am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

SethStark - I said I thought it was BECOMING unisex.

I think that when women wrestle with this body image dilemma it is portrayed as women being victims of social pressure. A body obessed man is seen as a narcissisist but not so much a vicitim. I do think the pressure is much more on women but young men are becoming much more likely to have stuff done too. White teeth etc. But my nephews don't obsess about it. They do it so 'the chicks will think they're buff'. My own opinion is that accepting ourselves as we are is likely to bring us much closer to happiness but there will always be men and women who will do everything they can to persue a perceived ideal. Most of us just get on with though.

And if someone has made an informed decision and really thought about all the implications of having some 'work' done, they should have the moral freedom to do it. I am uncomfortable with the whole thing personally but wouldn't take the risk of GA and major sugery to get rid of my stretchy and saggy stomach. The Spanx woman knew what she was doing when she set up that business.

When I stopped bf, my boobs seemed a bit empty in the top part. It took a good 18 months for them to look normal again.

OP I don't think it is possible to unpick society's norms from your own opinions about what is attractive on yourself.

If we lived in a society that revered saggy boobs (perhaps because they were evidence of successful childrearing) then you would be embracing your AA cup.

Having said that, give yourself a couple of years as your boobs may regain some volume (mine did!). If you still feel the same in 2 years, revisit the idea.

Ava I haven't read the whole thread but it is something that I have thought about too. I think you are absolutely right to consider it. Haven seen the changes three children have made to my body, it is one of the things I really would consider.

I don't think I would stand up to any serious feminist scrutiny but have an engineering degree, worked in all male factories and male dominated industries but I do dye my hair, wear make up, magic knickers and push up bras!

The sisterhood has many factions and though they don't agree with each other, they are not all wrong.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

After three children and 3 stone weight loss my breasts are now 32B/C rather than the D/E cup I had for most of my life. I can handle small but saggy and droopy is disheartening every time I get out of the shower.

I think, if you want surgery then go for it.

I certainly would consider it and have one friend (also a mother of 3) who claims her breat augmentation is the best thing she's done.

My mother also thinks I'm mad to consider unnecessary surgery.

yes it was me that brought up the comparative issue of broken noses.

i'm sorry but i still want to push the point the restorative surgery is not a feminist issue. i had a riding accideent when i was 19 and ended up having plastic surgery on my face (theres a photo on my profile - bet you cant spot the work ;-) ) to tidy up the scarring etc. should i have turned it down? should i have lived the next 12 years with visible scars that upset me because that'll show those chauvenists!!

we all commit acts of self preservation that benefit us and those around us. i dont think thats anything to feel guilty about.

:-) at mistyB - makes me think of peggy seager singing 'i wanna be an engineer'

I could have written most of your post OP. DD2 is 8MO and I will be looking into it next year.

I barely fill an AA cup, seriously, I struggle to find a bra that fits. I find looking at and touching my breasts a bit depressing really. I loathe underwear shopping. DH is very supportive says I look beautiful as I am but is happy for me to look into it if I think it would boost my confidence in a big way.

As for the feminism aspect, I do worry about that and how society has affected the way we feel about our bodies. I agree heartily with the poster who said 'how do you know that if we lived in a society that revered small saggy breasts you wouldn't feel differently'. But, we don't. And we'll never know and the point is that I think maybe there comes a point when it's worse to spend every day obsessing about it than actually get the bloody thing done and move on with the rest of your life.

Having said that I am absolutely bloody terrified of the unnecessary surgery aspect and of dying on the operating table. The thought of my DDs growing up without me because I couldn't live with my breasts fills me with horror. Also, OP if you don't mind me asking, are you going to tell them or do you think you'll be able to keep it from them? I sort of hoped if I did it before DD was about 4 (and like you I'm only interested in going up to a B cup) she wouldn't really cotton on. Perhaps I'm being naieve? The point is as others have said I think it's very different making an informed decision as a woman in your 30s to deciding aged 18 that you haven't got the 'perfect' breasts - and if I thought my DDs would grow up with body issues as a result of my decision then obviously I wouldn't go ahead. Would be really interested to hear your thoughts but appreciate that's not really the subject of the thread.

