am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

• you can argue that perky breasts are less attractive...or rather that withered one are more attractive...

was not directed at you the feminist/thread title thing, someone brought it up, was too lazy to scroll back and find out who

I agree with Bonsoir.

I can't see how this has amything remotely to do with feminism- but first we would need to agree what that means anyway.

I think of myself as a feminist- first woman of my family generation to go to university, have a career and be independent, but dose that mean I don't want to look my best- or that I am somehow conforming subconsciously to a man's ideal of womanhood? Nope.

I have had 2 minor procedures in the last 2 years- a mole removed from my lipline and my teeth whitened. Both were making me self-conscious and I am delighted I had them done.

I don't know how to explain why I personally think that pert breasts look better than floppy. Art depicts both; you can have either your Lucian Freud, or your Venus de Milo. It's a bit like saying do you prefer to look at a well toned 6 pack on a man or a flabby beer belly? ( so it's not just women that are trying to look good.)

I think it is a mistake to confuse feminism with an appreciation of the human form.

What I'm trying to say is, Faaamily, is that to disprove so much of any plastic surgery (and in case of, let's say just getting a breast lift after pg and bf, it's more of a reconstructive, corrective procedure) is to deny any right to attach any importance to the aesthetic of out bodies.

exactly, purple

Is having discoloured teeth whitened against tenets of feminism, as well?

full but most definitely not perky - they literally reach her navel

I have also seen a lot of African carvings in which the breast shape being idealised is long and pointy - breasts dangling down as far as your waist as a good thing. I think it's more subjective than we think.

Sethstark - where did you get that pic? I am so like her it's uncanny. I must go out an be worshipped at once.

A feminist would not say such-and-such a procedure is wrong, she would ask why the double standard; nothing wrong with anyone getting their teeth whitened per se but if it became clear that many women were feeling they had to have their teeth whitened (and particularly if it was a painful, dangerous and expensive procedure) while men didn't, then this difference in what men and women had to do would be a feminist issue.

if you want yer baps done, luv, you get them done. don't live your life for other people.

Just to throw this out of kilter, a recent survey which i read this week showed that men are having more cosmetic surgery than ever.

And I have lost count of the number of spam emails offering to make my penis larger.

I think you so-called feminists are actually doing a disservice to your sisters; you are assuming they are befuddled, brainwashed and cannot think for themselves.

Spanx do pants and T-shirts for men now. Men do this stuff too. Think feminism isn't really the point anymore. Body anxiety becoming a unisex issue.

cross post with purplep.

ava - thanks! arn't i on a roll today!

i would like my teeth whitened :-) but thats vanity plain and simple.

puple - re your last paragraph at 20:55 - yes that is exactly what ithink!

it's still about 90% women stats from random google. Not quite equal yet....

when it's 50:50 or even 60:40 I'll accept it's unisex.

go for it
It's your body

Feminism means we have choices - if you want to do it, go for it. It's your life : )

I am with SmallWhiteCat on this one.

I love my make up, I watch my weight, my hair always looks nice, my clothes are stylish. I do however draw the line at dangerously and invasively abusing myself for ANY reason.

There is a fine line between plastic surgery and abuse to my mind. Ok, so a boob job to achieve a 'b' cup may not be most radical but it is nevertheless the thin end of the wedge. That might sound extreme but there are plenty of examples of graphically irresponsible plastic surgery ot there. The consenting victims may well be of questionable mental health. Are greedy surgeons committing assaults and/or grevious/actual bodily harm on those who are deluded and/or suffering from physiological conditions? Michael Jackson's face anyone? It is a disgusting trade imho. I personally would not want to play any part in helping to support, finance or sustain it.

My boobs were always a B, then when I stopped breastfeeding they shirivelled to an A.

They were (too) small (for my 6ft frame), but I spent some money on very good quality bras, with a bit of wonderbra effect.

It took a while, but after 2 years my boobs are now a B-C cup. Very odd, but friends have told me this happened to them.

So my advice:

• give yourself some more time.

Also, even in my shrivelled days I never considered surgery as I just could NOT cut into a healthy body, and I guess I am also a bit of a feminist and whilst I like looking like a woman, I am not too focussed on "trying to please". I also had a scare with a lump, and that put things into perspective for me.

Also, at my age (38) I have learned that you can be sexy with small boobs too.

Still, I feel your pain, but give it time.

great posts from SmallWhiteCat

i'm sorry smallwhite cat but that old presumption that if you want to change something then as soon as its fixed you will obsess about something else is exactly that, a presumption. i daresay this does happen with a few women because mental health issues often manifest themselves in perceived physical imperfections. BUT i don't think this is the average. we don't all come striaght home from a great new hairdo and immediately start criticising something else do we?

i've got a big tattoo. it was very painful and invasive to have done but very longed for and desired. i've had it 4.5 years and barely given a second thought to getting another one or more piercings/similar.

also i have to agree with another poster who suggested that surgery post breasfeeding is more of a corrective issue than cosmetic. if you had a normal nose for years and then were in an accident and it was broken so you paid for a nose job would that be considered an anti feminist issue? would it?

again, it is the unequal pressure on men and women that is the feminist issue, not whether person X decides to have surgery, and that would apply when it comes to nose jobs for broken noses too. Did Stephen Fry ever get a nose job, because he certainly went around with a wonky nose for years in a way that a female actress would not be able to get away with, don't know if he still has it. Some women would say 'sod it, I don't want surgery, I don't care if my nose is wonky', others would think 'my appearance is important to me, I will have my nose fixed as it was before' and that is entirely their decision, but it is naive to think their decision has not been affected to some degree by the lack of gender equality in society: a woman is likely to find her life more damaged by the broken nose than a man is because men are generally not treated well or badly according to their appearance as much as women.

well in that case reconstructive surgery following breast cancer is a feminist issue.