutilated to be frank, so I do completely understand that 'feeling-sad-that-things-have-changed' emotion. Occasionally I get out of the shower and feel a bit wistful too - for what I used to look like. But it's always fairly transient, because I'm here, and life is thankfully so much more than a part of my body. And you know what, there's nothing wrong with feeling a little wistful sometimes - a little sadness doesn't always need to be 'fixed'. I think it teaches me that living well is about accepting change, that memories are great, and that there are new things to appreciate with each change.
I can't persuade you to feel the way I do; I can only say that I'm really glad that I feel this way, because it feels healthy to me.

I find it really interesting that no-one is talking about the evils of feeling pressured to wear fillets/padded/ultimate boosts or whatever they're called. isn't that the thin end of the same wedge? having cosmetic surgery is a bad thing because its kow-towing to Society's message that breasts=good/real woman, but wearing cantilevered, fake underwear to give the illusion of the same isn't?

independiente: i am very struck, and moved by your message. thank you.

Bull's eye. Let's all leave our bras in the drawer tomorrow morning. Let's see if the world stops turning.

I agree Ava, we should be talking about that too.

I mentioned it because you said you felt crap in them when you'd worn them and I was hoping you'd feel better in the one I'd suggested.
Wearing fillets is obviously the thin end odf the same wedge and from a feminist perspective is crap.
However, you seem really set on this and surely £5 is preferable to £5000 or whatevcr it costs? I just thought buying a bra would be easier than being cut.

I feel that the size 12 clothes my torso fits were designed with 36bs in mind and look better if I fill those flappy bits of material up.

That doesn't mean I don't like my breasts-they're great!