'should i have lived the next 12 years with visible scars that upset me because that'll show those chauvenists!!

we all commit acts of self preservation that benefit us and those around us. i dont think thats anything to feel guilty about.'

no, of course you shouldn't, and I have said from the very beginning of this thread that these things are your choice.

some people seem to think saying something is a feminist issue = feminists saying 'you must do x or feel guilty'. That's not what feminists (or none of my acquaintance, anyway) are saying.

Also I do think there's something quite fundamental about breasts as other posters have said. Yes, I do think we should live with our ageing post-children bodies to an extent but saggy tummy is just not the same thing. Like it or not breasts are one of the main things that physically distinguish us from men and not having any breasts to speak of can be really dispiriting and make you feel very unfeminine, something that no amount of exercise etc would change.

OK, I have only read page 1 but wanted to jump in here ... OP, I have, from the sound of it, very similar boobs to you and have been thinking along similar lines but haven't made my mind up yet (I'm 41 and last BF 13 years ago, if it's relevant).

I'm not really bothered by the size of mine, just the way they look like empty sad little bags (or womble's noses as somebody eloquently put it on another thread ). I am wary of having implants, just because I think they might look ridiculous when I am really old - does anybody know if it's possible to get them just lifted without having anything inserted into them?

As far as the argument about having unnecessary surgery and a GA goes, well, I opted for a tubal ligation when I decided I didn't want any more kids. Hardly necessary - there are plenty of other less "drastic" contraceptive alternatives, but for me it was a great decision which I have never regretted.

I don't think you're letting the side down at all, any more than is a woman who wears makeup, de-fuzzes her body, wears high heels ... I thought we were past all that.

Don't want to offend as I know it is really hard when you are constantly bombarded with images of what beauty is. But I do see it as bizarre that someone would have an unnecsessary op inserting foreign bodies into their body when chances are they look totally normal compared to most other 'natural' women. Also, every time women conform they are making it harder in many ways for other women/girls.

I hope in the future people will be shocked that women actually submitted to these sorts of procedures because the only definition of beauty is young and pert. It's a whole industry built on women's low self esteem. If we were always shown normal womens bodies, variety of shapes/ages etc would we want it 'done for ourselves?'
'i would like to do this for myself,' is usually because of societal pressures. Also, how long ago did you have your babies as they often 'fill up' again a couple years after especially if you are on hormonal contraception.

Your post could have been written by me, I absolutely sympathise with you and can identify with what you have said. I would love to be able to fill a swimsuit nicely. A friend of mine actually had one done on the NHS after breastfeeding two kids - you wouldn't have known if she hadn't said, they were just the same as before she gave birth.
My husband reassures me that he finds me attractive - but I think that our sex life would improve if I had a boob job as I would find myself more womanly.
It would definitely be for me and not him.
So yes, if you have the cash, then definitely go for it. Don't read so much into what other people are saying. More people have had it done than you think!
Good luck.

SWC - sorry, didn't mean to undermine anyone else's issues IYSWIM. And I'm also genuinely sorry that you've had other much worse things to worry about. I'm just saying having a boob job doesn't alone equate to not accepting the deterioration of one's body. There are plenty of things about my ageing body that aren't great but that i have no problem living with - for me having breasts of some description is quite fundamental. I don't want perfect zoo-mag styley breasts and the body of an 18-year-old, it would just make a huge difference to my confidence to actually have breasts.

If it makes a big difference to someone's quality of life and isn't likely to spiral out of control into some kind of cosmetic surgery addiction I think it's not an unreasonable step to take.

Personally, I would never have foreign bodies like silicone put in to me; but then I have had to endure operations and anaesthetics too many times to put myself through it if I felt it unnecessary, and I am prone to infection.

However, this is something you want to do not because you fancy a new life as a stripper, but because you have found yourself at a point in life where you don't feel you look like yourself and you want that identity back. Feminism doesn't come in to it AFAIAC.

OP - google 'boob job supot forum' its a great site with sensible info and normal women chatting, not just dd wannabes

sorry

'boob job support forum'

As much as I would like to have firmer breasts post children and a tighter stomach, I feel cosmetic surgery for things like this is a symptom of an indulgent society, and I feel GAs and the risk of infection from an operation should be left for times it is really needed.

I do sympathize with your feelings though and fantasize about cosmetic surgery for my post baby tummy sometimes.

I agree totally with swc

We have to learn to deal with the inevitability of ageing and no longer being attractive. The cosmetic surgery industry is just that, an industry, and they are marketing their product to make us believe we need it - before (bad) and after (perfect) pictures etc.

On another point, I think there is an illusion that people believe that other people are actually bothered about what they look like. I find that incredibly vain. I don't for a second think that anyone else is slightly interested/bothered/impressed/unimpressed by what my breasts look like. They may have a glance, but any long term meaningful relationship, which IMO is what life is about, has no relevance to my breasts. So to continue this further, the reason why I may want to have breast surgery (I don't) is to impress strangers, and probably only at an initial meeting whereupon any 'impressed' feeling will disappear as a relationship develops.

I sympathise about you having negative feelings about your body and would try and break down the negative feelings and rationalise them rather than opt for surgery.

I felt the same way about my boobs for years, but then I put on a little bit of weight (I had got very thin) and my boobs came back and really rather nice and round now.
Eat a little more and do a little less and your breasts will improve. Don't have surgery, as it makes breast lumps/cancer harder to detect I believe, plus a boob job only lasts for 10 years and then needs redoing! Expensive and as the skin quality gets worse, I don't think the results are so great the older you get (I may be wrong here). Also they often encapsulate (go hard) and never look very 'real' in the first place.
In the meantime, buy a booster bra (Ultimo bras are brilliant and comfortable), use chicken fillets, and keep bra on when having sex if it makes you feel better and your husband/partner doesn't mind. It'll help you feel sexier. My husband didn't care about my boobs nearly as much as I did. Don't worry. You're still gorgeous and young and they will get better I'm sure.

Depends how much it's interfering with her quality of life, surely, SWC. In the long run, it might work out cheaper (and a lot more effective) than, for example, years of treatment for depression. Without knowing the details it's impossible to say if this case was trivial or life-saving.

I don't accept this is necessarily about conforming, either, as jellybeans asserts. I never wear makeup, hardly ever get rid of body hair (even though I am much hairier than the average woman), don't dye my grey hair, only have long hair because I can't stand going to the hairdressers, never diet or even weigh myself ... on the whole, don't pay much attention to how I look at all, whereas I feel really self-conscious about my boobs every time I catch sight of them. For me, a successful boob job would help me forget about what I look like again and just get on with life.

Ava - only you can answer whether you're doing this for yourself or for society. But from your posts, I think you are doing it for yourself and you should go right ahead.

My experience is from the opposite side, but it might add clarity. I had a breast reduction in my early 20s. By breasts were very large and were starting to sag, even though I was still very young. But, to the outside world, the fact that I had large breasts was a boon - complete strangers thought it was okay to comment on them or tell me how lucky I was, men would make inappropriate comments at bars and throughout, I was supposed to be happy and grateful that I had these huge boobs that everyone liked. So my decision to reduce them was met with absolute shock and increduality by almost everyone I told.

But, I did it for myself. I did it because I hated being defined by the size of my breasts and I hated that I always felt fat and uncomfortable. I had a wonderful doctor who told me that even if I wanted to reduce to a A or even a small B he would not do it as in his experience, it makes women unhappy after. If anything, he left them too large and I am definitely still a large breasted woman. But I feel better about myself. I did almost from the moment I had the surgery. And I would make the same decision over and over again if I had to.

purplepeony why can't you accept that some people want to look good for themselves?

The question is WHAT makes them WANT it?? WHO sets the standards of what is good looking?
So in China they considered small size female feet good looking..

I'm with swc et al on that.

OP - if that's a wardrobe problem for you (inconvenient slipping bras) then maybe you could look for a wardrobe solution?